Who mentioned great literature?
Religion & the meaning of life
- Lucky Lucan
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Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
- springrain
- I'm on 3000; na na, na na na
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Although I mentioned it earlier, I too found The Alchemist rather simplistic, but, if read as an allegory (which much of the King James Bible should be considered as, too) its very simplicity is its beauty. As it went on, though, the parts when the wind & the sun were talking to the narrator were a bit too simplistic.
As the existentialists have been mentioned, it's worth considering the negative viewpoint of life having no meaning at all.
Sartre's Huis Clos deals with the idea that 'Hell is other people'.
Beckett's As It Is suggests that we crawl through the slime, surrounded by disappointment. Endgame has two characters living in dustbins, while the central character struggles to find his place in society.
Pinter's trilogy: The Birthday Party, The Caretaker & The Homecoming all paint a picture of life swimming against a tide of threat, violence, humiliation, lack of fulfillment & confusion.
I don't subscribe to the above views (love the plays, though) as the search for higher realms of awareness/consciousness overwhelms everything.
As the existentialists have been mentioned, it's worth considering the negative viewpoint of life having no meaning at all.
Sartre's Huis Clos deals with the idea that 'Hell is other people'.
Beckett's As It Is suggests that we crawl through the slime, surrounded by disappointment. Endgame has two characters living in dustbins, while the central character struggles to find his place in society.
Pinter's trilogy: The Birthday Party, The Caretaker & The Homecoming all paint a picture of life swimming against a tide of threat, violence, humiliation, lack of fulfillment & confusion.
I don't subscribe to the above views (love the plays, though) as the search for higher realms of awareness/consciousness overwhelms everything.
'History is a set of lies agreed upon.'
Attributed to Napoleon
Attributed to Napoleon
Complicated people look for complicated answers yet the answer maybe simple & made to be complicated!
- spitthedog
- Is the World Outside still there ?
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Life is like a box of chocolates - Forrest Gump
Isn't it likely that Religion was created by people because there is no meaning of life?
It allows people to bear the unbearable, to tolerate the intolerable. A crutch for the humble peasantry vs a speeding i don't give a **** SUV.
In general i'd say it's likely the popularity of religion in history has moved inversely to the wealth of the nations.
Japan is an example of this with Buddhism which has died out over the last few decades. For the same reason Nationalism is on the rise in certain countries in Europe as economies are now struggling.
Quote ;
''Jacques Lacan, the French psychoanalyst, taught that, in psychological terms, the social world really is a fraud. All of the meaning we attribute to our human creations, including language itself, has no value beyond its own reference, for, as Lacan was fond of saying, “There is no Other of the Other.” 1 By this he meant that there is no absolute meaning that authorizes human meaning.
The world offers itself to us in full spectacle, but there is nothing to see except a deluded man who calls himself “Emperor” standing naked in the street.[3] Thus we have a world filled with
Advertisers and politicians who don’t fulfill their promises;
Artists who claim to produce “sacred art” but who really are using secular humanism to undermine and pervert the fundamental values of the Christian Faith;
Authority figures who have risen to their own personal level of incompetence;
Educational systems that fail to educate;
An entertainment industry that brainwashes us and our children into the deepest levels of perversion, all in the guise of making us “feel good”;
Health care systems that know only illness and neither understand nor care about health;
Justice systems that are unjust;
Musicians who claim to produce “sacred music” but who really are injecting Satanic discord into contemplative beauty;
Parents who don’t know how to parent;
Political activists who use intolerance and protest to demand tolerance and peace;
And, yes, bishops, priests, deacons, and religious who refuse to defend the true faith but instead stay within the box of social fraud, playing its games to protect their own pride and to seek their own social status''
PS, what ever happened to Stroppychops on K440?
Isn't it likely that Religion was created by people because there is no meaning of life?
It allows people to bear the unbearable, to tolerate the intolerable. A crutch for the humble peasantry vs a speeding i don't give a **** SUV.
In general i'd say it's likely the popularity of religion in history has moved inversely to the wealth of the nations.
Japan is an example of this with Buddhism which has died out over the last few decades. For the same reason Nationalism is on the rise in certain countries in Europe as economies are now struggling.
Quote ;
''Jacques Lacan, the French psychoanalyst, taught that, in psychological terms, the social world really is a fraud. All of the meaning we attribute to our human creations, including language itself, has no value beyond its own reference, for, as Lacan was fond of saying, “There is no Other of the Other.” 1 By this he meant that there is no absolute meaning that authorizes human meaning.
The world offers itself to us in full spectacle, but there is nothing to see except a deluded man who calls himself “Emperor” standing naked in the street.[3] Thus we have a world filled with
Advertisers and politicians who don’t fulfill their promises;
Artists who claim to produce “sacred art” but who really are using secular humanism to undermine and pervert the fundamental values of the Christian Faith;
Authority figures who have risen to their own personal level of incompetence;
Educational systems that fail to educate;
An entertainment industry that brainwashes us and our children into the deepest levels of perversion, all in the guise of making us “feel good”;
Health care systems that know only illness and neither understand nor care about health;
Justice systems that are unjust;
Musicians who claim to produce “sacred music” but who really are injecting Satanic discord into contemplative beauty;
Parents who don’t know how to parent;
Political activists who use intolerance and protest to demand tolerance and peace;
And, yes, bishops, priests, deacons, and religious who refuse to defend the true faith but instead stay within the box of social fraud, playing its games to protect their own pride and to seek their own social status''
PS, what ever happened to Stroppychops on K440?
"I don't care what the people are thinking, i ain't drunk i'm just drinking"
God? Maybe
Religions? All nonsense
Many religious people were brainwashed as children by their family who were brainwashed when they were children. Some people make a switch in religion after a sign or perhaps hearing voices in their head. One step away from the insane asylum.
The fact religions are all bullshit can be reached through simple logic and reading Dawkins or others isn't necessary to reach that conclusion.
Religions? All nonsense
Many religious people were brainwashed as children by their family who were brainwashed when they were children. Some people make a switch in religion after a sign or perhaps hearing voices in their head. One step away from the insane asylum.
The fact religions are all bullshit can be reached through simple logic and reading Dawkins or others isn't necessary to reach that conclusion.
"Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't teach, teach English."
Credit Jacked Camry & LTO
Credit Jacked Camry & LTO
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This is why Camus stands out for me. In common with other atheists, he'd say that your last point is a sad, inauthentic human need for a delusion to make sense where there isn't any. In addition, any moral action is ultimately selfish since the motivation is to placate/please/bribe/unite with a higher authority for self-centred beneficial ends.springrain wrote: As the existentialists have been mentioned, it's worth considering the negative viewpoint of life having no meaning at all.
Sartre's Huis Clos deals with the idea that 'Hell is other people'.
Beckett's As It Is suggests that we crawl through the slime, surrounded by disappointment. Endgame has two characters living in dustbins, while the central character struggles to find his place in society.
Pinter's trilogy: The Birthday Party, The Caretaker & The Homecoming all paint a picture of life swimming against a tide of threat, violence, humiliation, lack of fulfillment & confusion.
I don't subscribe to the above views (love the plays, though) as the search for higher realms of awareness/consciousness overwhelms everything.
Most existentialists find meaning (authenticity) elsewhere; despite the famous line from Sartre which is commonly taken out of context, in fact he found meaning in other people, which threw him into Marxism (causing Camus to split from him). In The Plague initially people react to the disaster with selfish materialist and spiritual responses but eventually give those up. Once they realise that they are all doomed to die in isolation from the rest of the world they begin to support each other. They behave with true altruism in the full awareness that life and death are absurd, pointless, meaningless. This is the stance of the true hero, with no belief system to give succour.
Actually the deepest elements of Buddhism, particularly in Tibetan and Zen take you there too, with intense practices confronting you with the full harsh realisation of your own mortality. In the Old Testament Ecclesiastes and Job have a similar stark message, albeit sugar-coated with contradictory hopeful bits to help the masses miss the point, the same as applies to pop Buddhism.
I came, I argued, I'm out
Birds fly onto my balcony & steal the reeds, the little thieves, they are stealing for there needs with no respect of my deeds.
Is it what we have gained or what have given and what is ours to give.
If it is not the destination but the journey then time is precious so time given is a great gift!
Can the journey begin again?
Has anybody had a strange experience that seems more than just coincidence???
Is it what we have gained or what have given and what is ours to give.
If it is not the destination but the journey then time is precious so time given is a great gift!
Can the journey begin again?
Has anybody had a strange experience that seems more than just coincidence???
[quote="andyinasia"][quote="springrain"]
As the existentialists have been mentioned, it's worth considering the negative viewpoint of life having no meaning at all.
This is why Camus stands out for me. In common with other atheists, he'd say that your last point is a sad, inauthentic human need for a delusion to make sense where there isn't any. In addition, any moral action is ultimately selfish since the motivation is to placate/please/bribe/unite with a higher authority for self-centred beneficial ends.
Good excuse to be selfish!
I am going to buy a cat that can feed it's self on thieving birds.
As the existentialists have been mentioned, it's worth considering the negative viewpoint of life having no meaning at all.
This is why Camus stands out for me. In common with other atheists, he'd say that your last point is a sad, inauthentic human need for a delusion to make sense where there isn't any. In addition, any moral action is ultimately selfish since the motivation is to placate/please/bribe/unite with a higher authority for self-centred beneficial ends.
Good excuse to be selfish!
I am going to buy a cat that can feed it's self on thieving birds.
- springrain
- I'm on 3000; na na, na na na
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Reminds of a Sartre play about a young idealist who swallows Nazism hook, line & sinker. Forget the name.andyinasia wrote: This is why Camus stands out for me. In The Plague initially people react to the disaster with selfish materialist and spiritual responses but eventually give those up. Once they realise that they are all doomed to die in isolation from the rest of the world they begin to support each other. They behave with true altruism in the full awareness that life and death are absurd, pointless, meaningless. This is the stance of the true hero, with no belief system to give succour.
I love Camus, too. Your interpretation is interesting because he spent most of his life fighting against oppression (presumably one imagines oppression of human development to be included). I think it was just after the war that he attended a European Federalist conference where he met George Orwell. By the time he wrote The Rebel, (I think a few years later than The Plague), he did appear to embrace the ‘moral superiority’ of a system known as syndicalism (a sort of cooperative system of running industry).
Also, come on, we have to regard the writings of such as Sartre, Camus, Pinter, Beckett as allegories, too. Does Beckett really mean we live in dustbins? The Plague was written during the occupation of the very place he was writing. At the end, I believe there is a life-affirming feel – Man is free, after all.
Even Mersault in The Outsider seems to experience a kind of inner peace when he is visited in prison by the priest. He has rejected the priest’s feeble offer of salvation and is content that he has never said anything at the trial that was not true. He is a man who cannot deceive.
Isn’t there even an owl (or some owl imagery) in the Plague?
Is it the Simpsons where someone says: 'Camus can do, but Sartre is smarter'? Ha ha ha
Ok, here’s a strange thing: so much literature refers to New World Order symbolism. 1984 & The Plague are but 2 examples. Kafka is another. Hamlet is full of it (suicide again – the central tenet of The Myth of Sisyphus). Everyone dies, but Horatio lives to tell the tale. Grounds for optimism – or a NWO?
'History is a set of lies agreed upon.'
Attributed to Napoleon
Attributed to Napoleon
Life is the meaning of life!Joon wrote:In my view, there is no reason for "Life" to be/exist. It's just there.
And only humans are trying to find a reason or a meaning to "life" while they are really just looking for a meaning to "their lives."
The only universal drivers I can think of are first the need to stop and prevent pain and second the pursuit of "feeling good," be it physical, sensory pleasure or mental, psychological, emotional well-being.
The Old Testament states that the earth was created in 7 days.
Yet the physicists state that it was created in less than a second.
A star that burns bright may collapse and take all light.
Time can not escape a black hole thou within time a star will be born.
Yet the physicists state that it was created in less than a second.
A star that burns bright may collapse and take all light.
Time can not escape a black hole thou within time a star will be born.
Last edited by Kuz on Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The wine tastes better after the first glass.metaleap wrote:So what you're sayin' is..
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You know your stuff better than I. Yes, after Camus fell out with Sartre he chummed up with Orwell and after the war they were leading lights in a group of intellectuals who were thinking through a European Community which fell apart when politicians hijacked the agenda. I believe he was an anarcho-syndicalist of the sort referenced in Monty Python and the Holy Grail!springrain wrote: I love Camus, too. Your interpretation is interesting because he spent most of his life fighting against oppression (presumably one imagines oppression of human development to be included). I think it was just after the war that he attended a European Federalist conference where he met George Orwell. By the time he wrote The Rebel, (I think a few years later than The Plague), he did appear to embrace the ‘moral superiority’ of a system known as syndicalism (a sort of cooperative system of running industry). [and so on and so forth] ....
As I re-read The Plague it did occur to me that there's a lot of mileage in comparing Camus with Orwell. I saw a lot of themes that dominate both Animal Farm and 1984. For me they seem very contrasting characters, with Orwell being your prosaic, stiff-upper-lip Englishman. It intrigues me that Orwell's books are tragedies with very bleak endings - Smith ending up a broken human. In contrast, Camus' doctor and other survivors come out as heroes even though their world is equally bleak and hopeless.
I came, I argued, I'm out
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