Hi Katz,
Yeah, I know-- and it grew tiring. I mean, why should I have to say over and over, "no really-- I am a woman" ? I guess they are surprised that any woman could be as open minded as I am. Whatever. By the way PM me with your ID over there, I am just curious.
Want to meet over a beer in a few weeks? Can't wait to get back.
Sir Fuckwit from www.km11.com
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I think Gov really hits it on the head. It really is a case of "apples and oranges". K440 and KM11 are two totally different boards and there seems to be little real crossover.
What I like about K440 is that most people on the board are united by a great fascination for Cambodia. Everyone seems to have various reasons for it but they all express it in the way that they talk of the country. I don't see that same love for Cambodia expressed universally at KM11. I have never really seen much in depth chat about Cambodia, the country, on KM11 and I think that is because very few of the readers spend regular time there. There have been some interesting threads on restuarants but that is about all.
I don't see much point in trying to goad them in coming onto this board or visa versa. It can be entertaining (re. Horse) but ultimately it is pointless as both sides have little time for the other.
Mac, thought your points were pretty much spot on.
VC
What I like about K440 is that most people on the board are united by a great fascination for Cambodia. Everyone seems to have various reasons for it but they all express it in the way that they talk of the country. I don't see that same love for Cambodia expressed universally at KM11. I have never really seen much in depth chat about Cambodia, the country, on KM11 and I think that is because very few of the readers spend regular time there. There have been some interesting threads on restuarants but that is about all.
I don't see much point in trying to goad them in coming onto this board or visa versa. It can be entertaining (re. Horse) but ultimately it is pointless as both sides have little time for the other.
Mac, thought your points were pretty much spot on.
VC
Pretty good analysis from Mac and the Gov, even I don't share your opinion about the GF. Granted, he's a cynical biaised magalomaniac old bastard, but he also probably has more wit in his little finger than all of us combined.
It's indeed easier to speak your mind and spill your guts to relative strangers, be it in a bar, on the phone or on a website.
Back in August last year I had to tone down my testimonies and edit some heavy stuff and personal reports on km11 since my ex-wife and current khmer GF found out about the website So I can understand the relative caution and discretion required by resident posters, or that they wouldn't want to be seen on km11 the way you don't want to be spotted in a bar of dubious repute in your own backyard.
This said, conversations on se-asiaboard/km11 tend to be a lot more entertaining and free flowing, precisely as we don't have to watch our every word for fear of what our bosses/colleagues/mates/folk will be thinking. Being an expat doesn't prevent you from posting on se-a, the main distinction in this case would be more akin to working expat vs "idle" one.
Horse: Katz, Myiad or myself carry the same ID on both sites so I don't get your point. The only one with a "double" nametag that I know of would be.. hmm .. Shadowfaxx. Or maybe some of you guys that have been posting on se-a under an alias, for confidentiality's sake...
It's indeed easier to speak your mind and spill your guts to relative strangers, be it in a bar, on the phone or on a website.
Back in August last year I had to tone down my testimonies and edit some heavy stuff and personal reports on km11 since my ex-wife and current khmer GF found out about the website So I can understand the relative caution and discretion required by resident posters, or that they wouldn't want to be seen on km11 the way you don't want to be spotted in a bar of dubious repute in your own backyard.
This said, conversations on se-asiaboard/km11 tend to be a lot more entertaining and free flowing, precisely as we don't have to watch our every word for fear of what our bosses/colleagues/mates/folk will be thinking. Being an expat doesn't prevent you from posting on se-a, the main distinction in this case would be more akin to working expat vs "idle" one.
Horse: Katz, Myiad or myself carry the same ID on both sites so I don't get your point. The only one with a "double" nametag that I know of would be.. hmm .. Shadowfaxx. Or maybe some of you guys that have been posting on se-a under an alias, for confidentiality's sake...
The horse said:
They're scared you'll verbally trample on them horse if they reveal which neighbourhood they're from... ...as for me, any neighbourhood I wander into is bound to seem tame, having just moved into the worst one in town. Iubit is now a resident of "The Building"... I must be crazy...Katz, why do you and nearly every km11 forum member use different identities when on this board?
You seem rather proud of living in The Building, Iubit. Is that your idea of "nirvana"? I really feel so sad when I see people ending up in situations like that because of their delusions about hos. I know exactly what you're feeling, and that makes it that much worse. Friends over hos. That's all I can say.
Listen guys, you can call me all the bad names you want, and give me any label you like; I probably deserve a lot of them. I haven't played the game of life as intelligently as I ought to have recently, and have caused a lot of problems for myself and others. But please don't attack her, just because you think you can get at me, and hurt me, by doing so. For sure you will succeed. If you want to stick the knife into Iubit and then twist it, the way to do so is by insulting her. But it's not fair, and she doesn't deserve it. She's been through hell in her short life, and has only ever considered the feelings of others, and their expectations of her; never her own needs or welfare. She's the most self-sacrificing person I've ever met; and if that crime deserves nasty labels, then I really am at a loss to understand the system of values being applied here.
So, she smokes yama; she finds it a comfort, but actually it only hurts her more. If people who have been used and abused since childhood, and yet have retained a thoughtful, caring, selfless personality, then turn to drugs as a way of escaping from themselves, and damage themselves even more, shouldn't we sympathise with them rather than stigmatise them? So, I'm making excuses for her; maybe I do that too much and should apply a tougher kind of love, firmly but gently attempting to draw her away from her habit. True. But God knows, if YOU were ever unfortunate enough to find yourself in a life situation where you had been put through hell, and in a moment of weakness developed a habit that was stigmatised, or found that it was necessary for you do to something that would leave you open to stigmatisation, you too would hope that there would be a few people around who would make excuses for you, and wouldn't utterly condemn you, regard you with contempt, and attach derogatory epithets to you. Perhaps the people making excuses for you are not your best friends; they would be those who could help you to escape from your habit and the pain that had caused to it; but at least they are a lot fairer to you, and have a better understanding of you and your situation than the ones who take pleasure in kicking people who are down by attaching insulting and hurtful labels to them; that's the morality of the kindergarten, the jungle, or the mindless thug.
Honestly guys; she really doesn't deserve it. She's just a nice kid who's had some really lousy breaks. Attaching insulting labels to people surely goes hand in hand with blaming them in some way for "choosing" the behaviour they are involved in. I mean, when my girlfriend was 10 years old, and she had the option of staying with Gordon, who beat her if she didn't have sex with him, or telling her mother she wouldn't do something that was putting food in the mouths of her family, she really did make a moral choice, and career decision, did she?; "Oh, as a mature adult of 10, I think I will dispense with the accepted social norms and choose to be a prostitute; I do not care that this is regarded as incorrect behaviour; by wilfully breaking society's rules I will undoubtedly be stigmatised; but I accept that as the price I will pay for the wild and rebellious life I have wantonly chosen to live - I have mapped my course!" Yeah, like really guys, what a bad girl at 10 years old to decide she wanted to be a "hoe". Do you really believe that?
As for her behaviour now, it is less "hoe-like" than any SE-Asian girlfriend I've ever had - and she's more beautiful than the lot of them put together. God knows what she sees in me - maybe it's the kindness and understanding I've always shown her, maybe she likes having me around to make excuses for her, maybe she enjoys, for once in her life, being loved unconditionally. All I know is that I receive a never-ending stream of kindness and consideration, and that for the tiny amount of money I'm often able to provide her and her family with now, it's remarkable how much ends up being spent on me.
Mac; I'm not proud of living in "The Building" - it's more like hell than nirvana for sure, and I'm out of there as soon as I get the chance. Forced on me by circumstances I'm afraid; all I was doing was making the best of things by finding something positive about staying there; using it to add a bit of colour to myself; not so much the spice of the adventure yarn as the curdling blood of the horror movie. It just amazes me sometimes the bizarre turns my life takes; I would never have dreamt I could end up living in such a place. I'm not proud of it, but I'm glad to have experienced it. When I was a child I always wanted to live my life weirdly; not in the same way that others did. I was attracted by darkness, and by bright, dazzling beauty. My road has had much of both, and I hope the building is just another stage in that strange journey, and not the the final dimly-lit passageway to the bottomless pit. It certainly felt that way this morning with bats flying in my face as I negotiated my way around the nameless junk and rats nests littering the corridor. Anyway, no "ho" can be blamed for Iubit ending up there, be it good or bad, something to be proud of, or something to be ashamed of; and a certain sweet girl can't either. The blame or the praise lies all with Iubit, and the manic way he has conducted his life recently. Maybe I should grow up eh - but you see that's just what I never expected, or wanted to do... ...too boring eh?
So, she smokes yama; she finds it a comfort, but actually it only hurts her more. If people who have been used and abused since childhood, and yet have retained a thoughtful, caring, selfless personality, then turn to drugs as a way of escaping from themselves, and damage themselves even more, shouldn't we sympathise with them rather than stigmatise them? So, I'm making excuses for her; maybe I do that too much and should apply a tougher kind of love, firmly but gently attempting to draw her away from her habit. True. But God knows, if YOU were ever unfortunate enough to find yourself in a life situation where you had been put through hell, and in a moment of weakness developed a habit that was stigmatised, or found that it was necessary for you do to something that would leave you open to stigmatisation, you too would hope that there would be a few people around who would make excuses for you, and wouldn't utterly condemn you, regard you with contempt, and attach derogatory epithets to you. Perhaps the people making excuses for you are not your best friends; they would be those who could help you to escape from your habit and the pain that had caused to it; but at least they are a lot fairer to you, and have a better understanding of you and your situation than the ones who take pleasure in kicking people who are down by attaching insulting and hurtful labels to them; that's the morality of the kindergarten, the jungle, or the mindless thug.
Honestly guys; she really doesn't deserve it. She's just a nice kid who's had some really lousy breaks. Attaching insulting labels to people surely goes hand in hand with blaming them in some way for "choosing" the behaviour they are involved in. I mean, when my girlfriend was 10 years old, and she had the option of staying with Gordon, who beat her if she didn't have sex with him, or telling her mother she wouldn't do something that was putting food in the mouths of her family, she really did make a moral choice, and career decision, did she?; "Oh, as a mature adult of 10, I think I will dispense with the accepted social norms and choose to be a prostitute; I do not care that this is regarded as incorrect behaviour; by wilfully breaking society's rules I will undoubtedly be stigmatised; but I accept that as the price I will pay for the wild and rebellious life I have wantonly chosen to live - I have mapped my course!" Yeah, like really guys, what a bad girl at 10 years old to decide she wanted to be a "hoe". Do you really believe that?
As for her behaviour now, it is less "hoe-like" than any SE-Asian girlfriend I've ever had - and she's more beautiful than the lot of them put together. God knows what she sees in me - maybe it's the kindness and understanding I've always shown her, maybe she likes having me around to make excuses for her, maybe she enjoys, for once in her life, being loved unconditionally. All I know is that I receive a never-ending stream of kindness and consideration, and that for the tiny amount of money I'm often able to provide her and her family with now, it's remarkable how much ends up being spent on me.
Mac; I'm not proud of living in "The Building" - it's more like hell than nirvana for sure, and I'm out of there as soon as I get the chance. Forced on me by circumstances I'm afraid; all I was doing was making the best of things by finding something positive about staying there; using it to add a bit of colour to myself; not so much the spice of the adventure yarn as the curdling blood of the horror movie. It just amazes me sometimes the bizarre turns my life takes; I would never have dreamt I could end up living in such a place. I'm not proud of it, but I'm glad to have experienced it. When I was a child I always wanted to live my life weirdly; not in the same way that others did. I was attracted by darkness, and by bright, dazzling beauty. My road has had much of both, and I hope the building is just another stage in that strange journey, and not the the final dimly-lit passageway to the bottomless pit. It certainly felt that way this morning with bats flying in my face as I negotiated my way around the nameless junk and rats nests littering the corridor. Anyway, no "ho" can be blamed for Iubit ending up there, be it good or bad, something to be proud of, or something to be ashamed of; and a certain sweet girl can't either. The blame or the praise lies all with Iubit, and the manic way he has conducted his life recently. Maybe I should grow up eh - but you see that's just what I never expected, or wanted to do... ...too boring eh?
No one, as far as I can see, is applying any negative value judgements to you or your girl.What I see, and pardon the presumptuousness of what's to follow, is someone feeling very defensive. Personally, I don't think less of either of you for the situatiuon that you're in, Iubit. But you've got to admit that it seems like a pretty dismal situation, and I'm just feel that it's not one anyone should be putting himself into. There's something about falling in love with one of these girls that leads people to get into these very insular mindsets. Then the whole world looks like an enemy, and there's only you and your girl, and the obsession becomes destructive. It sort of reminds me of Shakespeare's "Antony and Cleopatra" or even Dryden's adaptation "All for Love." Two people, self-absorbed, with their friends telling them that there's something wrong with the picture. But they don't only ignore everyone. They actually react with hostility to the basically benign (compassionate) intentions of those friends. Listen, I know what it's like, bro. But you have to remember never to let love cut you off from your friends. In this crazy fucking life we're all living, in which everything seems disgusting sometimes, there's nothing but your friends to keep you in touch with sanity. Don't make them enemies. Then you well and truly are lost.Iubit wrote:Listen guys, you can call me all the bad names you want, and give me any label you like; I probably deserve a lot of them. [...] But please don't attack her, just because you think you can get at me, and hurt me, by doing so. [...] If you want to stick the knife into Iubit and then twist it, the way to do so is by insulting her. But it's not fair, and she doesn't deserve it. [...] She's the most self-sacrificing person I've ever met; and if that crime deserves nasty labels, then I really am at a loss to understand the system of values being applied here.
Right. No one is saying otherwise. At least, not here, not yet. But without saying anything negative about her, or discounting the fact that she's had a rough life, I'm concerned for the effects that it's having on you. Seriously, you have the aura of a martyr. That's a name a lot of people would covet. But I think it's far less heroic than it seems.So, she smokes yama; she finds it a comfort, but actually it only hurts her more. If people who have been used and abused since childhood, and yet have retained a thoughtful, caring, selfless personality, then turn to drugs as a way of escaping from themselves, and damage themselves even more, shouldn't we sympathise with them rather than stigmatise them?
Regardless, this is your interpretation of what's happening. It might be making excuses. It's probably more complicated. But all that is sort of irrelevant. Because I know you can sit around forever justifying, rationalising, moralising about the problem. But what it comes down to is this: she's fucking wrecking herself, and you're fucking wrecking yourself, and there's really nothing good in that at all.
No. Of course not. But she's not 10 years old anymore. I know you can see her as a product of her life. But there does come a time when doing that is just a crutch, and excuse, and you have to take responsibility for what you're decisions in the here-and-now. You've made it your mission to save this girl, and you identify with her so closely that you're trying to assume the burden of her pain. That's beyond "knight in shining armour." That's Christ complex. If she doesn't want to be saved, then you're just ruining your life for . . . what?Attaching insulting labels to people surely goes hand in hand with blaming them in some way for "choosing" the behaviour they are involved in. I mean, when my girlfriend was 10 years old, and she had the option of staying with Gordon, who beat her if she didn't have sex with him, or telling her mother she wouldn't do something that was putting food in the mouths of her family, she really did make a moral choice, and career decision, did she?; "Oh, as a mature adult of 10, I think I will dispense with the accepted social norms and choose to be a prostitute; I do not care that this is regarded as incorrect behaviour; by wilfully breaking society's rules I will undoubtedly be stigmatised; but I accept that as the price I will pay for the wild and rebellious life I have wantonly chosen to live - I have mapped my course!" Yeah, like really guys, what a bad girl at 10 years old to decide she wanted to be a "hoe". Do you really believe that?
Now you're sounding like you're dependent on her. Like you need her. Like you should feel grateful to her. Come on, give yourself a little more credit. Look at the effect of this scene on your self-image, dude. When love makes you feel utterly inadequit, like a piece of shit who should thank the other person for even the smallest kindness, then you've really lost a sense of proportion and reality. I'm sure your mates on km11, for whom this seems to be written judging by the number of allusions that don't work on this forum, would love to see you sorted out. Start listening to your friends. I've always found they're a lot more objective, neutral, impartial, whatever than you think. It may sound harsh sometimes. But it's often from a sense of frustration, and of hopelessness, watching someone lose everything he has to a destructive relationship. You've got decisions to make, dude. But moving in The Building indicates that you're moving down all the time. And it won't be long before you hit bottom from there.God knows what she sees in me - maybe it's the kindness and understanding I've always shown her, maybe she likes having me around to make excuses for her, maybe she enjoys, for once in her life, being loved unconditionally.
I really am being sincere.
Mac
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And Strider is Strider...
Iubit,
I was never one of the crew suggesting you go back to England but have you considered maybe a respite in Bangkok to see if you can get anything going there? How difficult would it be to get Heidi to the Big Mango? Geez man, "the building?" I've screwed in ten dollar hotels in Tijuana, Mexico nicer than that place.
Iubit,
I was never one of the crew suggesting you go back to England but have you considered maybe a respite in Bangkok to see if you can get anything going there? How difficult would it be to get Heidi to the Big Mango? Geez man, "the building?" I've screwed in ten dollar hotels in Tijuana, Mexico nicer than that place.