Km11 . . . Warped sex-tourist perspectives

This is a free speech zone where you can discuss and debate everything Cambodia related whether you're a dyed in the wool leftist, a liberal or somewhere to right of Attila the Hun. This is also where you get to read the news the local media suppresses.

Km11 . . . Warped sex-tourist perspectives

Postby Mac » Sun Nov 28, 2004 2:29 am

First example, from "Disaster - House Closures" thread. The notion that it's a country full of lying, cheating, stealing snakes.

One of the things that is different in any poorer country is their take on the truth. The truth tends to be whatever is in their best interest.

A shockingly reckelss generalization.

This policy runs from the very top to the very bottom which is why it is hard to gather reliable information about anything.

So, from the rich to the poor? Meaning, even the rich people in a poor country are liars out of self-interest? I suppose he's got a point when you look at "gathering reliable information" about, say, how much things cost. Of course, most things don't have a set cost, and local shoppers know that too, but self-interest probably plays a big role in the fact that foreigners who are dealing with something for the first time feel rather lost and helpless. But I fail to see how you can extend that to the claim that people in poor countries don't value truth.

The point is everyone will lie to you in a heartbeat because truth has very little value here.

The examples he lists are telling: a taxi-girl, a moto driver, and a hotel employee. I wouldn't mind debating some questions with those guys. But so many of them seemed so affected by their experiences with whores that their whole view of the country is just warped.

I can see some guys getting lied to by whores, and taxi drivers, and the dudes at cheap short-time hotels. But to then generalize, and claim that Cambodians have no regard for truth because they're poor, is just demented.

He's right: those people are lying to him out of self-interest because he's an ignorant foreigner. But they're not typical of Khmers. I wonder if he's ever been out into the provinces, where people will come up to you out of curiosity, and go out of their way to make you feel welcome, and expect nothing at all in return. I wonder if he's ever had personal relationships with university students, office girls, or business people.


Keeping face has great value however so don't expect too many people to say to you sorry or that they were wrong.

Everyone brings up keeping face, as though it's the same thing as lying. They're totally different concepts. If someone's made a mistake, you keep face by ignoring it to prevent everyone, not only the one who's made the mistake, from feeling humiliated.

I can just imagine some sorry fucks flying in to Phnom Penh, having several little relationships withh whores every year, and then feeling like the whole country is a shithole of lying, cheating little snakes.

To say that "everyone will lie to you in a heartbeat" is perhaps more a reflection about who YOU are than who EVERYONE ELSE in Cambodia is.
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Postby _chaos_ » Sun Nov 28, 2004 4:47 am

An angry red font, and selective quotes from a post ? Surely this is not the Mac that we know and love.

A beacon of sanity in a world of madness, common sense in a world of perplection......
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Postby Mac » Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:19 am

Katz,

Points taken. I mentioned the thread from which the quotes were taken. But I should have mentioned that they were all from one post by Johnboy, whose posts are often well-written and intelligent.

I'm not trying to put all the members of km11 into a single category. You read my post on the other thread, and that pretty much sums up my thoughts on both forums.

I suppose the title of this thread could be misleading. I was just pointing out one example of a post that I thought represents a tendency some posters on km11 have to make generalisations about Cambodia based on their experiences with its whores.

I take the criticisms levelled against 440 by km11 members seriously. Here, I wasn't trying to attack km11, ignore the diversity of its membership, or foment another cross-forum conflict. I was just trying to point out a certain attitude, and a way of looking at things, that I find unfortunately common there and even among certain segments of the Phnom Penh expatriate community.

I also mentioned on that other thread that the "brotherhood" attitude over there has some postive qualities. But often it seems like crude backslapping that reinforces weird views regarding NGOs, women, culture, and all sorts of stuff. I just happened upon this example today, and was going to reply there, but figured it'd be received better here.

Regards,

Mac
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Postby kimcheemonster » Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:52 am

is KM11 a website? What is the web address?
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Postby antifa7 » Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:51 am

km11.com
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Postby wasabi » Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:22 am

Johnboy didn't claim his post was the product of a statistical study so I think it was probably just an exaggerated view of his personal experiences. There's no arguing that there are plenty of con artists in SEAsia and there's no arguing that exaggerations play a big role in these forums. I mean come on . . . I know that Cambodians love karaoke but one particular thread in 440 made it seem as if Cambodians spend half of their lives in front of a mic. :-)

Speaking of exaggerations . . . On my last trip to Cambodia, a friend had just returned from a meeting with the Korean Ambassador to Cambodia and the Ambassador's advice was, "If any Korean National approaches you in Cambodia, walk away. There's an 80% chance that he's a con-artist." Not sure if he was kidding or not but . . .

My friend told us this story over drinks while introducing us to a pair of Korean business men. . . I tried to break up the akward silence with a forced, "ha ha ha" and I managed to compose the physical gestures for a laugh but my vocal chords wouldn't cooperate. So . . . more silence. :axe:
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