Is Sam Rainsy half-Vietnamese?

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Is Sam Rainsy half-Vietnamese?

Postby tsuyoshi » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:48 pm

Wikipedia says this:

Sam Rainsy's mother, In Em was quoted to be the first Cambodian woman to have completed the Baccalauréat exam and was reportedly of Vietnamese heritage.


Wikipedia is not always reliable, but they do give a source for this. It's just so mind-bogglingly unbelievable... is there any truth to this?
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Re: Is Sam Rainsy half-Vietnamese?

Postby Spigzy » Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:38 pm

He looks it, and I didn't get a free candle during the elections either - so sod it, he's as Nguyen as they get in my book!
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Re: Is Sam Rainsy half-Vietnamese?

Postby doktor_d » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:38 am

Difficult to say.. Not much info to find on his mother except for that BBC source.

On http://www.geni.com/search?search_type=people&names=%22sam+sary%22 his mother is listed as "Em Thioun".

SAM SARY

Son of Nhean og Srey Puch
Husband of Em Thioun
Father of Sam Rainsy
Brother of Sarun; Bora; Maly; Doun Neth og 2 andre
Half brother of Yuthea


According to French wikipedia, his father was of Chinese origin and spent a lot of time in Kampong Trabek - "a district bordering Vietnam" where much of his family was located.

Here's a copy of a post of mine from 2 years back :

doktor_d wrote:Interesting. I wonder how much other questionable material is in the book. From the Rainsy party pages (from the book):

Young Rainsy lived an opulent life but then also lived through decline, when his father, a major politician, was brutally dismissed and had to live in hiding before being assassinated.


Bending the truth a little? Wikipedia has a quite different version of the history:

He was a close confidant of the then Prince Norodom Sihanouk but had a fall-out with the Prince when he was exposed in corruption, selling import licenses and a second time during his tenure as a Cambodian ambassador to London in 1958, for beating his impregnated female housemate. He was alleged to have beaten her so badly that she escaped to the protection of the London police. The scandal made headlines in the London tabloids and he was recalled to Cambodia and stripped of all of his duties. He disappeared mysteriously in 1962, presumably killed by the government or CIA agents, whom he was working for.

According to Time Magazine he brought an entourage of four woman who were his official wife, with their five children, including Sam Rainsy and three mistresses. Six months later Sam Sary was involved in another scandal when one of his female servants--Iv Eng Seng, who bore him a child went to the London police accusing him of severely beating her for "minor mistakes". By other accounts her name was Soeung Son Maly and she used to date Saloth Sar (Pol Pot) later dumping him for more prosperous Sam Sary. Sam Sary was recalled back to Phnom Penh, but not before he had put his side of the story to the British press. He admitted beating his servant,saying:

I corrected her by hitting her with a Cambodian string whip. I never hit her on the face, always across the back and the thighs—-a common sort of punishment in my country. He argued his right to do so because the embassy is "Cambodia in London."

After coming back to Cambodia Sam Sary became more and more anti-Sihanouk. Despite the risk of incurring Sihanouk's displeasure Sam Sary started a newspaper, openly critical of the Prince's policies. He tried to start his own political party but without success. His anti-Sihanouk activities were dubbed the Sam Sary Affairs.

Some commentators agree that Sam Sary worked with US Intelligence services, which he might have contacted in 1956 while visiting the US. On 13 January 1959 in speech delivered in Kampong Cham Sihanouk told his listeners that he knew about US intelligence plots to overthrow him. While this speech had not clearly implicated Sam Sary, a week after the speech was delivered he fled to Thailand. After a shadowy existence in exile he disappeared in 1962, probably put to death by his foreign paymasters.


This from History of Cambodia by Justin Corfield:

Image

From the Clandestine cold war in Asia 1945-65 by Richard James Aldrich,Gary D. Rawnsley,Ming-Yeh T. Rawnsley:

Image
With the backing of the VIETNAMESE government? :D ROTFL The more I find out about the Rainsy family, the less they impress me.

Here are 2 articles from Time Magazine in 1957/58 found on KHAMERLOGUE.. His comments are italicised.

CAMBODIA: Fathers betrayal passed down to sons

The story gives an interesting pattern of behavior between fathers versus fathers then sons versus sons. May be the Samsara cycle of Karma from fathers to sons. The relevance rang up in 1994 when Sam Raingsy, son of Sam Sary, was a minister of finance and had a fall out with Norodom Rannridh, Sihanouk’s son, the premier of Cambodia post 30 year war. The twist of fate seems running from past to present generation. The apparent political drama between Sam Raingsy and his estranged father went in circular motion with Sihanouk in the center. Both became monk after failures in personal politics. Other hand the same goes for Sihanouk and Rannridh, his estranged son’s betrayal against his own deranged politics.


CAMBODIA: Sam the Whipper
Time- 21/7/1958
In 1955, at the first nationwide beauty contest ever staged in the remote Indo-Chinese kingdom of Cambodia, Vice Premier Sam Sary was more than an interested spectator. The judges could choose only one winner, but Sary, a suave, Paris-educated ladies’ man, picked two. In no time at all, the judges’ first choice, coffee-skinned, sarong-clad Tep Kanary, was installed in Sary’s household. Later he added Iv Eng Seng, who was only an also-ran with judges, to his collection.

Hero in Trouble. In Cambodia, this was all right with everybody. Besides, Sam Sary was somebody special. As a delegate to the Geneva Conference that ended the Indo-Chinese war in 1954, Sam Sary had become a hero by leading the fight to prevent partition of Cambodia between Communists and nonCommunists. Prince Norodom Sihanouk, the King who resigned to become Cambodia’s Premier, rewarded his longtime friend and admirer (Sary is the Prince’s biographer) by promoting Sary to the vice-premiership.

Then trouble became “Sad Sam” Sary’s middle name (TIME, June 10, 1957). Last summer powerful political enemies complained that Sary was granting profitable import licenses to the wrong people, i.e., someone other than Sary’s accusers. Tears in eyes, Sary crawled before Sihanouk on hands and knees and asked to be relieved of his job. Tears in eyes, Sihanouk let him go. In remorse, Sary shaved his head and eyebrows, entered a Buddhist monastery.

In January of this year Sary was packed off into gilded exile as Cambodia’s Ambassador to Britain. Sary’s entourage: his formidable No. 1 wife, *(Thioun) Em, a plump suffragette, and their five children, ranging in age from 8 to 18; Tep Kanary, the young beauty queen, Sam’s No. 2 wife and No. 1 mistress; the other beauty, Iv Eng Seng, was either No. 3 wife or No. 2 mistress. To get around British sensibilities, Iv Eng Seng was listed as a governess. Whose business was it that she was also pregnant? Sam Sary called on Queen Elizabeth at Buckingham Palace and presented his credentials.

Switch of String. Last month the idyllic arrangement came to an abrupt end. Iv Eng Seng fled from the embassy with her month-old baby boy to a London nursing home and complained that Sary had severely beaten her “for minor mistakes.” Nonsense, replied Ambassador Sary gallantly: “I corrected her by hitting her with a Cambodian string whip. I never hit her on the face, always across the back and the thighs—a common sort of punishment in my country.”
Besides, said Sary, warming to his subject, he had every right under Cambodian law (he meant Cambodian custom) to whip the girl, because the embassy is “Cambodia in London.” Ambassador Sary got off a protest to the British Foreign Office, objecting to Iv Eng Seng’s complaints. Iv Eng Seng applied to Home Minister Richard A. (“Rab”) Butler, asking for asylum.

Disturbed over the bad name Sad Sam Sary was giving Cambodia, the government back in Phnom Penh, which is in the control of Sary’s rivals, whipped off a note of its own, retracting Sary’s protest to the Foreign Office as “null and void,” and noting: “The government considers that the infliction of corporal punishment on a maid, which is an offense under Cambodian law, is unworthy and incompatible with the functions of a representative abroad of the Head of State.”
Ambassador Sary wired back: “I maintain my protest and won’t let my country be insulted.”

The Cambodian government accused him of “grave disobedience,” ordered his recall, and issued a public explanation in Phnom Penh that “Sam Sary, helped by his wife (Thioun Em), savagely beat his pregnant concubine.” Complained Political Rival Sim Var: “Not only does he beat his concubine, but he tells the British press that this is customary in Cambodia, and now the British think we are a country of savages.”

As Sary went back home to crawl on his knees before Cambodia’s statuesque queen, a 35-year-old London barrister named John Averill—who was guided, he said, by a special vision from his Egyptian spirit, Ra-Men-Ra—stepped forward to rescue the governess in distress. He proposed and promptly married Iv Eng Seng. Averill is an ardent member of the “School of Universal Philosophy and Healing.” whose credo is no smoking, no meat eating, and no sex.

Related story: CAMBODIA:Tearful Times
Time 10/6/1957
Past the mint-and custard-colored roofs of Pnompenh’s lacquered palaces, a black Lincoln limousine sped south, bound for the rambling Cambodian seaside resort of Kep, 90 miles away by the green waters of the Gulf of Siam. Inside the big car, lonely and unhappy, sat cherub-faced Norodom Sihanouk, who gave up his throne to serve as Premier and had already resigned the premiership three times in less than two years. Behind him in Pnompenh Prince Sihanouk left with his father, King Suramarit, a statement of his intention to resign for the fourth time.

Whether or not he holds office, 34-year-old Prince Sihanouk will go right on running his country’s affairs. He has no other choice, for there is no one else in Cambodia’s scantily schooled and politically unsophisticated 4,500,000 populace who is up to the job. To Cambodians, Sihanouk is the government, and the government is Sihanouk.

Back to Work. A basically soft and kind young man, a devout Buddhist who abhors seeing any of his people suffering, Sihanouk has been through many changes of heart. The whole world cheered the way his representatives at the 1954 Geneva Conference withstood Communist attempts to subvert Cambodia by treaty. Then he fell under Nehru’s spell, and hinted darkly that U.S. aid ($120 million in three years) was being used as a device to take over Cambodia. He welcomed Chou En-lai to Pnompenh last November —but then became alarmed at the Communists’ evident strength in Cambodia’s economically powerful Chinese community. Recently, shocked by Russian intervention in Hungary, Sihanouk told his people that Communism is servitude, added: “Polish and Hungarian people have preferred to shed their blood.”

Sihanouk took back the premiership of his country only eight weeks ago, after sacking dutiful Premier San Yun in a welter of malicious and unproved charges that San Yun had been doling out valuable import licenses, mostly for high-priced consumer goods, to assorted ministers’ wives, political chairwarmers, and some ladies closely related to the royal family itself.

Sihanouk then appointed his longtime friend and adviser Sam Sary as special economic counselor to the government, with the personal rank of Prime Minister. But Sam Sary, even with his special rank, still approached the real Prime Minister, Sihanouk, only on his hands and knees. Sam Sary instituted a new economic policy of liberalized imports, but they, too, came under fire. Rival ministers whispered in Sihanouk’s ear that Sam Sary was being paid off by Chinese merchants, accused him of accepting diamond-studded platinum wristwatches and other bribes.

Off to the Monastery. Angrily, Sihanouk summoned a meeting of the Central Committee of his Sangkum Party, which controls all 91 seats in the National Assembly. Sihanouk listened, near to tears, while official after official accused Sam Sary of giving import licenses to the wrong people, i.e., someone else. The criticisms, said Sihanouk, were “unjustified.” Nevertheless, because they could “be construed as casting a shadow over the reputation of the Sangkum Party,” His Royal Highness forthwith annulled all import licenses.

Sad Sam Sary crawled up to Sihanouk on his hands and knees and asked to be relieved of his economic responsibilities. Distressed to see his friend in this state, Sihanouk acceded to the request. Sam Sary sadly crawled away, had his head and eyebrows shaved, and betook himself to a Buddhist monastery. Sihanouk was so upset himself that he burst into tears.

While Sam Sary meditated in his monastery, Sihanouk’s father, King Norodom Suramarit, held on to his son’s resignation as Premier, hoping he would reconsider. Last week Sihanouk did. He motored back to Phnom Penh, categorically denied there had ever been a government crisis, then set to work setting up a “National Investigation Commission” to combat Cambodia’s galloping corruption.


Here's some quotes from a telegram from the US embassy in Cambodia from 1959 that backs up the suggestion that Sary was backed by the South Vietnamese (GVN):

(Telegram From the Embassy in Cambodia to the Department of State 1 Phnom Penh , February 16, 1959—4 p.m.)

...Intelligence [1 line of source text not declassified] two months after Stung Treng incident revealed GVN was even at that time planning coup d’état to overthrow Sihanouk and desisted only when it became apparent it would not have US support. Evidence of more recent GVN support to Sam Sary plot and now to Dap Chhuon is conclusive. The countries supporting Western cause in SEA have been in position of football team with two quarterbacks calling opposite signals...


...Quite apart from this consideration, which is largely subjective, there is very real danger of revelations day by day which may cause an explosion. Discovery of Sam Sary plot by Soviets, Chinese, French and ourselves is adequate testimony to looseness of Vietnamese security. As far as Vietnam’s involvement with Dap Chhuon is concerned, there must be many people who know about shipment of mobile broadcasting station from Saigon to Siem Reap for use by Dap Chhuon in making his intended announcement to Cambodian people. Chances are that a considerable number also know about the shipment of the box of bars of gold to Dap Chhuon. The effort to increase Son Ngoc Thanh’s force in Thailand from 500 to 2,000 men cannot be done secretly. (In telegram yesterday2 I asked for review this problem with possibility additional representations Bangkok.) We may be faced any day by an RKG announcement of GVN involvement and with accompanying questions as to what we have been doing about it....
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Re: Is Sam Rainsy half-Vietnamese?

Postby doktor_d » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:44 am

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Re: Is Sam Rainsy half-Vietnamese?

Postby keeping_it_riel » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:57 am

Image

I wonder what happened to the maid who would be 76 if still alive.

And does Sam Rainsy have a 54 year old half brother living in the UK?
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Re: Is Sam Rainsy half-Vietnamese?

Postby NedK » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:06 am

I saw him eating Pho once. He was just gobbling it up, bowl after bowl. I offered him some Khmer food, all slathered with prahok, but he just said fuck that and knocked the bowl right onto the floor. Then he said something about how the only good use the Vietnamese had for Cambodians was to make them into little stands to boil water on for tea (?), and also that Angkor Wat belonged to Thailand. I didn't respond, it happened pretty fast. Weird conversation. Dude is totally Vietnamese though. Had that shifty look.
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Re: Is Sam Rainsy half-Vietnamese?

Postby doktor_d » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:06 pm

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Re: Is Sam Rainsy half-Vietnamese?

Postby keeping_it_riel » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:18 pm

Doc

The trail runs cold after 1967 and that is a long, long time ago. Anything could have happened. Imagine, for example, if mother and son had returned to Cambodia in the early 1970s.
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Re: Is Sam Rainsy half-Vietnamese?

Postby doktor_d » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:58 am

Yes that's possible of course.. Especially after she heard that Sam Sary had been offed and no longer was a threat to her. With a name like that the son would surely not have survived for long.
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Re: Is Sam Rainsy half-Vietnamese?

Postby doktor_d » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:54 pm

BTW, There was a good article on Sam Sary in the PPP (18-31 August, 2000)

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Re: Is Sam Rainsy half-Vietnamese?

Postby doktor_d » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:09 pm

And by the way KIR.. You were right.

Senaroth Averill died (disappeared?) in Cambodia in 1974 according to a French missing persons website (Personne disparue).

Most likely Iv Eng Seng died there too.

Image

Name: AVERILL
First names: Senaroth
Gender: Male
Date of birth: 26/03/1958
Hometown: London
Country of birth: UK

Occupation:?
Last employer?
Last address: School of Church Society, 23 Broadway Street, Sounthomptonshire - GB

Description:
Father's name: John AVERILL
Mother's Name: IV Eng Seng
Brothers and sisters:

Date of death: 1974 (1975-1978?)
Place of death: CAMBODIA

Circumstances of disappearance: Not seen since the Khmer Rouge regime took over in 1975.
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Re: Is Sam Rainsy half-Vietnamese?

Postby doktor_d » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:18 pm

Press photo (for sale on ebay)

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Sam Sary - Senaroth Averill - Iv Eng Seng

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Re: Is Sam Rainsy half-Vietnamese?

Postby keeping_it_riel » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:37 pm

Nice bit of detective work there Dok, well done.

So the son didn't even make his 20th birthday.

I wonder if he was carrying a UK passport.

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Re: Is Sam Rainsy half-Vietnamese?

Postby ken svay » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:51 pm

Great story this and well done the intrepid 440 investigators.
I will never vote for sam rainsy again.
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