Oh, you so funny !OrangeDragon wrote: ... if their gov't systems functioned properly ...
Price negotiation... opinions?
Some misconceptions here amd some astonishing ignorance from the chicken.
I once drove a tico and I was stopped by the police constantly.Later I drove a mercedes and I was never stopped,ever again.
I once drove a tico and I was stopped by the police constantly.Later I drove a mercedes and I was never stopped,ever again.
- vladimir
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Black screen tinting and a VIP sticker work wonders...but on your bifocals?ken svay wrote:Some misconceptions here amd some astonishing ignorance from the chicken.
I once drove a tico and I was stopped by the police constantly.Later I drove a mercedes and I was never stopped,ever again.
The inflation in this country! Soon $100 will bifocal!
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
I can't decide if I learned anything from your post or not....interesting, nonetheless....grober wrote:I had an interesting experience in the New (Central) Market yesterday. I wanted to buy a pair of Levis. I was with my Khmer girlfriend who is a seller (of women's clothes) in Toul Sangke market. We stopped at the first stall where we saw Levis on display. Of course there were no price markings on anything as per usual in Cambodia. I asked to see the jeans and I felt the cloth. I was told they were made in Thailand, which my gf regards as the best quality for clothes (Vietnam being mid-range and Cambodia sub-par). The cloth seemed to me to lack substance so I decided to look around. But I was interested to know their price just in case I could not find anything of better quality. The seller said 15. I said thank you I will look around. The seller lady insisted I give my price but I declined and tried to move on. My girlfriend was starting to squirm a bit and I could tell she thought I was committing a faux pas. We did move on but only as my smiling exit was met with some choice Khmer cursing from the seller lady. I did find some better quality Levis at another stall but later that morning my girlfriend and I had a long conversation about what had happened at the first stall. She told me that once a buyer (Khmer or barang) asks the price he has to buy or play the game of bargaining. She said if I was not sure I wanted those jeans I should not have asked for the price. Having asked the price she said the only way not to anger the seller is to counter-offer a ridiculously low price that she can refuse with no loss of face. My gf also told me that the situation had been made worse by the fact that this had all happened in the early part of the trading day when there were few customers around. She said sellers regard the first transaction an omen for the rest of the day. By not buying, I was condemning the seller to an entire bad trading day.
It seems to me that Khmer market sellers regard their prices as some valuable asset in itself that they will part with for free only with reluctance. In Toul Sangke, barang customers are so rare as to be insignificant to the sellers. Yet still no prices are displayed. There is no dual pricing and very little haggling. Buyers will look at an item and either move on or ask the price. The price is very reasonable (she works on a markup of about 25% from wholesale). Having asked for the price the buyer is expected to buy. Occasionally a buyer will ask for a number of prices of different items. This is met with righteous anger from my gf. She insists that if a barang came to her stall (it has not happened so far, ever) she would quote exactly the same price as for a Khmer. She admits however that sellers in the New Market will quote different prices depending on the identity of the buyer.
Either way, the Khmer sellers' thrift processes sound pretty stupid. I think I can understand why a barang has NEVER stopped by her shop now.....
- OrangeDragon
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i've noticed the "don't ask the price if you don't want it" thing too.
they also don't care for people window shopping. the phrase "no thank you, just looking" isn't well met. we had an hour to kill a couple of days ago waiting for a battery to be charged and i suggested we walk around and just look in the various shops near by, the wife looked at me like i was speaking greek. she had never even considered just browsing shops to know what they had in the event a need for something came up.
i have noticed a few of the flat shops near our house have moved to price tags. still some negotiation room, but not much.
they also don't care for people window shopping. the phrase "no thank you, just looking" isn't well met. we had an hour to kill a couple of days ago waiting for a battery to be charged and i suggested we walk around and just look in the various shops near by, the wife looked at me like i was speaking greek. she had never even considered just browsing shops to know what they had in the event a need for something came up.
i have noticed a few of the flat shops near our house have moved to price tags. still some negotiation room, but not much.
Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.
Robert H. Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette
Robert H. Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette
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woah! I'd never heard of what grobar was on about, yet at this moment I appear to be experiencing a bizarre example. I'm posting from a hospital - brought the wife in with a complaint; turns out she has a tumor. So we're offered two options for the course of treatment. One is 50% more expensive than the other. Naturally I want information on the merits of both. No, cannot. Tell us which one you choose, THEN we'll explain the procedure in detail . Blimey!
I came, I argued, I'm out
- OrangeDragon
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that's just fucking retarded. new hospital. and i hope all goes well :-/andyinasia wrote:woah! I'd never heard of what grobar was on about, yet at this moment I appear to be experiencing a bizarre example. I'm posting from a hospital - brought the wife in with a complaint; turns out she has a tumor. So we're offered two options for the course of treatment. One is 50% more expensive than the other. Naturally I want information on the merits of both. No, cannot. Tell us which one you choose, THEN we'll explain the procedure in detail . Blimey!
Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.
Robert H. Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette
Robert H. Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette
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I think that for a white person, walking into shops in third world countries and not buying anything and asking prices of things you don't intend to buy is generally considered a "dick move." Some of these shops get so few customers, and white customers are like the Holy Grail, because white people are known to carry enough money in their pockets to buy out the store's entire inventory at any given time.
You just get their hopes up by walking in and then you totally crush them when you leave. It's kind of like walking into a dog pound holding dog treats in your hand and then waving them under the noses of the hungry dogs going bonkers in the cages and then leaving without giving them any of the dog treats. So don't do this.
You just get their hopes up by walking in and then you totally crush them when you leave. It's kind of like walking into a dog pound holding dog treats in your hand and then waving them under the noses of the hungry dogs going bonkers in the cages and then leaving without giving them any of the dog treats. So don't do this.
Follow my lame Twitter feed: @gavin_mac
Damn, that sucks.andyinasia wrote:woah! I'd never heard of what grobar was on about, yet at this moment I appear to be experiencing a bizarre example. I'm posting from a hospital - brought the wife in with a complaint; turns out she has a tumor. So we're offered two options for the course of treatment. One is 50% more expensive than the other. Naturally I want information on the merits of both. No, cannot. Tell us which one you choose, THEN we'll explain the procedure in detail . Blimey!
Go back 2moro, be the FIRST customer so they offer you the "good luck price" for the day.
gavinmac, the sellers get just as pissed off with khmer who ask the price and don't buy.
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What a bunch of utter garbage. So it's somehow a big faux pas to ask the price for something if you aren't willing to buy it then and there? I don't give a shit about this retarded first lucky customer shit. If I'm quoted a price that seems outrageous, I'm not going to bother negotiating, I'll just go somewhere else.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
I think there's no need to bother paying much more than the local price, but it also depends on how much energy you have. To really know the price of something, unless you shop for the same items regularly, can be quite challenging. You have to ask the price, then try to bargain, and then try at another place (in case the first place was just totally ripping you off). Ideally you should try about three places to get the real price.
I rarely shop for food so I don't know the prices well, and they can vary according to season and according to small differences in quality which aren't obvious to foreigners. Prices also go up from time to time and no amount of bargaining will get it for the old price.
As an example, a few months ago, I went to buy some ginger, and I didn't know the price. I was going to buy it, but then the seller just kind of rounded up the price for no apparent reason, which clued me in they thought I should pay a 'barang' price. I tried the next place and it turned out the first place was charging me double the amount. The first lady cursed me as I walked away (to which I just said nothing), and it was obvious the other locals thought she was rude. I should note I speak nearly fluent Khmer so that helps a lot in getting a more realistic price early on.
As for buying clothes, if they are charging way more than it should be I just offer them a similarly unreasonably low price. They might give up or offer a lower price. If I don't feel confident they're offering a good price, I usually just say I'm going to check around, and no one has ever seemed really offended by that.
As for Angkor Wat, I actually think locals should have to pay something. I don't think they see it totally as a religious experience. I'll never forget when I was at the very top of Angkor Wat, and some lady had a kid with a toy gun that made loud, annoying noises. She had no thought that it was inappropriate for a holy place. Not charging anything for Angkor Wat just contributes to it not having as much value in Khmer people's eyes. Plus the large number of Khmer tourists contributes to wear and tear on the temples as well. I think they should have to pay about a dollar to enter. I actually think the "khmer enter for free" is a PR gimmick of the government to get public support.
I rarely shop for food so I don't know the prices well, and they can vary according to season and according to small differences in quality which aren't obvious to foreigners. Prices also go up from time to time and no amount of bargaining will get it for the old price.
As an example, a few months ago, I went to buy some ginger, and I didn't know the price. I was going to buy it, but then the seller just kind of rounded up the price for no apparent reason, which clued me in they thought I should pay a 'barang' price. I tried the next place and it turned out the first place was charging me double the amount. The first lady cursed me as I walked away (to which I just said nothing), and it was obvious the other locals thought she was rude. I should note I speak nearly fluent Khmer so that helps a lot in getting a more realistic price early on.
As for buying clothes, if they are charging way more than it should be I just offer them a similarly unreasonably low price. They might give up or offer a lower price. If I don't feel confident they're offering a good price, I usually just say I'm going to check around, and no one has ever seemed really offended by that.
As for Angkor Wat, I actually think locals should have to pay something. I don't think they see it totally as a religious experience. I'll never forget when I was at the very top of Angkor Wat, and some lady had a kid with a toy gun that made loud, annoying noises. She had no thought that it was inappropriate for a holy place. Not charging anything for Angkor Wat just contributes to it not having as much value in Khmer people's eyes. Plus the large number of Khmer tourists contributes to wear and tear on the temples as well. I think they should have to pay about a dollar to enter. I actually think the "khmer enter for free" is a PR gimmick of the government to get public support.
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GM, you're a funny bloke but every once in a while you show that you don't have a clue what's actually going on in this country and what it's like to make local dollar.
Look, although I've seen improvement over the years I've been here, clearly Khmers don't understand the concept of free market like we do. For many businesses, it's not the customer, but the business owner who is king. Also, many Khmers don't shop around themselves - thereby overpaying almost on a daily basis-why would you allow that to happen? Since the free market is here, they'd be wise to catch up. As long as they don't, we'll keep having shit customer service and general disdain for the customer.
To Andy- I'm so sorry to hear this. All the best to you and yours.
Obviously, this is BS, which means that you are saying that white people should uphold the misconception of being rich by overpaying... Sure, that'll clear up things!gavinmac wrote:... and white customers are like the Holy Grail, because white people are known to carry enough money in their pockets to buy out the store's entire inventory at any given time.
So, in order to not disappoint people, many of whom specifically try to overcharge us, we should just go along like meek lambs (or better, allow us to be milked like silly cows) to not hurt their tender souls. I'm sure the sellers will feel comfortable in not having been insulted and will definitely not be laughing their tits off behind our backs (or even in our faces).gavinmac wrote:You just get their hopes up by walking in and then you totally crush them when you leave.
Look, although I've seen improvement over the years I've been here, clearly Khmers don't understand the concept of free market like we do. For many businesses, it's not the customer, but the business owner who is king. Also, many Khmers don't shop around themselves - thereby overpaying almost on a daily basis-why would you allow that to happen? Since the free market is here, they'd be wise to catch up. As long as they don't, we'll keep having shit customer service and general disdain for the customer.
To Andy- I'm so sorry to hear this. All the best to you and yours.
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- OrangeDragon
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yeah, they're new to capitalism... my wife actually believed that prices were the same everywhere once someone reached bottom dollar in negotiations. but they seem to catch on quick once they're shown the value or price shopping working out a few times.
Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.
Robert H. Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette
Robert H. Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette
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