Thank you.Jaap N. wrote:^ Thanks, MM, a good read!
I stand to be corrected, as I'm no scholar, and was mainly running from memory. But that's my personal take on the situation anyhow.
Post by MoodyMac » Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:11 pm
Thank you.Jaap N. wrote:^ Thanks, MM, a good read!
Post by OrangeDragon » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:21 pm
I've discussed this with a few of the CNRP supporters, and honestly most of them seem to blame Hun Sen rather than the Vietnamese directly when they're able to speak in English well enough and are pressed on the details of their views. However they ALSO reason that the only way a Khmer would do something like the things he's done to his own people is if he's being manipulated. And the Vietnamese government becomes the manipulator, and the Vietnamese people become his tools. Most of them ALSO feel the Chinese are doing it, however are less concerned overall about them because they don't happen to share a border with them... so it's not the hot issue on their minds. Solve the Vietnamese issues they have and it likely would be next on their agenda.MoodyMac wrote:The reality is that regardless of what Khmer choose to call the Viet people, the overriding Khmer instinct is to blame outside forces for their woes and internal issues. Prostitution? The youn started that problem. Eating dog? Youn do that. Selling kids into indentured labour? Youn. Unemployment? Youn steal our jobs. Depleted fish stocks. Youn steal our fish. Deforestation? Youn.
These problems won't be solved by blaming the Vietnamese, the Thai, the French, or the Americans. They won't be solved by climbing further into bed with the Chinese and getting mired in regional politics. These problems will only be solved by a government that is accountable to the people of Cambodia, makes decisions in the national interest rather than personal interest, starts rewarding those with skills and ability rather than those with family connections, accepts their place in the modern world with some pride of the achievements of their ancestors but maintaining a focus on the present and the future without continuing the habit of looking for someone else to blame.
Post by Lucky Lucan » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:32 pm
So they blame HE but blame the Yuon for his behavior... Classic passing the buck BS again..OrangeDragon wrote: I've discussed this with a few of the CNRP supporters, and honestly most of them seem to blame HE rather than the Vietnamese directly......However they ALSO reason that the only way a Khmer would do something like the things he's done to his own people is if he's being manipulated. And the Vietnamese government becomes the manipulator
I talk to CNRP supporters daily. Doesn't mean I have to agree with them.I wonder, jm/AiA/etc, with all of these papers/interviews/etc have you guys ever approached "man on the street" CNRP supporters..
Post by andyinasia » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:35 pm
Post by Lucky Lucan » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:37 pm
Post by OrangeDragon » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:31 pm
Post by OrangeDragon » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:44 pm
she, and her whole family, have cambodian documents going back before the KR, despite about 2/3 of the family being killed by them. one of the ones thought to be killed even managed to survive in an interesting tale of crawling your way out of a mass grave with a head wound.jm wrote:I think she should be deported. Cambodia for Khmers.OrangeDragon wrote:interesting perspectives. no wonder you 3 have the views you do.
:-/ a shame.
as for LLs "passing the buck" jab... i can understand them not wanting to believe one of their own people cares so little for the people he's leading. people rationalize shit away all the time in one way or another... not really so simple as "passing the buck" (that would be if HE blamed it on the vietnamese and did an "it's not my fault, they made me" number). for them it's more of a trying to understand, and failing (possibly, i still don't think the VN influence on him is non existent either) to do so.
jm, as to the anti chinese... my wife is part chinese and talks shit on the chinese and their meddling/stealing land/etc pretty regularly.
Post by Fleksnes » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:27 pm
Post by Dagenham » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:48 pm
As you well recognize, jm, the distinction is "the VN" vs. the "VN companies", eh? They are 2 different things altogether and that is the problem - the Khmers can't seem to tell the difference in their ranting and hating.jm wrote:I think she should be deported. Cambodia for Khmers.OrangeDragon wrote:interesting perspectives. no wonder you 3 have the views you do.
:-/ a shame.
as for LLs "passing the buck" jab... i can understand them not wanting to believe one of their own people cares so little for the people he's leading. people rationalize shit away all the time in one way or another... not really so simple as "passing the buck" (that would be if HE blamed it on the vietnamese and did an "it's not my fault, they made me" number). for them it's more of a trying to understand, and failing (possibly, i still don't think the VN influence on him is non existent either) to do so.
jm, as to the anti chinese... my wife is part chinese and talks shit on the chinese and their meddling/stealing land/etc pretty regularly.
There's a difference between complaining about behaviors - I don't like VN companies land grabbing and racism. Nobody around me is shy about saying "I don't like Vietnamese".
Post by meik » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:10 am
This confuses me. There are significant amounts of illegal immigrants in Cambodia?Fleksnes wrote:Seems like CNRP has been quite successful in it anti Vietnamese campaign - according to the new IRI survey released today, respondents say illegal immigration from Vietnam is the second most important issue facing Cambodia,
Survey results: http://www.iri.org/sites/default/files/ ... 202013.pdf
Post by LTO » Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:34 am
You might want to check that against previous surveys. Has there been a significant change? I suspect that issue has always been very high on the list.Fleksnes wrote:Seems like CNRP has been quite successful in it anti Vietnamese campaign - according to the new IRI survey released today, respondents say illegal immigration from Vietnam is the second most important issue facing Cambodia,
Survey results: http://www.iri.org/sites/default/files/ ... 202013.pdf
Post by Fleksnes » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:28 am
Immigration scored significantly less on importance in 2011(see page 25 of http://www.iri.org/sites/default/files/ ... ersion.pdfLTO wrote:You might want to check that against previous surveys. Has there been a significant change? I suspect that issue has always been very high on the list.