If you want to hear from someone who knows, wouldn't that be . . . ummm . . . lawyers?sattroni wrote:Going to lawyers is never a good start . Need to do the study first . I would like to hear from someone that
actually knows .
Last will / Testament in Cambodia
- vladimir
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Different countries have different requirements.
I do know that in South Africa, a guy started selling formats for divorces and wills in shops.
Some scuzzy lawyers went bananas and tried to shut him down.
They failed.
Copy what he did.
Find an extant will, copy the general format, modify it with your specific details and get it signed and witnessed. In some countries there is no stipulation that a lawyer needs to do any of it.
Get an original translated, that will be the first step.
I do know that in South Africa, a guy started selling formats for divorces and wills in shops.
Some scuzzy lawyers went bananas and tried to shut him down.
They failed.
Copy what he did.
Find an extant will, copy the general format, modify it with your specific details and get it signed and witnessed. In some countries there is no stipulation that a lawyer needs to do any of it.
Get an original translated, that will be the first step.
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
Just following on original post.. what is the best way to get a legal will that would be honored in Cambodia when I die?
I have one for my assets in my home country. But need one here to be sure my cars and property go to the right people.
I have one for my assets in my home country. But need one here to be sure my cars and property go to the right people.
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There are three types of will recognised here, a local lawyer told me recently - I am in the process of making a will.steelyRon wrote:Just following on original post.. what is the best way to get a legal will that would be honored in Cambodia when I die?
I have one for my assets in my home country. But need one here to be sure my cars and property go to the right people.
Private will : you just write a letter saying "I leave all my worldly goods to xxx", sign it and get it witnessed. But this is the least secure type and could be disputed by other interested parties. Cost: free
Songkat stamped will. More secure but possible problems if the person at the songkat who signed your will changes - will the new person be willing or able to assist you when needed. Cost: around $200
Notarised will: drafted and registered by an authorised notary. Most secure type. And most expensive. Cost: $600
Also, interestingly, an Aussie lawyer has advised me that you can have one will done for your assets in Cambodia, and another will prepared overseas for any assets you have overseas. Just be sure each will refers to assets within their specific countries only, and that NEITHER will says "this is my last will and testament and revokes any other will"
youngwill100 wrote:There are three types of will recognised here, a local lawyer told me recently - I am in the process of making a will.steelyRon wrote:Just following on original post.. what is the best way to get a legal will that would be honored in Cambodia when I die?
I have one for my assets in my home country. But need one here to be sure my cars and property go to the right people.
Private will : you just write a letter saying "I leave all my worldly goods to xxx", sign it and get it witnessed. But this is the least secure type and could be disputed by other interested parties. Cost: free
Songkat stamped will. More secure but possible problems if the person at the songkat who signed your will changes - will the new person be willing or able to assist you when needed. Cost: around $200
Notarised will: drafted and registered by an authorised notary. Most secure type. And most expensive. Cost: $600
Also, interestingly, an Aussie lawyer has advised me that you can have one will done for your assets in Cambodia, and another will prepared overseas for any assets you have overseas. Just be sure each will refers to assets within their specific countries only, and that NEITHER will says "this is my last will and testament and revokes any other will"
Great information... thanks for taking the time to reply.
- badboybubby
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i wonder why that is if their primary role is as witness? i imagine there's lots of wills (valid) where the witnesses have long disappeared?More secure but possible problems if the person at the songkat who signed your will changes
that's interesting because i thought this was basic legal wording/requirement for a will to be valid in a western/english speaking country?that NEITHER will says "this is my last will and testament and revokes any other will
He's been in his room 35 years...time to let him out!
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Yes I thought before that only one will was possible as well. But I've been assured by an Aussie lawyer today that you can have multiple wills as long as they are specific about where and what assets they cover.
I'm not sure the songkat is just acting just as a witness - I think the will is registered with the songkat. But the local lawyer said that it was possibly less secure than a notary registered one.
I'm not sure the songkat is just acting just as a witness - I think the will is registered with the songkat. But the local lawyer said that it was possibly less secure than a notary registered one.
Not really sure why you would need a "local" will.
All your land assets are presumably in your wife's name as you cannot own land here and getting a second hand car rego changed in to your name as a westerner is a pain in the fucking arse so most likely it is either in your wife's name or still the previous owner. I assume you share a bank account so she has access to any monies. Certainly that is my situation . What exactly do you need covered in a will ? Unless you intend on cutting your wife out of your will ?
However
You need a will in your own country for assets held there and that is as simple as googling a template, using it, appointing an Executor and having it witnessed by three people. Send a sealed copy to your Executor and keep one locally. Done. This is what I did but then I am not Donald Trump with a complicated estate.
My outlook is pretty simple. Wife gets all of it locally and most of it back home and looks after the kids. Kids get some held in a trust until they are older .
All your land assets are presumably in your wife's name as you cannot own land here and getting a second hand car rego changed in to your name as a westerner is a pain in the fucking arse so most likely it is either in your wife's name or still the previous owner. I assume you share a bank account so she has access to any monies. Certainly that is my situation . What exactly do you need covered in a will ? Unless you intend on cutting your wife out of your will ?
However
You need a will in your own country for assets held there and that is as simple as googling a template, using it, appointing an Executor and having it witnessed by three people. Send a sealed copy to your Executor and keep one locally. Done. This is what I did but then I am not Donald Trump with a complicated estate.
My outlook is pretty simple. Wife gets all of it locally and most of it back home and looks after the kids. Kids get some held in a trust until they are older .
Rated R for Ricecakes
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You need one will for your Khmer wife.
+
You need another will for your wife back home.
+
You need another will for your wife back home.
He could be like me...not married, but if I die, I want my cars and other stuff to go to specific people.ricecakes wrote:Not really sure why you would need a "local" will.
All your land assets are presumably in your wife's name as you cannot own land here and getting a second hand car rego changed in to your name as a westerner is a pain in the fucking arse so most likely it is either in your wife's name or still the previous owner. I assume you share a bank account so she has access to any monies. Certainly that is my situation . What exactly do you need covered in a will ? Unless you intend on cutting your wife out of your will ?
However
You need a will in your own country for assets held there and that is as simple as googling a template, using it, appointing an Executor and having it witnessed by three people. Send a sealed copy to your Executor and keep one locally. Done. This is what I did but then I am not Donald Trump with a complicated estate.
My outlook is pretty simple. Wife gets all of it locally and most of it back home and looks after the kids. Kids get some held in a trust until they are older .
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Here's the main Cambodian law on this at pg 262:
https://cambodianbusinesscorner.files.w ... codeen.pdf
https://cambodianbusinesscorner.files.w ... codeen.pdf
I just read through the section on wills starting on page 268. It appears that the notorial document would be the safest and most secure. Since this topic is over a year old, any one now have experience on preparing one of these type wills?unterunter wrote:Here's the main Cambodian law on this at pg 262:
https://cambodianbusinesscorner.files.w ... codeen.pdf
Read the full article from the start here.....Types of will
As set out in the Civil Code, there are seven types of wills. However, only the first three listed in the code are relevant for the purposes of this article – a will by notarial document, a will by privately produced document, and a will by secret document. The rest – which include the will of a person in immediate danger of death and the will of a person in quarantine – deal with very specific cases and are just variations of the first three.
A will by notarial document demands that the person orally declares the tenor (exact wording) of the will to a notary in the presence of two witnesses, who can’t have blood ties to the testator. The notary then writes down the content of the will and reads it aloud to the testator and witnesses. Finally, the testator, the witnesses and the notary sign the document.
Skywon Law’s Hib says that, by law, a notarised document like this will be accepted by most institutions. However, to guarantee that the will’s authenticity isn’t put into question and the wishes of the decedent are respected, he says the document should be brought before a court, where a judge can issue a ruling.
“Some institutions, such as banks and the cadastral office, may have certain internal procedures in place that might require a ruling by a court. It’s always best to get such a ruling that declares the will is legitimate,” added Hib.
In a will by private document the testator writes the whole text by himself – by hand – and affixes his signature. This type of will is more susceptible to fraudulency, since it doesn’t involve a notary or an attorney, explains Hib. He says that, even more so than with a notarised document, this type of testament should be taken to a court by the executor of the successors for the application of probate.
A will by secret document is what attorneys call a “hybrid”, combining features of both previous types of wills. In order to make a will by secret document, the testator writes down the text of the testament, signs it and puts it inside an envelope which he later seals. The testator can utilise the help of an attorney to write the testament.
Next, the testator produces the sealed document before a notary and at least two witnesses and declares that it is his (or her) testamentary document. The notary then writes the date of the production of the document on the envelope and signs it. The testator and the witnesses also affix their signatures.
Hib, whose law firm handles mostly wills by secret document, says that writing this type of will is generally less costly than writing a notarised testament, since it doesn’t require a notary to write the text. According to Hib, notaries usually charge a fixed percentage of the testator’s property value (as expressed in the will). If the testator is handing over a considerable wealth, the fees can be hefty.
Inheriting property as a foreigner
According to Article 1155 of the Civil Code, foreigners are unable to own property or land by means of a testamentary gift. In other words, just because you inherit a property, doesn’t mean you get to keep it. “You can’t own property through inheritance if you are not Cambodian,” says Leicester. “This is one of the biggest issues testators face here.”
In the Kingdom, foreigners can only own properties that are registered under a strata title, a special type of deed that applies only to units within co-owned buildings (also known as condominiums), excluding the ground floor. There are other ways a foreigner can enjoy practical ownership of a property, such as through a nominee structure or through a company with a majority shareholder with Cambodian citizenship. For more on this topic, click here.
If a foreigner inherits a property, and that property doesn’t have a strata title – or is not being held through a company with a Cambodian majority shareholder – he or she cannot assume ownership of the estate. In this situation, the law dictates that the estate becomes a legal entity, which the foreigner must sell within three months. The profits are then distributed among the heirs (including foreigners) and the entity is dissolved.
If the estate cannot be sold within three months, it must be handed over to the next inheritor in line holding Cambodian citizenship.
Hib says boutique law firms, such as Skywon Law, can assist testators in drafting testamentary instruments that foresee these problems and work around limitations to foreign property ownership, potentially avoiding some major headaches to foreign heirs when the testator passes away and the will becomes effective.
Both Leicester and Hib agree, however, that the law is largely untested in this area, so it isn’t clear how the court would rule on the matter of a foreigner inheriting a property that he or she cannot own by law.
Secured portions
Expats looking to write a will in Cambodia should also be aware of Article 1230, which stipulates that at least half of the deceased’s estate must be passed on to the descendants. This is known as the “secured portion”. If the only surviving heirs are the deceased’s parents or grandparents – known as ascendants – the secured portion that must be allocated to them is one third of the whole estate. The testator can dispose of the rest of the assets (half or two thirds, depending on the case) as he or she wishes.
Hib says that the law allows for some wiggle room in this regard. A person may give its descendants considerably less than half of his or her estate. However, as long as the portion awarded is “reasonable”, Hib argues, no court is likely to rule against what’s specified in the will.
“For example, if your son is a doctor who makes $100,000 a year, and your father, on the other hand, doesn’t have any income, you may decide to give the bulk of your wealth to the latter. Although it is against what the civil code says, if you explain your rationale and is reasonable, the court will likely agree with you,” he says.
Intestacy
In case the deceased didn’t leave a testament, his or her property goes first to the descendants (children and grandchildren), which are considered successors of first rank. Children of the decedent have equal shares in the succession, regardless of whether they are natural or adopted. If there are no descendants, the estate goes to the ascendants – parents or grandparents. In the absence of ascendants, the estate is distributed among the siblings of the testator. A spouse of the decedent, by law, shall become a successor in every case. If the deceased has no living spouse or relatives, the property may go to the State.
Adopting a worldview of your property
Keep in mind that only your last will is valid, with each new testamentary document produced nullifying the previous one.
Besides creating a local will, Leicester recommends writing a testament in your country of origin or in any other country where you have property.
“If you own property in Spain, for example, you really want to create a will in that country, because you don’t want the Cambodian government making decisions on your assets there,” Leicester says. “You really need to take a worldwide view of what’s going to happen when you die.”
https://www.b2b-cambodia.com/articles/g ... -cambodia/
I'm not a negative person, I encourage people all the time...it's usually to f**k off! But, whatever.
But beware...
http://www.khmertimeskh.com/5096163/phn ... e-equally/
Read the rest of the article here....“PHNOM PENH MUNICIPAL COURT DISREGARDS THE WILL AND DIVIDES THE ESTATE ‘EQUALLY’”
Mr. Ta Voracsattha, a Cambodian citizen left a Will which was made before a notary public on 09 December 2012 before he passed away later in that month.
Being a father of six children, the deceased appointed, in the said Will, two of his children as the co-executors of the Will to carry out his wish by managing and distributing the estates in accordance with the content of the Will.
Wanting to obtain an equal share of the estates, some of the successors were not happy with their father’s decision and requested the Court to divide the assets ‘equally’ for all children by totally disregarding the Will of the deceased.
The Phnom Penh Municipal Court agreed with such request and disregarded the Will even though the Will is valid and recognized by law. The co-executors of the Will were shocked and therefore made an appeal against the decision of the Court and demanded for the execution of the Will as it is at the Appeal Court.
http://www.khmertimeskh.com/5096163/phn ... e-equally/
I'm not a negative person, I encourage people all the time...it's usually to f**k off! But, whatever.
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