The cold hard mean truth about Cambodia, by Splinter.
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There's no doubt there are fruits to be picked here, there always are even with the most tyrant regimes. Human misery is no hallowed ground for the intrepid whitey. Plenty made money off the slave trade including apartheid South Africa even 'opportunists' saw a buck in the plight of the Jews under Nazi Germany. I'm sure for most their conscience is clear. Some even have a genuine deep rooted affinity for the country. However, the self serving apologists who deny the utter mess created by a dysfunctional government by glossing over the glaring problems are doing this country no favours. Splinter poses a good question why despite this many choose to live here. For the apologists at least the answer is clear, they were nobody before and now see themselves as king of the castle albeit one made on shit!
Last edited by Red DRAGON on Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cambodia isn't exactly known for great weed, but I'm with you on the weather.rgrowden wrote:Hey, I CHOSE to live here. The 2 major factors were the weather and the weed. I've been here for 2 years, adopted 2 cats, and I've never regretted it.
I'm with you as well on the 2 adopted pussies.
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Proof? Source? Or is this just based on your experience? In that case it's "he said, she said," and I tend to believe me own lying eyes over you.Mèo Đen wrote:That is a completely incorrect, the majority of expats here work for companies, NGO's or in international development. Some also run small businesses.
Because they couldn't get women where they came from.and there are also a number of expats who marry local girls, buy property and settle down here.
Yep, they're limited to the parts between the Mekong and the airport.Admittedly there are the flotsam and jetsm that washes up here but they are the minority and confine themselves very much to restricted areas of the city.
All of which can be done in the West, much better, with qualified workers who know what they're doing, follow safety standard and get paid prevailing wage. Source: my nephew is a bridge engineer and he "cut his teeth" in the good old US of A.Young graduate engineers ''cut their teeth'' on infrastructure projects such as bridge building, road construction, and sinking mines, before rising to senior positions and later returning to similar countries in an advisory capacity often on bilateral aid programs.
I hope the guys who design the roads and bridges here don't go anywhere near my home country. I'd rather not have my streets wash away once a year.
Sound like a bunch of great guys to me-- bureaucrats, sweatshop overseers, car salesmen, real estate broker. All that's missing is a lawyer, and insurance agent and a stock broker to round it out. Any takers?For example I increased my professional standing immeasurably by working on bi lateral aid programs here. I have a few friends here that are regional managers for large companies and choose to live here rather than other cities in the region. One works for an international garment company, another is a regional sales manager selling agricultural equipment and a third works in international property management. All are positive career moves .
Of course CEOs, regional manners, etc,. all make more money in countries like the US, UK, Japan and England than they do here, so my point remains.
Plus I never said that there weren't people with money here. I said the people here were in one way or another slogged off of their home countries. Take a lot at a private island down south for an example.
Normal, balanced people who are happy in their lives and careers in rich Western countries don't come to one of the poorest in the world to set up shop. Period. End of story.
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Two minor caveats to the above -
1) Mr Den, whilst I generally agree with you, the picture is the Ford to City: Drop Dead era of the South Bronx. Its almost 40 years outta date.
2) Mr Dragon, In your capacity as a Standard Chartered Steve, wasn't it inherent in your employment contract that you had to trade your social commentary card for a Uranium AMEX?
1) Mr Den, whilst I generally agree with you, the picture is the Ford to City: Drop Dead era of the South Bronx. Its almost 40 years outta date.
2) Mr Dragon, In your capacity as a Standard Chartered Steve, wasn't it inherent in your employment contract that you had to trade your social commentary card for a Uranium AMEX?
Haha - my money’s on Playboy
.Red DRAGON wrote:There's no doubt there are fruits to be picked here, there always are even with the most tyrant regimes. Human misery is no hallowed ground for the intrepid whitey. Plenty made money off the slave trade including apartheid South Africa even 'opportunists' saw a buck in the plight of the Jews under Nazi Germany. I'm sure for most their conscience is clear. Some even have a genuine deep rooted affinity for the country. However, the self serving apologists who deny the utter mess created by a dysfunctional government by glossing over the glaring problems are doing this country no favours. Splinter poses a good question why despite this many choose to live here. For the apologists at least the answer is clear, they were nobody before and now see themselves as king of the castle albeit one made on shit!
Before I taught in a medical school and chose to come here to develop the medical services, although playing a small part I have helped to improve the health and also to save a number of lives of the people here. I have also worked on HIV related issues to help improve the situation here. A small contribution but much appreciated by the lives we affected. I cannot change the government which incidentally many Cambodians support here but I could make a difference to health outcomes. The statement " For the apologists at least the answer is clear, they were nobody before and now see themselves as king of the castle albeit one made on shit!'' shows utter contempt for the many people that have come here and helped in some way to improve the lives of the people of Cambodia. I know you are quite well off and able to afford a $3000 or so apartment on riverside, and are able to denigrate people with less resources than you, but apart from being retired with considerable income are you doing anything to improve the situation of the people of Cambodia? If you are all well and good I would be interested to hear about your contribution.
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Some cold hard facts:
You might want to try Somalia. No taxes there at all and I hear it's even "freer" than this place.
Best part about being rich here is that if you get in a fatal accident, which is very likely, you have to travel down the same crowded, flooded, fucked up roads as the farmers that make $500 a year. Good luck money bags!
Problem is the only thing worse than a withered sexpat or a sweatshop monger is a bloodsucking parasitic "aid worker", NGO fuck or bogus charity knob "cutting their teeth" and "building their CV" by 'saving Cambodia' one iced latte in Costa BKK1 at a time.
Some people got confused when I said flotsam and jetsam. Here's a tip: the lowest layers of scum around often come in suits and ties and drive expensive cars.
There are some bad parts of NYC but they are disappearing. It's also the financial capital of the world and one of the richest urban centers on earth. It's home to world class arts and entertainment, museums, countless public parks, hundreds of world class schools and public libraries, dozens of top ranked universities, there is all manner of public transportation, the roads don't fill with human shit when it rains. It's not even comparable.
By the way: LULZ. You literally posted a picture of a dumping ground in the Bronx taken decades ago in the middle of a severe financial crisis. Can I post a picture of one of the open shit rivers and put on a post card that says "Phnom Penh: Wherever you are it's better than here!"? Or should I post one from a mass grave during the Khmer Rouge era and pretend it was taken last week? I want to learn from the Mao Den school of falsification.
What happens if your daughter is out with friends and gets hit by a Lexus on some side street after dark here? Let's see if you can answer honestly.
You know what else? If you're poor you can get welfare and food stamps in the Bronx. You can get free health care and schooling too. And the US is hardly a leader in this regard. It trains behind most of the developed world. So the expats from countries with higher social safety nets have even less of an excuse.
You've been added to my (very short) list of posters here with a sound mind. Pity it doesn't mean much since I won't be posting anymore.
Asked an answered. Try reading threads before you post in them.starkmonster wrote:Splinter, one simple question. Why do you post on this forum?
Keeps them honest.cambodian wrote:Why is there a need to remind such people?
I do too. I don't expect people to own up to their wretched lives, but it's worth pointing it out to them and to any bystanders. Plus I'm retired and I don't patronize prostitutes or drink myself into a stupor every night so I don't have anything else to do.cambodian wrote:I agree with almost everything you wrote in this thread but also understand their reaction.
They should have their heads examined. After you weed out the addicts of one type or another I'm willing to bet bullion to biscuits that the rest will be diagnosed with mental illnesses.logos wrote:Splinter, how about the myriad of self employed guys who like it better here than in the West?
Gee, I don't know.. the US, Hong Kong, Singapore, New Zealand, etc., etc. Cambodia is ranked 137th in the world for "ease of doing business".Where in the developed world is it so easy to run your business with so little red tape?
You don't pay taxes and you get nothing in return. Shit deal. I'm fine with paying taxes if it means I get freeways, schools that actually educate and hospitals that can save my life.Tax? Yeah, a few buck in the right pockets. Buying an apartment is easy as fuck , the cost of living is low and the ease of travel across Asia at a minimum cost is a bonus. And you can find a fine woman outside the bars with a minimum of effort, if you aren't a complete dick
You might want to try Somalia. No taxes there at all and I hear it's even "freer" than this place.
The local girls that are spending your money?You tend to focus on the negatives. I have the opposite tendency. Guess who's having a better time?
Yea I know. U guyz are the best. Tell us more stories about getting drunk at Rehab. It's so cool bro. Everyone in the West envies the rockstar lifestyle of the jet set expats of Phnom Penh -- after all that's what this place is most known for. I hear they're gonna do a "Real Housewives of Tonle Bassac" soon. LULZscobienz wrote:Totally disagree. I know around 40 expats here that I would call friends or colleagues. Not one of them is stuck here. They are all doing well in their careers and many are making very very good money. They enjoy being here. The have lives and families here. Several earn monthly salaries well into five figures plus, equivalent to what they would earn back home but with much lower taxes and living expenses. I bet if we did an anonymous income poll on here, you would be surprised at the results.
Best part about being rich here is that if you get in a fatal accident, which is very likely, you have to travel down the same crowded, flooded, fucked up roads as the farmers that make $500 a year. Good luck money bags!
No one wants to this they're "that guy." But somebody has to play the part. Might as well be you muscles.Lucky Lucan wrote:People don't want to be reminded of dull cliched stereotypes which don't even apply to them.
Oh but it's not. I kicked around the provinces for a long while before settling here and I met enough "professionals" to fill my quota for the decade. I came with a lot of cash and I'm not used to going without so when I settled in the capital city I started by plunging right into fine dining, the arts and culture I could find and joined quite a few events and some of the most prestigious places in town.assholeinasia wrote:This is all completely outside his experience
Problem is the only thing worse than a withered sexpat or a sweatshop monger is a bloodsucking parasitic "aid worker", NGO fuck or bogus charity knob "cutting their teeth" and "building their CV" by 'saving Cambodia' one iced latte in Costa BKK1 at a time.
Some people got confused when I said flotsam and jetsam. Here's a tip: the lowest layers of scum around often come in suits and ties and drive expensive cars.
Because like anyone with a problem you don't know or can't admit you have it. There's a whole industry built on this kind of denial. Back home addicts and mental cases have people to step in and offer them help. Here no such luck. Join up with the guy who is as weird as you and paint the town red.MoodyMac wrote:When ever I read Splinters posts I get the impression he is talking about someone else, a group of people who I don't know.
You have conversations with Cambodians. So do I. I also write here. That's called expressing yourself. You don't have to agree with others to do it. I'm sure you learned that in France. If you agree with what goes on here you're truly fucked up. This is a place where going against the grain is the only thing that makes any sense at all.Joon wrote:But instead of harping on about them again and again and again, I do something about it. In my work, in my daily interactions with people, in chats and conversations with Cambodians.
Right. That's perfectly demonstrated every time someone in a $100,000 car runs over a poor farmers daughter while speeding drunk at night with no lights on through an intersection then gets out of it by paying her family $500, if he even gets caught at all. The never ending line of Range Rover SUVs that flood the streets are another good indication that the Buddha's noble ideals reign supreme here.As fucked up as Cambodia can be, that's also the place where you can see the best in people and actual hope and aspirations that go beyond shallow and conspicuous materialism.
I've said time and time again that the every day people here are absolutely great and I've taken the time to study their language so I can read it, write it and speak it. The issues I have is that they are about the only good thing and that the foreigners here are a complete and total drain.So my problem with Splinter is that he absolutely refuses to see the other side of the coin that Cambodia is, and just feel the need to make sweeping generalizations.
Wow, what a career, built on the backs of the poor and destitute. Man, where the fuck do I sign up for this? And you make five figures a month you say? I hope more countries fall into "third world" status so my nieces and nephews will have a chance to get into this exciting job field too! I hear Greece may be hitting third world levels soon. Let's cross our fingers!Black Cat wrote:As I have repeatedly stated: If one is working in international development or an international business of some sort one does not advance by "staying at home", but by building experience working on projects in third world countries.
It's not "how he perceives it." It's an objective fact. It's literally one big open sewer. There are open rivers of shit flowing through it and every time it rains the streets fill with raw sewage. Then the streets dry and the fecal matter turns to dust that leaves half the popular with eye and respiratory infections. Every single year. FACT. You can't even accept this little bit. Your rose colored glasses must be industrial strength. Did you get them from one of the five figures a month international development guys? Sounds like some top secret inter agency aid stuff!LTO wrote:Me for one. I think this is a great place. Certainly not "a toilet" as you seem to perceive it.
I did. Turned out the whores and drunks were better company. Every day Khmer people are better still by a long shot.Reminds me of tourists who come here expecting whores and drunks, then hang out with drunks in whore bars looking around themselves and saying, "I knew it, this place is full of whores and drunks." Do you ever go to normal events and activities with normal people or are you just hanging around the sorts that get their visas at motorcycle shops?
Sounds like a winner. I bet you were at the head of your class back home. Do you make five figures a month too?rgrowden wrote:Hey, I CHOSE to live here. The 2 major factors were the weather and the weed.
Yeah gee, what would an actual Cambodian know about it? Certainly not as much as an international expert. You can see how well the international community has done here over the years after all.black pussy wrote:Yet you choose to ignore this and refer to your country as a "toilet/fucked up'' place.
There are no nice areas. Millionaires live next to slums. Shit and piss fills the streets of the biggest and best homes. Ferraris and Porches ride down clogged little roads with thousands of tiny motor bikes. There isn't a single hospital up to international standards. There isn't a single university up to international standards. There isn't a single freeway. There are no real parks. There are no public libraries. There are no usable sidewalks. There is no real mass transportation. The internet is slow and spotty. The power goes out regularly.There are always "fucked up'' areas in any city. I could go to South Bronx and say New York was a ''fucked up'' city full of 'gangster drug dealers, but that would be totally inaccurate as there are many nice areas to live as there are in many cities Phnom Penh included. If I was poor I would certainly rather be here than in the area in the South Bronx depicted below.
There are some bad parts of NYC but they are disappearing. It's also the financial capital of the world and one of the richest urban centers on earth. It's home to world class arts and entertainment, museums, countless public parks, hundreds of world class schools and public libraries, dozens of top ranked universities, there is all manner of public transportation, the roads don't fill with human shit when it rains. It's not even comparable.
By the way: LULZ. You literally posted a picture of a dumping ground in the Bronx taken decades ago in the middle of a severe financial crisis. Can I post a picture of one of the open shit rivers and put on a post card that says "Phnom Penh: Wherever you are it's better than here!"? Or should I post one from a mass grave during the Khmer Rouge era and pretend it was taken last week? I want to learn from the Mao Den school of falsification.
You'd be wrong. If "some African American" in the Bronx gets into an accident an ambulance and police will be on the scene immediately, the police will block off the area and keep gawkers out, the trained EMTs will work to stabilize the person (without raiding their wallet), and then the person will be quickly brought to one of several hospitals that meet or surpass international standards where they will receive care without regard to their ability to pay. FACTS.No mater where you are in the world if you are poor and living in a depressed area, anywhere will appear ''fucked up''. Some people for example criticize the health care here, but I would argue that it is better here than it is for some African American in the South Bronx.
What happens if your daughter is out with friends and gets hit by a Lexus on some side street after dark here? Let's see if you can answer honestly.
You know what else? If you're poor you can get welfare and food stamps in the Bronx. You can get free health care and schooling too. And the US is hardly a leader in this regard. It trains behind most of the developed world. So the expats from countries with higher social safety nets have even less of an excuse.
MUCH RESPECT for a solid post!Red DRAGON wrote:There's no doubt there are fruits to be picked here, there always are even with the most tyrant regimes. Human misery is no hallowed ground for the intrepid whitey. Plenty made money off the slave trade including apartheid South Africa even 'opportunists' saw a buck in the plight of the Jews under Nazi Germany. I'm sure for most their conscience is clear. Some even have a genuine deep rooted affinity for the country. However, the self serving apologists who deny the utter mess created by a dysfunctional government by glossing over the glaring problems are doing this country no favours. Splinter poses a good question why despite this many choose to live here. For the apologists at least the answer is clear, they were nobody before and now see themselves as king of the castle albeit one made on shit!
You've been added to my (very short) list of posters here with a sound mind. Pity it doesn't mean much since I won't be posting anymore.
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Six months of rain, six months of dust. What's not to like?MekongMouse wrote:Cambodia isn't exactly known for great weed, but I'm with you on the weather.rgrowden wrote:Hey, I CHOSE to live here. The 2 major factors were the weather and the weed. I've been here for 2 years, adopted 2 cats, and I've never regretted it.
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Social commentary? From someone who openly boasts about screwing over customers while also investing in a bank that has been involved in land-grabs etc. Oh, the irony...
http://www.phnompenhpost.com/business/a ... t-broadensRed Dragon wrote:That's where you're wrong! The crimes the banks commit are neither transparent or small scale. It's easy to put the poor thief or desperate drug addict who steal from a store behind bars but the smart dressed coke sniffing banker who dines with the judge's friends and 'contributes' to political causes is just not palatable. You just don't have a clue how much we screw you. But hey, ignorance is bliss as they say!
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
Why, are you leaving Cambodia?splinter wrote:Pity it doesn't mean much since I won't be posting anymore.
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Yes. Finally got around to processing a retirement visa in a modern country and I'll be headed there in about 30 days. No more time to schold the school children here.metaleap wrote:Why, are you leaving Cambodia?splinter wrote:Pity it doesn't mean much since I won't be posting anymore.
Although I would stop posting even if I was staying since Ignorance Inc., aka the mod staff has put my posting on preview which is annoying and throws off the pace of conversation.
Enjoy your cheap beer.
Cambodian wrote:...How many people would live in this toilet/fucked up place if they were better off elsewhere, excluding even more fucked up places and if visas weren't so easy to get?...
I know your personal and family circumstances. You are an exception.LTO wrote:Me for one. I think this is a great place. Certainly not "a toilet" as you seem to perceive it. Visas aren't an issue for me, or really for anybody I associate with.
LTO,Cambodian wrote: Like LL, I gotta wonder who you hang with. Reminds me of tourists who come here expecting whores and drunks, then hang out with drunks in whore bars looking around themselves and saying, "I knew it, this place is full of whores and drunks." Do you ever go to normal events and activities with normal people or are you just hanging around the sorts that get their visas at motorcycle shops?
There is no need to get personal and resort to this kind of comment. Only ill bred people do this. Because of my respect for you, I am taking the time to point that out.
Whom I hang out with and what kind of people I hang out with have nothing to do with my post. As a longtime reader in a forum full of posts about bars, bar girls, prostitutes, the price of drinks, etc, maybe my perception of Cambodia is distorted. By all means, please correct me if I am wrong but do not cast aspersions on me or my associations. I thought you were better than that.
^ that's rich from someone who just called his own motherland a whorehouse.
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