Corkage Fees
If we're talking about the cork that makes K440 pages load in about 2-3 minutes on one of the fastest connections in town; I think it should be removed free of charge.
If we're talking about the cork that has gone missing from that thread, and allowing that idiot to pollute the entire forum with drivel; I think the owner should pay members for the inconvenience.
Yours,
Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells.
If we're talking about the cork that has gone missing from that thread, and allowing that idiot to pollute the entire forum with drivel; I think the owner should pay members for the inconvenience.
Yours,
Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells.
Meum est propositum in taberna mori,
ut sint Guinness proxima morientis ori.
tunc cantabunt letius angelorum chori:
"Sit Deus propitius huic potatori."
ut sint Guinness proxima morientis ori.
tunc cantabunt letius angelorum chori:
"Sit Deus propitius huic potatori."
- Starving Pelican
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Outside Cambodia? Never done a BYO in Cambodia. With those prices, you don't need it. Plus I'm not much of a wine drinker.Miguelito wrote:Most nice restaurants allow you to bring your own bottle, although some have a policy that you can only bring a bottle that is not on the menu, which is a policy that I can agree with.Starving Pelican wrote:Never heard of a $70 corkage fee. That said, non-BYO restaurants rarely even charge corkage fees as they don't allow drinks from outside.
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Miguelito wrote:The markup of a bottle at a restaurant should be 200%-400%. The determining factors should include the cost to store, the turnover, the rarity of the bottle, etc. At a shophouse style restaurant the mark up should be on the lower end of that, so a $10 retail bottle can be sold for $20 or under, as there's high turnover, not much investment or specific storage space, etc.RobW wrote:What do you reckon their mark up would be on, say, a 70 dollah bottle?Miguelito wrote:I asked for dinner inside at Iza.Alexandra wrote:It's OK if they give you a proper table outside. None of that $200 minimum spending or sitting uncomfortably around chain smokers by the edges.Miguelito wrote:I just asked Rosewood, and they told me $70 per bottle. That seems extortionate, no?
I agree that the outside isn't the best setup, with the $200 minimum spend for the table and the other seats not the most comfortable. This isn't NYC.
At a place like Rosewood they will have a large wine collection, which they need to keep at temperature, in a high cost environment, and there's also a risk (especially here) of a bottle being corked. They'll certainly be at the higher end, and I would reckon a $70 retail bottle would be about $300 there.
200%-400% markup is inaccurate for high priced wines. Generally, a restaurant will charge about 400% cost for wine by the glass and lower end bottles. For expensive wines, the markup will go down drastically as the price goes up. If they pay $70 for a bottle, it's likely they will have no more than a 50-75% markup as they are still making quite the profit. I've managed over 10 restaurants including 4 star fine dining establishments and this has been true all across the board.
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I respectfully disagree. Although you'll sometimes find a medium priced wine/champagne with a low 50-75% markup, that is certainly not the norm. It would require a high level of turnover, and I mentioned champagne as it will be less likely to turn than an aged red. Once you get into real big ticket wines the percentage certainly goes down, but that's for the several hundred-$1000 bottles, not for those that retail at $70.electrolime wrote:Miguelito wrote:The markup of a bottle at a restaurant should be 200%-400%. The determining factors should include the cost to store, the turnover, the rarity of the bottle, etc. At a shophouse style restaurant the mark up should be on the lower end of that, so a $10 retail bottle can be sold for $20 or under, as there's high turnover, not much investment or specific storage space, etc.RobW wrote:What do you reckon their mark up would be on, say, a 70 dollah bottle?Miguelito wrote:I asked for dinner inside at Iza.Alexandra wrote:It's OK if they give you a proper table outside. None of that $200 minimum spending or sitting uncomfortably around chain smokers by the edges.Miguelito wrote:I just asked Rosewood, and they told me $70 per bottle. That seems extortionate, no?
I agree that the outside isn't the best setup, with the $200 minimum spend for the table and the other seats not the most comfortable. This isn't NYC.
At a place like Rosewood they will have a large wine collection, which they need to keep at temperature, in a high cost environment, and there's also a risk (especially here) of a bottle being corked. They'll certainly be at the higher end, and I would reckon a $70 retail bottle would be about $300 there.
200%-400% markup is inaccurate for high priced wines. Generally, a restaurant will charge about 400% cost for wine by the glass and lower end bottles. For expensive wines, the markup will go down drastically as the price goes up. If they pay $70 for a bottle, it's likely they will have no more than a 50-75% markup as they are still making quite the profit. I've managed over 10 restaurants including 4 star fine dining establishments and this has been true all across the board.
But a 50-75% markup is actually not "quite the profit" when you take everything into account, such as the cost of storage (space and refrigeration), and everything else that goes into costs, including that fine crystal stemware they best be serving with an expensive wine.
I can supply ample literary evidence to support my thesis, and practical evidence. For example, Brasserie Louis has the following on their menu:
2011 Domaine de Montille Le Cailleret, Puligny-Montrachet Premier Cru for $360 a bottle, but I could order it online right now at $81.
2013 Domaine Henri Boillot Meursault, Cote de Beaune for $180 a bottle, but I can buy it for $42 in the UK (before tax), or $60ish dollars in Hong Kong or the USA.
So clearly, those are 300-400% rates, which isn't surprising in that venue. And I just looked at two of the more expensive ones. I'm confident if I went through their menu (or Topaz's, Raffle's, etc) I'll find the same on every bottle.
At Bouchon corkage is $10, but with their extensive wine list I can't imagine anyone actually needing to bring their own.Miguelito wrote:What is the norm that you think would be acceptable for a corkage fee?
I would say $10-$30, depending on the place. I once brought a bottle of wine to Michelin starred restaurant and the fee there was $40, which was OK for that place. We've brought bottles to Raffles and Topaz in the past and weren't even charged, as a courtesy.
I just asked Rosewood, and they told me $70 per bottle. That seems extortionate, no?
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I found the $81 price you are talking about and it's from one wholesaler online. This is also $50-60 less than most other wholesalers online so it's probably overstock. It also excludes tax as you have mentioned. So let's say the average wholesale bottle with tax is $150. This is in the UK and as opposed to liquor, there is a premium price paid for wines in Cambodia. I would assume the restaurant paid around $200 for the bottle.I respectfully disagree. Although you'll sometimes find a medium priced wine/champagne with a low 50-75% markup, that is certainly not the norm. It would require a high level of turnover, and I mentioned champagne as it will be less likely to turn than an aged red. Once you get into real big ticket wines the percentage certainly goes down, but that's for the several hundred-$1000 bottles, not for those that retail at $70.
But a 50-75% markup is actually not "quite the profit" when you take everything into account, such as the cost of storage (space and refrigeration), and everything else that goes into costs, including that fine crystal stemware they best be serving with an expensive wine.
I can supply ample literary evidence to support my thesis, and practical evidence. For example, Brasserie Louis has the following on their menu:
2011 Domaine de Montille Le Cailleret, Puligny-Montrachet Premier Cru for $360 a bottle, but I could order it online right now at $81.
2013 Domaine Henri Boillot Meursault, Cote de Beaune for $180 a bottle, but I can buy it for $42 in the UK (before tax), or $60ish dollars in Hong Kong or the USA.
So clearly, those are 300-400% rates, which isn't surprising in that venue. And I just looked at two of the more expensive ones. I'm confident if I went through their menu (or Topaz's, Raffle's, etc) I'll find the same on every bottle.
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What's a four star restaurant and did you manage them before or after your special forces training?electrolime wrote: I've managed over 10 restaurants including 4 star fine dining establishments and this has been true all across the board.
Follow my lame Twitter feed: @gavin_mac
Just as a matter of interest a Les Terrasses de Saint Christophe Saint-Émilion Grand Cru 2011 is $40 at Bouchon the average price to buy in a wine store is around $22.Miguelito wrote:I don't think so, not when you look at global best practices and taking in the local market.RobW wrote:70 corkage sounds reasonable then.
Edit found a bottle on Amazon for EUR 17.08
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Stan also buys in bulk in Europe and imports himself, so he’s probably doing a larger markup than appears to the naked eye.Mèo Đen wrote:Just as a matter of interest a Les Terrasses de Saint Christophe Saint-Émilion Grand Cru 2011 is $40 at Bouchon the average price to buy in a wine store is around $22.Miguelito wrote:I don't think so, not when you look at global best practices and taking in the local market.RobW wrote:70 corkage sounds reasonable then.
Edit found a bottle on Amazon for EUR 17.08
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You’ll love this:Alexandra wrote:It's OK if they give you a proper table outside. None of that $200 minimum spending or sitting uncomfortably around chain smokers by the edges.Miguelito wrote:I just asked Rosewood, and they told me $70 per bottle. That seems extortionate, no?
Went for a pre dinner drink outside at Sora (the sky bar). I ordered a draft pils and she ordered a pisco cocktail off the menu. They were out of both.
Once we were inside at dinner, we chose an Iza (chef’s) menu, $88 with sake and wine.
We were then told it was $88 for the food, there was a printing error, and that the actual price was $148 with the sake and wine.
We didn’t go for the drinks pairing so I ordered a bottle of wine. I don’t think I even need to tell you... they were out of it.
Amateur hour at that place, from start to finish.
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gotta say I never would have thought you could do that in Cambodia and it seems from my side a bit rude (and also requires some forward planning) bringing your own bottle. I've done it in restaurants with no licence for alcohol but never considered for other. Why would you do it? the restaurant wine is not to your liking or is it down to the fact it can work out cheaper? Might try it next time i'm out, always struggle to find a nice bottle of yellow tail or a Gallo on the menus.
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Haha (I'm hoping that last sentence was a joke)Jack Frost wrote:gotta say I never would have thought you could do that in Cambodia and it seems from my side a bit rude (and also requires some forward planning) bringing your own bottle. I've done it in restaurants with no licence for alcohol but never considered for other. Why would you do it? the restaurant wine is not to your liking or is it down to the fact it can work out cheaper? Might try it next time i'm out, always struggle to find a nice bottle of yellow tail or a Gallo on the menus.
It's not rude, you ask if they have a corkage fee (in French you would ask if a corkage fee is possible), and if they have a policy in place it's there for a reason; if they do not, then you don't bring a bottle. There are a few reasons:
1) You have a special bottle with some meaning, and want to enjoy it with a nice dinner. In France, for example, it's common to buy cases of wine when your child is born (well, a few years later when that vintage is released). Therefore, you might find yourself with a 1982 Burgundy that's been in the cellar for 30 years that is worth an obscene amount of money that you would never pay, but find that you'd like to drink it in a nice setting.
2) You don't want to deal with sifting through their menu, and then having bottles not available.
3) You have a really unique bottle you want to share with someone, and the restaurant doesn't have it on the list.
4) Yes, saving money can be a factor. If they have a corkage fee policy, why not take advantage of it?
5) In my case for last night, I was thinking I would pick something from my wine fridge, either a very nice champagne or a 1er grand cru, and then bring it and only get set back $30 or $40, but get to enjoy something really nice. But $70 was way too steep.
6) You'll see some Oknah types here show up to a restaurant with a whole case of wine. They'll sit in a private room and drink $500 bottles of wine. If it's not done, they'll give the extra bottles as gifts. I highly doubt they're paying much of a corkage fee though...
Some of the hole in the wall French restaurants here, while serving some good food seem to know nothing about wine or how to serve it. Also there can be little choice and the choice they have is of poor quality with often a large mark up. I don't want to be drinking poor quality wine with my meal. Paying corkage allows one to take ones own preferred bottle.Jack Frost wrote: Why would you do it? the restaurant wine is not to your liking or is it down to the fact it can work out cheaper? Might try it next time i'm out, always struggle to find a nice bottle of yellow tail or a Gallo on the menus.
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That was my experience at Le Broken Plate. They had crap wine marked up well over 400%. But they allow a $10 corkage fee, so it was a no brainer to bring in a few bottles of our own.Mèo Đen wrote:Some of the hole in the wall French restaurants here, while serving some good food seem to know nothing about wine or how to serve it. Also there can be little choice and the choice they have is of poor quality with often a large mark up. I don't want to be drinking poor quality wine with my meal. Paying corkage allows one to take ones own preferred bottle.Jack Frost wrote: Why would you do it? the restaurant wine is not to your liking or is it down to the fact it can work out cheaper? Might try it next time i'm out, always struggle to find a nice bottle of yellow tail or a Gallo on the menus.