Just think what Goebbels could have done with Facebook
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- OneTrickPony
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Just think what Goebbels could have done with Facebook
Sacha Baron Cohen has denounced tech giants Facebook, Twitter, YouTube and Google as “the greatest propaganda machine in history” and culpable for a surge in “murderous attacks on religious and ethnic minorities”
“If you pay them, Facebook will run any ‘political’ ad you want, even if it’s a lie,” he said. “And they’ll even help you micro-target those lies to their users for maximum effect. Under this twisted logic, if Facebook were around in the 1930s, it would have allowed Hitler to post 30-second ads on his ‘solution’ to the ‘Jewish problem’.”
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/n ... -to-hitler
“If you pay them, Facebook will run any ‘political’ ad you want, even if it’s a lie,” he said. “And they’ll even help you micro-target those lies to their users for maximum effect. Under this twisted logic, if Facebook were around in the 1930s, it would have allowed Hitler to post 30-second ads on his ‘solution’ to the ‘Jewish problem’.”
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/n ... -to-hitler
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- Lucky Lucan
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It's a spurious comparison. Goebbels propaganda was very focused. If Facebook has a focus like that it isn't apparent to me. They may allow some very dodgy groups on but overall they represent all walks of life and not just any particular extremists.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
Nonsense, the main reason Goebbels was so successful was because he controlled ALL the media. Nowadays Nazi/USSR type propaganda only works in countries like China and North Korea where all that stuff is banned and the state controls and closely monitors the internet.kungfufighter wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:45 amSacha Baron Cohen has denounced tech giants Facebook, Twitter, YouTube and Google as “the greatest propaganda machine in history” and culpable for a surge in “murderous attacks on religious and ethnic minorities”
“If you pay them, Facebook will run any ‘political’ ad you want, even if it’s a lie,” he said. “And they’ll even help you micro-target those lies to their users for maximum effect. Under this twisted logic, if Facebook were around in the 1930s, it would have allowed Hitler to post 30-second ads on his ‘solution’ to the ‘Jewish problem’.”
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/n ... -to-hitler
In the west that kind of bullshit just sounds like the "Orange man bad" brigade, which mainly excels in making a case for the orange man
None but ourselves can free our mind.
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- OneTrickPony
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I think you need to consider power through micro targeting as the focus. It's all about customer satisfaction apparently. Remember when Google Chrome was first revealed as collecting data and selling it on to third parties, just so they could help you and me by personally targeting ads for things we actually wanted instead of sanitary pads etc. And everyone decided they didn't like it and switched to Firefox?Lucky Lucan wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:47 amIt's a spurious comparison. Goebbels propaganda was very focused. If Facebook has a focus like that it isn't apparent to me. They may allow some very dodgy groups on but overall they represent all walks of life and not just any particular extremists.
What's changed? Not much except now there is a whole new generation that consume the whole thing without being as critical of it as we were because they never saw the change. Google has now been joined by Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat and many others and which have expanded increasingly sofisticated ways of collecting even more personal data and targeting individuals in even better, meaning more specific, ways.
Except now it's been realised that instead of them targeting you with Levi ads, because you recently bought a pair, they are now targeting you with societal stands: political and social points of view.
Eg via their news feeds and by then taking polls on your responses and using that data to target you in an even more focused way.
The sound bite " Build the wall" came from such an exercise. In the UK we were all laughing at it, but in the US instead of just writing it, people began saying it, then shouting it, before finally screaming it. It was one of the things that got him elected. Of course, some memes are often believed to have come out of nowhere, a reaction to the collective zeitgeist. But social engineering is no new subject, and Goebbels would have dearly loved Facebook, I'm sure.
I'm not very clued up on his media campaigns, but I imagine they would have used sound bites to evoke hatred against certain groups, offered 'solutions:, and told lots and lots of lies. I do know he used the latest media to get the Party's views across. Full page photographs in glossy magazines were as revolutionary at the time as Facebook would have been considered a few years ago.
Haven't you read about Cambridge Analytica and how that all worked?
I know there are a lot of people who don't believe it all has much of an impact on the way we all view things, especially perhaps people around our age, but I think as we understand it better its impact will become much clearer.
Most people use Facebook, Snapchat etc and a lot of them read their targeted news feeds and ads.
These big tech companies are indeed the biggest media machine ever invented. And the power of the press is immense.
And now they are becoming banks, too.
They are also far too unregulated to be safe.
As Cohen says: “It’s time to finally call these companies what they really are – the largest publishers in history. And here’s an idea for them: abide by basic standards and practices just like newspapers, magazines and TV news do every day.”
It would be good if they came under a few banking regulations, too.
Last edited by kungfufighter on Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:01 pm, edited 12 times in total.
Up the workers!
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- OneTrickPony
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Billionaires own much of the media, possibly 95% of the audience. Zuckerberg is a billionaire, Google, Snapchat, YouTube are all billion, if not trillion dollar companies.Visser wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:52 amNonsense, the main reason Goebbels was so successful was because he controlled ALL the media. Nowadays Nazi/USSR type propaganda only works in countries like China and North Korea where all that stuff is banned and the state controls and closely monitors the internet.kungfufighter wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:45 amSacha Baron Cohen has denounced tech giants Facebook, Twitter, YouTube and Google as “the greatest propaganda machine in history” and culpable for a surge in “murderous attacks on religious and ethnic minorities”
“If you pay them, Facebook will run any ‘political’ ad you want, even if it’s a lie,” he said. “And they’ll even help you micro-target those lies to their users for maximum effect. Under this twisted logic, if Facebook were around in the 1930s, it would have allowed Hitler to post 30-second ads on his ‘solution’ to the ‘Jewish problem’.”
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/n ... -to-hitler
In the west that kind of bullshit just sounds like the "Orange man bad" brigade, which mainly excels in making a case for the orange man
They all have immense access to power. They have a unifying agenda: None of them are voting poor.
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- violet
- Suspicious Little Mad Woman
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They have a unifying agenda: None of them are voting poor.
What does that mean? Genuine question
What does that mean? Genuine question
The mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be kindled.
- Plutarch
- Plutarch
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- OneTrickPony
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Well, lets take two examples that have had a fair bit of time and money spent on being investigated: Trump's election and the Brexit referendum. Both have successfully used data mining and micro targeting to achieve their goals. Both were initiated by right wing groups to push their low taxation deregulated market agendas. They're hardly supporting the working man and woman and addressing inequality. It's also become a tool used to keep despots in power all over the world. If we take Cambodia and Facebook, we can see the government have a free hand to use it as a tool to stay in power, whilst monitoring and punishing any dissenting voices on it.
Last edited by kungfufighter on Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Sonic1
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^ Back to Brexit are we? Giving you full credit for going a couple posts without mentioning the B word. Must have been hard on you.
Freedom is not a state. It is an act. It is not some enchanted garden perched high on a distant plateau.. Freedom is a continuous action we all must take, and each generation must do its part to create an even more fair, more just society.-John Lewis
Where do the people who complain how the social media giants and the mass media manipulate our opinions get their opinions about how social media giants and mass media manipulate our opinions from?
Asking for a friend.
Asking for a friend.
- violet
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whether you (or me, or anyone older) likes it or not, the fact is that the most recent generations DO have social media giants as their main source of world information. That is the way the world is now. That is one reason why these huge, data rich, wealthy companies are of concern to many individuals, traditional news media and governments. They have more information and power than governments and they are the main source of news to millions. The world has changed Dallow. Stop being a grumpy old codger looking at it and asking about it like your grandpa asked about Elvis shaking his hips and the Beatles long hair.Dallow Spicer wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:46 pmWhere do the people who complain how the social media giants and the mass media manipulate our opinions get their opinions about how social media giants and mass media manipulate our opinions from?
Asking for a friend.
(perhaps not the best analogy - seductive hips and hair vs global social media)
The mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be kindled.
- Plutarch
- Plutarch
Violet. I expressly and purposely used the phrase social media and mass media because kff used them, suggesting that people’s opinions are being shaped by them.
So my question is valid. If you don’t get your news and perspectives from social media and mass media (which I take to mean news outlets like newspapers, radio and tv) where do you get them?
With the exception of social media, ‘twas ever thus.
So my question is valid. If you don’t get your news and perspectives from social media and mass media (which I take to mean news outlets like newspapers, radio and tv) where do you get them?
With the exception of social media, ‘twas ever thus.
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- I live above an internet cafe
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Its a clumsy observation but he’s kind of right. Facebook sucks balls
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- OneTrickPony
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The Guardian, Project Syndicate, US courts and special investigative reports, UK independent enquiries, whistleblowers, leaked papers, etc etc etcDallow Spicer wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:46 pmWhere do the people who complain how the social media giants and the mass media manipulate our opinions get their opinions about how social media giants and mass media manipulate our opinions from?
Asking for a friend.
Up the workers!
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