Help with quoted costs

[Sharsc]

Hi all, I'm new here having recently become involved with a small NGO in cambodia . The school where I teach has agreed to assist a small school there with some small small improvements.

Before I committ anything I need to get an idea of costings in Cambodia as what we are being told appears somewhat expensive- but then I don't really know.

So - repairing toilets- school has two unusable toilets , water pipes broken and water needs to move about 100 meters . Toilets themselves in state of disrepair so looking at replacing ceramic fittings etc. Toilet building ( cement) needs some repair work done to them - $ $2000

Covered area for cooking. No longer exists except some old poles. Replace with a cement / brick building
$10,000

The area is reasonably close to Siem reap ?

Can someone give me some idea if these seem ok or not?

Also, if we were to supplement teachers wages, I think they are on around $40 a month? What might be a reasonable amount to lift them out of abject poverty and encourage them to concentrat won their teaching not how they can raise other money to feed their own families etc.

Sorry I sound naive, it is all very new. Much appreciate you're answers.

[the_purple_turtle]

Give us the name of the NGO. It might save you a lot of time and money. Seriously.

[eight]

$12,000 is not a lot of money, but the kids are still not going to learn if you dont have good teachers, who are paid a good wage. If I was running the show the kids would be using the rice fields for a toilet, [ no maintainance costs ] the same as they have done for the last 200 years. The teachers would be the best and paid the best, and kids would get paid ?????riel at the end of the class with extra given to top performers. The class room would be under a mango tree.

Compare that to : teachers get $40 per month so they need to collect money off the students.
$40 gets you '' rice farmers '' for a teacher.
Local contractor misses out on doing a ratshit job and ripping you off for $12000

[andyinasia]

OP - very well done for being a little bit suspicious and raising your doubts here. Hope you get a very positive and practical set of responses. purple turtle is on the ball - we may know more if we know the identity of the organisation. If they're legit they won't object to being mentioned.

[youngwill100]

$10,000 sounds a lot for just a 'covered area'. I assume we are talking two or three rough block walls and a corrugated iron roof?
That amount would be more than enough here in Australia where labour is minimum A$20 an hour!
Must be cheaper in Cambodia.

[Chuangt2u]

As per eight, only I'd move the whole baggage - lock, stock, and barrel - to the nearest wat.

They'll have all the facilities you need and the monks/community would more than likely be able to help you out in many other ways.
Tried and tested idea - worked a treat.

$12k's a LOT of cash here that could go a hell of a lot further than fixing a toilet and lean-to kitchen. I supplied all classroom materials needed for a wat school of over 70 students in 2006 for less than a couple of hundred bucks, and provided a computer system for little more.

[keeping_it_riel]

My guess is that most of that $12k will go towards someone's new SUV.

[MoodyMac]

$12 000 seems like a lot to me.

Do you know what size the floor area of the cooking area is? How many students are they cooking for? $10000. That's enough to build a simple house. My father in laws neighbour just built a house out of recycled building materials for $3000. It's not flash, but more than enough for a family, let alone a mere covered cooking area. We built a covered staff cooking area and a nice shady bamboo hut for about $300.

Plus two ceramic squat toilets, one hundred metres of water pipe, plus fittings and glue, a bag of cement, some sand and a trowel. $2000? No way.

[manana]

Another consideration...these projects may already be funded by another NGO. You are right to ask around, but if you are ready to contribute, you also have to be willing to accept the fact that the money may not be used as you had envisioned. The only way to ensure that things are on the level is to be actively involved with the organization before, during, and after your project.

[Sharsc]

thanks all for sound advice.

the organisation is PAPA ( Partnering Against Poverty Association ) and is a fledgling org. The website is shite but if anyone knows good bad or indifferent please let me know.

I am asking for photos, quotes, receipts etc and will be back in April to do some checking- other than that I have to have an element of trust ....

Toilets: would rather build composting if truth be told but not sure if culturally acceptable , any demonstration sites around siem reap we could visit? Will get itemised cost for proposal and ask again.

Teachers: yes I know, pay peanuts , get monkeys"- still the three there seem to be trying and if we can offer some incentive to try a bit harder...but I don't want to inflate their wages and cause friction or expectations for other teachers from orgs they are dealing with.

I am aware of the corruption and just want to make sure that not too much is syphoned off- again, any help identifying where this may be occurring is welcome-from my perspective sitting here is Oz the costs seem fair more or less ( timber pricey?). If I have an idea where the prices are inflated I can go back and ask them to revise it. Also saves us in the future if they know we have some idea of costings.

so ,quoted costs for the building are

Kitchen 6m×12m

-Cement 1T = 120$ ×8 = 960
-Sand 1Truck = 200$×5 = 1000
-Brick 1 = 0.25$×30000 = 750
-Wide string 1 = 33$×10 = 330
-Iran 1 = 7.5$ × 40 = 300
-Timber 1m³ = 360$×6m³ = 2160
- Plate timber = 360$x4m3 = 1440
- Tins = 7.5$x600p = 1875
-Builder = 1000
-Transport + 300
-Phone = 75

[the_purple_turtle]

A quick google threw up these guys, who have partnered with PAPA in the past http://www.cam.org.au/melbourne-news/vc ... nbury.html

they may or may not be able to offer insight into the org's transparency. I'll ask around and get back to you soon.

[Sharsc]

thanks purple turtle , yes we did a similar thing as this school last year whihc is how we have become involved. They seem very genuine though unorganised etc.... very willing to keep informaion flowing and reciepts etc...any info valued

[gavinmac]

ken svay will do the job for $11,900.

[Niam Bai howie]

Kitchen 6m×12m-Cement 1T = 120$ ×8 = 960-Sand 1Truck = 200$×5 = 1000-Brick 1 = 0.25$×30000 = 750-Wide string 1 = 33$×10 = 330-Iran 1 = 7.5$ × 40 = 300 -Timber 1m³ = 360$×6m³ = 2160- Plate timber = 360$x4m3 = 1440- Tins = 7.5$x600p = 1875 -Builder = 1000 -Transport + 300-Phone = 75

to put this in perspective you are paying $10k/(6*12) = $138 per square meter.

thats fucking insane.

there are villas for sale which dont have an equivilent cost per Sqm finnished very nice and very livable.

This is one of the poorest prvinces in the country,
$300 for phone??? i can only assume this is to buy a phone
$1000 for the builder? what the hell this is hardly a massive project is it, how long do you think the work will take one person? a week a month? Labourers get paid peanuts, thats the equivilent of about 13 factory workers for a month, and i dont think builders earn as much as factory workers but the differance will make up the cost for managing the job i guess.


Is this going to take that many people that long.

Plus what ever they make skimming on the materials.
$750 on string???

A friend asked for $5K to rennovate and rebuild there entire house. should put things into perspective.

Maybe ask micheal at concert for a recomendation

[MoodyMac]

2 years ago a friend of mine working as a building labourer was earning $2.50 for a 12 hour day. Another friend of mine working as a welder in construction in Phnom Penh makes about $6-7 a day.

Just checked with my housekeeper who has been working on his own house. 2 years ago bricks were 110 riel each. He thinks now they are worth about 170 riel each. 2 or 3 months ago a neighbour of his bought bricks for a house, and he paid 150 riel each. So the price quoted for bricks even generously is 5 times the going rate.