HELP NEEDED ±3000,-$ REWARD
HELP NEEDED ±3000,-$ REWARD
Dear Khmer440 users,
I own an apartment in Psar Thmey II near the central market and trying to do a basic renovation.
I have been through an amazing corrupt and long process for over a year now to get all the paperwork done. (Sangkat + Kahn +Cadastral district and my direct below neighbour thump printing)
The problem I am facing is: unshamefull other below neighbours,
The toilet pipe has to connect to the pipe that everybody is using in my building. (in my case I will connect it to the bathroom of my direct below neighbour. In return I pay this below neighbour 500,-$ and make a new bathroom. This I already agreed on. also signed by sangkat! The only thing is the other people from the 2nd and 3th floor say they don't want to allow me to use the pipe unless I pay 1000,-$ to each family in that building. I have talked with them for months (my khmer helpers) but they don't want to move. I have offered them 300,-$ each and to fix the public staircase but that is still not enough for these greedy and unshameful people. They are threatening me that if I will do it without paying they will break my apartment and pipe and block it. They also threaten with police which they already bribed to show up once.
The Sangkat is looking away and keeps saying I have to talk with those other neighbours. which we of course did, actually over 10 or more times. but they simply want the money because they push me in a corner in a very bad way. They think if he doesn't pay he can't renovate and thus "lost" his property
So I don't want to deal with all this anymore because after 15 months headache it is enough for me. I offer 10% of the sale price if my apartment gets finished and sold. Estimated sale price after I did the renovation is 40k.
if the apartment gets sold for less or more, still 10% of the sale price is what I can offer.
Options:
-bring somebody who can force the sangkat or kahn to speak out on those neighbours after all they made all the legal papers so why look away on this
-bring somebody who can stop these neighbours (put them in the prison for extortion and threats or whatever) or strongly talk with them
-any other suggestions welcome
please PM me or comment for tips
I own an apartment in Psar Thmey II near the central market and trying to do a basic renovation.
I have been through an amazing corrupt and long process for over a year now to get all the paperwork done. (Sangkat + Kahn +Cadastral district and my direct below neighbour thump printing)
The problem I am facing is: unshamefull other below neighbours,
The toilet pipe has to connect to the pipe that everybody is using in my building. (in my case I will connect it to the bathroom of my direct below neighbour. In return I pay this below neighbour 500,-$ and make a new bathroom. This I already agreed on. also signed by sangkat! The only thing is the other people from the 2nd and 3th floor say they don't want to allow me to use the pipe unless I pay 1000,-$ to each family in that building. I have talked with them for months (my khmer helpers) but they don't want to move. I have offered them 300,-$ each and to fix the public staircase but that is still not enough for these greedy and unshameful people. They are threatening me that if I will do it without paying they will break my apartment and pipe and block it. They also threaten with police which they already bribed to show up once.
The Sangkat is looking away and keeps saying I have to talk with those other neighbours. which we of course did, actually over 10 or more times. but they simply want the money because they push me in a corner in a very bad way. They think if he doesn't pay he can't renovate and thus "lost" his property
So I don't want to deal with all this anymore because after 15 months headache it is enough for me. I offer 10% of the sale price if my apartment gets finished and sold. Estimated sale price after I did the renovation is 40k.
if the apartment gets sold for less or more, still 10% of the sale price is what I can offer.
Options:
-bring somebody who can force the sangkat or kahn to speak out on those neighbours after all they made all the legal papers so why look away on this
-bring somebody who can stop these neighbours (put them in the prison for extortion and threats or whatever) or strongly talk with them
-any other suggestions welcome
please PM me or comment for tips
-
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Apartment wrote:They are threatening me that if I will do it without paying they will break my apartment and pipe and block it.
How are they going to break your apartment? Do you mean that they are going to block their own toilet pipe just to spite you? That's hard core.
Out of curiosity, is there any effect on other neighbors if you are added to the pipe? Do they experience more gushing sounds all day long whenever you flush your toilet or something like that? Are they making an argument as to why they should be compensated, or just making financial demands without bothering to state a basis for them?
It's an interesting problem, I'll be curious to see the replies.
Follow my lame Twitter feed: @gavin_mac
What we have here,
is a failure,
to communicate.
The correct charges are much smaller than you allude to.
You don't get on well with your Khmer builder ? Or don't have one ?
is a failure,
to communicate.
The correct charges are much smaller than you allude to.
You don't get on well with your Khmer builder ? Or don't have one ?
- Felgerkarb
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Which is why buy the whole building or don't bother. This will never end. Every leak and problem will be your fault and responsibility.
====================
Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
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But a bunch of foreigners have bought/renovated apartments in recent years. Do most/all get extorted by their neighbors like this?
Maybe one lesson here is to get an agreement with the neighbors to allow you to do what you want before you buy the place.
Maybe one lesson here is to get an agreement with the neighbors to allow you to do what you want before you buy the place.
Follow my lame Twitter feed: @gavin_mac
Thanks gavinmac and others for the fast replies.
-they said they would block the pipe which could be accesible through the public staircase, but they said bunch of things they are just being unreasonable. they also threaten with going to the government and things like that. I told them please do because who would justify these actions of these neighbours? but I think it is just a bit Bullcr*p and part of their game.
- There is no negative effect on their building or pipe if I connect my toilet
-They don't give any reasons they are just a bunch of unshamefull people, pushing me in a corner, normally these kinds of things the Sangkat would take care of, like meetings and talks. but Sangkat Psar Thmey II is not going to make his hands dirty for a barang. Unless somebody could pressure them. with newspaper or so
-The strange thing is the Sangkat already stamped all my papers also for receiving water and electricity, but when I ask them about the toilet than they look away
-They also know that I paid a too high price for my property so I am not making a single dollar here I am loosing only my time and money continuing this. So it can't be jealousy also.
-Yes I have a khmer builder he of course tried to talk a lot with them because he didn't want to loose his project. he also talked with the sangkat several times.
-and yes for anyone reading this thinking about buying in this country. Even when you think it is awkward let ALL the below and side neighbours sign and thumbprint before you buy any property! also Sangkat and Kahn. and contact cadastral office located at the old market. (mr money) There are 3 layers you have to go through, don't be fooled when people say you only need Sangkat.
it is:
1-Sangkat
2-Kahn
3-Cadastral office for the Daun Penh Area properties below 500m2 that is Mr Money p.a. of the director there who never is in his office. Beware this guy is asking you 3000$ for only a Kahn stamp. When I visit the Kahn myself I paid only 150,-$
I find it a missed chance for the country why there is nowhere to go to ask for help, many investors turn their back on the old properties nowadays because of all these kinds of games and troubles.
I decided to get help from the national Cadastre located next to the Ministry. There you can normally only go for properties bigger than 500m2 I asked them for help, instead I was extorted by the engineers visiting my property ordering me if I didn't pay them 1000,-$ they would block my renovation and will write forms that my building is not strong. If I would tell anybody about it they would make big troubles for me. I of course said no problem I can pay but can you also help me with my neighbours they simply said, no you have to pay us otherwise you can't even do anything here. so there is no bribing possible! they are just ROBBERS! It cost me weeks to get back my original Documents that they were holding!!!!
I asked around and they said they have no such authority since they can only decide over properties 500m2 and up. ok nice knowing when you want to start something big here that the National cadastre is even worse than the lower levels!
-they said they would block the pipe which could be accesible through the public staircase, but they said bunch of things they are just being unreasonable. they also threaten with going to the government and things like that. I told them please do because who would justify these actions of these neighbours? but I think it is just a bit Bullcr*p and part of their game.
- There is no negative effect on their building or pipe if I connect my toilet
-They don't give any reasons they are just a bunch of unshamefull people, pushing me in a corner, normally these kinds of things the Sangkat would take care of, like meetings and talks. but Sangkat Psar Thmey II is not going to make his hands dirty for a barang. Unless somebody could pressure them. with newspaper or so
-The strange thing is the Sangkat already stamped all my papers also for receiving water and electricity, but when I ask them about the toilet than they look away
-They also know that I paid a too high price for my property so I am not making a single dollar here I am loosing only my time and money continuing this. So it can't be jealousy also.
-Yes I have a khmer builder he of course tried to talk a lot with them because he didn't want to loose his project. he also talked with the sangkat several times.
-and yes for anyone reading this thinking about buying in this country. Even when you think it is awkward let ALL the below and side neighbours sign and thumbprint before you buy any property! also Sangkat and Kahn. and contact cadastral office located at the old market. (mr money) There are 3 layers you have to go through, don't be fooled when people say you only need Sangkat.
it is:
1-Sangkat
2-Kahn
3-Cadastral office for the Daun Penh Area properties below 500m2 that is Mr Money p.a. of the director there who never is in his office. Beware this guy is asking you 3000$ for only a Kahn stamp. When I visit the Kahn myself I paid only 150,-$
I find it a missed chance for the country why there is nowhere to go to ask for help, many investors turn their back on the old properties nowadays because of all these kinds of games and troubles.
I decided to get help from the national Cadastre located next to the Ministry. There you can normally only go for properties bigger than 500m2 I asked them for help, instead I was extorted by the engineers visiting my property ordering me if I didn't pay them 1000,-$ they would block my renovation and will write forms that my building is not strong. If I would tell anybody about it they would make big troubles for me. I of course said no problem I can pay but can you also help me with my neighbours they simply said, no you have to pay us otherwise you can't even do anything here. so there is no bribing possible! they are just ROBBERS! It cost me weeks to get back my original Documents that they were holding!!!!
I asked around and they said they have no such authority since they can only decide over properties 500m2 and up. ok nice knowing when you want to start something big here that the National cadastre is even worse than the lower levels!
-
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But if they block the pipe, wouldn't they be blocking up their own toilet/pipe, and that of your immediate downstairs neighbor, and other units? Is this really a threat that anyone would go through with?Apartment wrote: -they said they would block the pipe which could be accessible through the public staircase,
I'm curious now, what floor are you on, the fourth? How many units are in the building? What was in your space before, an apartment with no toilet that you renovated?
Follow my lame Twitter feed: @gavin_mac
feel free to pm me and we can have a drink or you can take a look yourself. 4th floor. and they could block the pipe without bothering anybody else since I am on the top floor. but clearing this issue would require some serious local contacts is what I think
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Ok, it sounds like you're on the the fourth floor, and they could block the pipe through the staircase between floors 3 and 4?
I actually have no idea how someone would physically do that. I'm not very manly or good with tools.
If you're on the top floor, maybe you could put a locking gate in the stairwell above the third floor, or perhaps that sort of thing is frowned upon.
I actually have no idea how someone would physically do that. I'm not very manly or good with tools.
If you're on the top floor, maybe you could put a locking gate in the stairwell above the third floor, or perhaps that sort of thing is frowned upon.
Follow my lame Twitter feed: @gavin_mac
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sell;
cut ur loses>
curious
I assume ur a Barang, did u have a Khmer partner thru all this or did it on ur own ( very brave of you if so)
its SE asia,
you have more money than them ( even if u dont ,they know u do)
so its screw the Outsider.
Thank god when I built my home i brought the land ( in a thai's name) an had plenty of space all around my house.
Just getting 3 of my neighbors to agree to give up some land to allow the goverment to would build a road was a pain in the ass
cut ur loses>
curious
I assume ur a Barang, did u have a Khmer partner thru all this or did it on ur own ( very brave of you if so)
its SE asia,
you have more money than them ( even if u dont ,they know u do)
so its screw the Outsider.
Thank god when I built my home i brought the land ( in a thai's name) an had plenty of space all around my house.
Just getting 3 of my neighbors to agree to give up some land to allow the goverment to would build a road was a pain in the ass
"We are turning into a nation of whimpering slaves to Fear—fear of war, fear of poverty, fear of random terrorism, or suddenly getting locked up in a military detention camp on vague charges of being a Terrorist sympathizer." HST
Is it a real level 4 apartment.....the top floor....?
Is the apartment entry off a hallway and similar to the lower floors?
Often the top floor of the older buildings has had unplanned developments or "apartments" that need serious renovations.
There were never intended to be permanent.......
No sinking funds or body corporate organisations here.....your on your own.
I am guessing that this is part of the problem that you may have missed in your due diligence....
The lower floor tenants/owners will not like any interference from a top floor dweller....hence your problems.
These top floor places are really cheap for a reason.......
We own a top floor place near St 146, all soft title - but we have the whole top floor....rented to a local family.
Still difficult to get anything done like staircase repairs or common area cleaning until it is really bad.
Father in law is a builder and even he struggles to get things done.
It is on our list of places to sell later........
Regarding getting someone to fix the politics...it sounds like your diplomacy has failed.
Have you tried a box of beer and BBQ to actually talk with the other owners/tenants?
Throwing money around just makes the problems worse......especially that Central market area....they all see the high prices for property and want it bad..........
On a positive note, I think if you engaged the beers and BBQ method you would help to repair the relationships.
Here the priority is Family, then Relationships, then Law.
That is why the Sangkat, Cadastral officials are a waste of time..........
Good luck.
Is the apartment entry off a hallway and similar to the lower floors?
Often the top floor of the older buildings has had unplanned developments or "apartments" that need serious renovations.
There were never intended to be permanent.......
No sinking funds or body corporate organisations here.....your on your own.
I am guessing that this is part of the problem that you may have missed in your due diligence....
The lower floor tenants/owners will not like any interference from a top floor dweller....hence your problems.
These top floor places are really cheap for a reason.......
We own a top floor place near St 146, all soft title - but we have the whole top floor....rented to a local family.
Still difficult to get anything done like staircase repairs or common area cleaning until it is really bad.
Father in law is a builder and even he struggles to get things done.
It is on our list of places to sell later........
Regarding getting someone to fix the politics...it sounds like your diplomacy has failed.
Have you tried a box of beer and BBQ to actually talk with the other owners/tenants?
Throwing money around just makes the problems worse......especially that Central market area....they all see the high prices for property and want it bad..........
On a positive note, I think if you engaged the beers and BBQ method you would help to repair the relationships.
Here the priority is Family, then Relationships, then Law.
That is why the Sangkat, Cadastral officials are a waste of time..........
Good luck.
You also need a Khmer partner, be it wife, contractor, PA.. That person should have handled all of it from them start. I had a neighbor upstairs with a leaking pipe in an apartment , I sent my guy to handle it, he fixed the leak and retiled their bathroom floor. I never showed my face and probably saved a couple hundred.
The main problem here is that you already agreed to idiotic terms with the first neighbors. Now they all know you were a sucker at least once and are good for it , why would they back down?
My advice: it's a bit late for the beer and bbq thingy. Get a Khmer to offer them , cash in hand, half what they want. It's very hard to turn down cash. Don't get too formal on them with trying for a contract or similar crap, this isn't America, if they take the cash they're accepting the deal. I don't think that at this stage you can get away with less.
The main problem here is that you already agreed to idiotic terms with the first neighbors. Now they all know you were a sucker at least once and are good for it , why would they back down?
My advice: it's a bit late for the beer and bbq thingy. Get a Khmer to offer them , cash in hand, half what they want. It's very hard to turn down cash. Don't get too formal on them with trying for a contract or similar crap, this isn't America, if they take the cash they're accepting the deal. I don't think that at this stage you can get away with less.
Thanks for the answers, that push cash offer sounds good but I am afraid that in this case there will be more snakes crawling from under rocks.. I mean they will accept the cash and than will start allover again finding new things. especially because than there is no proof of payment. The first thing what they did when I came there was complaining the roof was leaking.. Well.. I ( so my khmer builder) told them I will fix my roof but will also connect the pipe They suddenly said roof is fine. while it is actually leaking like crazy. they not give up.. they also don't want to negotiate it seems
I had some other ideas.. Apparently a person can't live there according to the Sangkat because they don't want to speak out on it..
maybe an animal could? Make it a place for poor street dogs or make an Urban chicken farm there..
or make it a Tourist Attraction? first of all organize 100 people from this forum to visit it.. making pictures from the neighbours and so on..
I had some other ideas.. Apparently a person can't live there according to the Sangkat because they don't want to speak out on it..
maybe an animal could? Make it a place for poor street dogs or make an Urban chicken farm there..
or make it a Tourist Attraction? first of all organize 100 people from this forum to visit it.. making pictures from the neighbours and so on..
Just do your bloody renovation without asking any village idiot if they want money. if they do something stupid after for 3.000 $ you can get an entire team of armed policeman showing up threatening to arrest them and all the advocates letters threatening lawsuits that you need. Just let them understand that you are a serious person and that they have more to lose than to gain from you and later you can have all the lovely barbeque. Also depends if you actually plan to live there or just rent it out. If it is purely for investment you can afford be rude if you want to live there... Less so.
Anyway if you are so distraught with the place and you want to sell it at a low price you can pm me
Anyway if you are so distraught with the place and you want to sell it at a low price you can pm me