Honda "Super Chaly" (Chaly Restoration Thread)
^^When I can open my own carbon fiber facility
Cambodian F1, that's sounds like fun
Cambodian F1, that's sounds like fun
Reckless driving cucumber - 成
Only had 15 minutes to work on it today.
There's a pretty piston . Misc reason why a lot of Hondas are quite reliable, they make use of very low compression ratios and hence, much lower stress on the bottom end, pin, etc. In stock form, a C100 Dream would yield a 7.8:1 compression ratio, whereas my current bike has a 10.6:1 ratio.
This combo should yield roughly a "modest" 9:1 CR, which is about as high as you want to go when you can't depend as much on consistent fuel octane. Efficient and powerful enough, but not stupid high.
Assembled the shock tower and adapters together. 7.5 W oil filled to 80ml (firmer than stock, which is 70ml). New seals and dust shields of course.
Pressed in the bearings and siliconed the dust shield in. Also painted the center hub but that was yesterday I think.
Installed the rear struts. They sit lower than I want...
Hope to have more than a few minutes tomorrow.
There's a pretty piston . Misc reason why a lot of Hondas are quite reliable, they make use of very low compression ratios and hence, much lower stress on the bottom end, pin, etc. In stock form, a C100 Dream would yield a 7.8:1 compression ratio, whereas my current bike has a 10.6:1 ratio.
This combo should yield roughly a "modest" 9:1 CR, which is about as high as you want to go when you can't depend as much on consistent fuel octane. Efficient and powerful enough, but not stupid high.
Assembled the shock tower and adapters together. 7.5 W oil filled to 80ml (firmer than stock, which is 70ml). New seals and dust shields of course.
Pressed in the bearings and siliconed the dust shield in. Also painted the center hub but that was yesterday I think.
Installed the rear struts. They sit lower than I want...
Hope to have more than a few minutes tomorrow.
Reckless driving cucumber - 成
AK, thought about something like this?
Emerging market in Cambodia - starting to see a few around and they're popular.
These examples are not 'here', though...
https://www.facebook.com/roguebuilds
http://roguebuilds.us/
Emerging market in Cambodia - starting to see a few around and they're popular.
These examples are not 'here', though...
https://www.facebook.com/roguebuilds
http://roguebuilds.us/
^^I'm honestly not a big fan, but my tastes are much closer to the boring side. Almost all of my "builds", both cars and bikes, leans towards a stock look with "improvements". i.e. This Chaly isn't meant to be much different looking than an original version, just improved in areas that I would have liked to have seen addressed from the factory such as the flimsy pressed front forks, no rust proofing, thin factory paint, etc.
So while I'd never build a bike like that, I respect the person who builds those bikes for sure. Clean work.
Anyway, today was a complete "fix the mistakes" day.
I pressed the front wheel bearings in and forgot to put in the shaft collar, so I had to knock out and destroy this guy.
Then as I when to test run the motor on my Cub, I found it had almost no compression. When attempting to tighten the head studs down (they seemed loose), one of them snapped clean off. Seems that buying Taiwanese head studs was not a good idea as they all (overnight) had stretched, so I had to disassemble the top end and reinstall a used set of originals. Reassembled the top end.
Then I found that because I had installed shocks from a Wave on the front that I forgot to take into account that I'd needed a wider axle to fit, so that left me with nowhere to go but to the kitchen and make some dinner instead.
Here's how it sits.
So while I'd never build a bike like that, I respect the person who builds those bikes for sure. Clean work.
Anyway, today was a complete "fix the mistakes" day.
I pressed the front wheel bearings in and forgot to put in the shaft collar, so I had to knock out and destroy this guy.
Then as I when to test run the motor on my Cub, I found it had almost no compression. When attempting to tighten the head studs down (they seemed loose), one of them snapped clean off. Seems that buying Taiwanese head studs was not a good idea as they all (overnight) had stretched, so I had to disassemble the top end and reinstall a used set of originals. Reassembled the top end.
Then I found that because I had installed shocks from a Wave on the front that I forgot to take into account that I'd needed a wider axle to fit, so that left me with nowhere to go but to the kitchen and make some dinner instead.
Here's how it sits.
Reckless driving cucumber - 成
Reckless driving cucumber - 成
Sorry it's taken a while, I've been busy.
Took care of the birds nest but haven't been able to wire in the HID kit. There's remarkably little space under the Chaly's "boot".
Exhaust, oiled up, misc bits and pieces installed and...
It runs and is alive. Not finished, but the motor and such feels great and it's very enjoyable to have a little extra grunt. It's by no means fast, but it's entertaining to say the least.
I think the "90" motor is a lot better suited to the Chaly than the 110 was. I like the little case look much more than the big case (width of the motor), the power is more "reasonable", meaning you don't skid the back tire every time you downshift, and surprisingly the bike has a nice feel around town. Now that I have a tach, I can tell that I can stay under 3,000 rpms just putting around to the shops and back.
**EDIT** Now that the rings have somewhat seated, this thing is just as bad if not worse than my old 110 Chaly was in terms of skids. Really, anything "big bore" is too much compression for the wee tires to handle.
Will take more pictures later on as I button it up together and do a full on "review" on how it behaves and what I needed to make it work. It took a lot of work and wasn't a straightforward swap in the least bit though, so it's not for the faint of heart.
Took care of the birds nest but haven't been able to wire in the HID kit. There's remarkably little space under the Chaly's "boot".
Exhaust, oiled up, misc bits and pieces installed and...
It runs and is alive. Not finished, but the motor and such feels great and it's very enjoyable to have a little extra grunt. It's by no means fast, but it's entertaining to say the least.
I think the "90" motor is a lot better suited to the Chaly than the 110 was. I like the little case look much more than the big case (width of the motor), the power is more "reasonable", meaning you don't skid the back tire every time you downshift, and surprisingly the bike has a nice feel around town. Now that I have a tach, I can tell that I can stay under 3,000 rpms just putting around to the shops and back.
**EDIT** Now that the rings have somewhat seated, this thing is just as bad if not worse than my old 110 Chaly was in terms of skids. Really, anything "big bore" is too much compression for the wee tires to handle.
Will take more pictures later on as I button it up together and do a full on "review" on how it behaves and what I needed to make it work. It took a lot of work and wasn't a straightforward swap in the least bit though, so it's not for the faint of heart.
Last edited by AE86 on Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reckless driving cucumber - 成
Two drink bottle holders? How far do you intend to ride this thing?!
Great guide though, better than a Haynes manual.
Great guide though, better than a Haynes manual.
Looks good and clean.
I still think that 2 seats on one of those is 1.5 seats too many, though.
I still think that 2 seats on one of those is 1.5 seats too many, though.
"Wrap up"
Here's the "end" result.
102cc motor (51mm bore x 50mm stroke)
Carburetor is a Keihin PZ19 (19mm, the 22mm was no good for fitment as the choke lever collided with the frame). The PZ19 comes in the C90 Super Cub.
**Intake is a modified C50 intake bored out to 18mm and an added spacer so the carb would sit further back so the stock air filter box could be used.
**Jetting are stock Wave 110 jets, not sure of the sizes.
Fitment was very very tight and annoying to get right. There was a lot of trimming involved, but ultimately I got what I wanted, and that was a stock "concealed" look.
Pipe is a cheap knock off but so light (1 kg) that I've grown to like it.
My deception sticker, although technically it still uses the C50 cases, so it's sort of true.
Here's how it sits now in all it's glory. (front mudguard and signal lamps still needs to be mounted)
Total estimated cost: (not including the bike)
$634
If built with a mix of Taiwanese parts and Honda Thailand parts, the build could be done for $250-325 I believe.
Breakdown:
Cylinder head Super Cub 100 head. $80 (from Japan. Taiwanese versions are around $20 give or take)
51mm barrel and piston $60 (from Japan. Here the Taiwanese versions 47mm-50mm are around $14 I think)
Keihim PZ19 carburetor (Honda Vietnamese built, $58)
Honda TRX90 oil pump (Honda OEM, $30)
C100 crankshaft set $76 (bearings were $12, conrod was $9 Taiwanese, the unit was $55)
Gearbox bearings NTN ($20 estimate, I can't remember exactly the price but it's around there)
Clutch pack $58 (Takegawa reinforced pack)
Clutch plates $20 (Honda OEM)
Clutch spring set ($10? I brought them from abroad)
DID chain set, $12 (13t front, WAY TOO SHORT)
Rear 28t sprocket $5
Wave 100 shocks (used), $20 a set.
Brake shoes ($12 I think), Honda OEM Thailand
Wheel bearings $15 (Honda OEM)
Tachometer $10 (used Chinese bike)
Paint $45, little bit left over (automotive grade and extremely heavy usage. 8 coats of color, 10 coats of clear)
Rear wheel (used, $30)
Misc bits (rubber parts, light bulbs, wire, misc nut and bolts, etc) probably $10.
Stuff bought but not installed
LED indicator lamps ($18, stock look but much brighter)
HID kit $20 (Taiwanese built, no idea of quality)
Tires $25 (tubes and tires, DURO brand Thailand)
Time spent, roughly 18 hours. However I am very used to working on Hondas to begin with, so your results may vary.
REVIEW:
What's it like?
So, for a grand total of just under $1,000 ($700 if you go slightly cheaper on parts) and 20 hours or so of work, what I have ended up with in a 60 kg bike with about 10 horsepower after jetting and ignition timing were adjusted. Honestly, that's not really much to brag about and the bike is indeed still very slow, but it does manage to keep pace with the MSXs and the freshy boys, and even managed to win it's first race against one. In town it's addictive as it's little size have always made it extremely easy to maneuver anywhere, but now there's finally power to be able to merge, overtake, and surprise a few kids when you wheelie it in 2nd gear. No, it can't do that under it's own power... However, in all the bike is a blast and very enjoyable to me and I am happy with it.
However, to be honest, this bike isn't really an enjoyable riding experience as its' very small wheels, very firm suspension and very "bitey" engine tend to make it feel as if it's asking me why I gave it "so much" power. With the semi automatic gearbox, the rear tire is entirely too happy to skid on decel, and on hard acceleration, the bike is very "jumpy". 260 lbs (both me and the Chaly's combined weight) makes barely double digit horsepower a lot more "scary" than you'd expect. Now I wont pretend and say this is a speed demon that can take on a turbo charged Porsche or even a turbo charged Scoopy, but whenever you ride this thing around, you can't help but feel there's a little too much engine underneath not enough bike. 100cc is slow in a Daelim, but in Chaly it feels like the motor wants to jump out and find it's way over to a real sized bike.
And by the way, the vibrations are frankly horrendous if you want to cruise at any reasonable speed. 30 minutes of "crusing" at 6-7k rpm and my hands and feet where numb.
Was it worth it?
Frankly? No.
The money actually wasn't the biggest issue (I've spent WAY MORE on Cubs before as my last Cub took $1,100 just to build it), but for me the reason it wasn't worth it is because it took a lot of work and "engineering" for a very one dimensional bike. I'll explain. Had I not had as much experience (meaning: wasted time and money) with Hondas, this project would not have gone nearly as "smoothly" as it did, and even though for me I think it was a bit too much work for what at the end of the day is only really a good bike for the city. The If I had to do it over again, I'd have opted for a different project altogether, or at least tried to figure a way to squeeze a 4 or 5 speed gearbox and a much taller final drive.
Should you attempt it if you want to?
That's a big NO!!
However, that doesn't mean it's hard to make a Chaly faster, but if you want to do it the way I did...don't be stupid. The only reason I built the 100cc motor out of a 50cc engine is to keep it looking stock. It's relatively easy to drop a 100cc Wave engine in, but then it sticks out in all sorts of funny ways (carburetor out the top, clutch cover out the sides, etc), and that's not my "style". I don't like easy and I don't like the heavily modified look.
If you want the whole list of things you need to do to fit a 100 plus cc top end on a C50 case...pay me. Jk, but essentially, at least 80% of the original 50cc motor had to be scrapped and replaced with various parts from different bikes, or believe it or not, quad bikes (haha, the oil pump is from a TRX90).
So what's the conclusion?
My conclusion is that it feels completely unnatural and ridiculous, not because it's fast (because it isn't), but because it's too damn small of a bike for even as little as 10 horsepower and that it makes a useless "speed machine" (which is the point of more power right?) since the vibrations and short gearing of the bike are enough to kill anyone's wrists after 5 minutes. However, if I had time to make a taller final drive rear sprocket and add a 4th gear, then I think we might be getting somewhere as then the bike wouldn't be so jerky and 40-50 kph+ wouldn't be so murderous on the hands. In all though, it was fun to build, and in the end I am happy to ride it around and brag to no one that I have the most powerful Chaly in Phnom Penh (that I know of...). However, the point wasn't to make anything really useful, it was to make a 100cc Chaly and have fun while doing it, and that's what ultimately happened so I am not complaining.
That's that for now, until next build...
Akira S. "AK87"
Here's the "end" result.
102cc motor (51mm bore x 50mm stroke)
Carburetor is a Keihin PZ19 (19mm, the 22mm was no good for fitment as the choke lever collided with the frame). The PZ19 comes in the C90 Super Cub.
**Intake is a modified C50 intake bored out to 18mm and an added spacer so the carb would sit further back so the stock air filter box could be used.
**Jetting are stock Wave 110 jets, not sure of the sizes.
Fitment was very very tight and annoying to get right. There was a lot of trimming involved, but ultimately I got what I wanted, and that was a stock "concealed" look.
Pipe is a cheap knock off but so light (1 kg) that I've grown to like it.
My deception sticker, although technically it still uses the C50 cases, so it's sort of true.
Here's how it sits now in all it's glory. (front mudguard and signal lamps still needs to be mounted)
Total estimated cost: (not including the bike)
$634
If built with a mix of Taiwanese parts and Honda Thailand parts, the build could be done for $250-325 I believe.
Breakdown:
Cylinder head Super Cub 100 head. $80 (from Japan. Taiwanese versions are around $20 give or take)
51mm barrel and piston $60 (from Japan. Here the Taiwanese versions 47mm-50mm are around $14 I think)
Keihim PZ19 carburetor (Honda Vietnamese built, $58)
Honda TRX90 oil pump (Honda OEM, $30)
C100 crankshaft set $76 (bearings were $12, conrod was $9 Taiwanese, the unit was $55)
Gearbox bearings NTN ($20 estimate, I can't remember exactly the price but it's around there)
Clutch pack $58 (Takegawa reinforced pack)
Clutch plates $20 (Honda OEM)
Clutch spring set ($10? I brought them from abroad)
DID chain set, $12 (13t front, WAY TOO SHORT)
Rear 28t sprocket $5
Wave 100 shocks (used), $20 a set.
Brake shoes ($12 I think), Honda OEM Thailand
Wheel bearings $15 (Honda OEM)
Tachometer $10 (used Chinese bike)
Paint $45, little bit left over (automotive grade and extremely heavy usage. 8 coats of color, 10 coats of clear)
Rear wheel (used, $30)
Misc bits (rubber parts, light bulbs, wire, misc nut and bolts, etc) probably $10.
Stuff bought but not installed
LED indicator lamps ($18, stock look but much brighter)
HID kit $20 (Taiwanese built, no idea of quality)
Tires $25 (tubes and tires, DURO brand Thailand)
Time spent, roughly 18 hours. However I am very used to working on Hondas to begin with, so your results may vary.
REVIEW:
What's it like?
So, for a grand total of just under $1,000 ($700 if you go slightly cheaper on parts) and 20 hours or so of work, what I have ended up with in a 60 kg bike with about 10 horsepower after jetting and ignition timing were adjusted. Honestly, that's not really much to brag about and the bike is indeed still very slow, but it does manage to keep pace with the MSXs and the freshy boys, and even managed to win it's first race against one. In town it's addictive as it's little size have always made it extremely easy to maneuver anywhere, but now there's finally power to be able to merge, overtake, and surprise a few kids when you wheelie it in 2nd gear. No, it can't do that under it's own power... However, in all the bike is a blast and very enjoyable to me and I am happy with it.
However, to be honest, this bike isn't really an enjoyable riding experience as its' very small wheels, very firm suspension and very "bitey" engine tend to make it feel as if it's asking me why I gave it "so much" power. With the semi automatic gearbox, the rear tire is entirely too happy to skid on decel, and on hard acceleration, the bike is very "jumpy". 260 lbs (both me and the Chaly's combined weight) makes barely double digit horsepower a lot more "scary" than you'd expect. Now I wont pretend and say this is a speed demon that can take on a turbo charged Porsche or even a turbo charged Scoopy, but whenever you ride this thing around, you can't help but feel there's a little too much engine underneath not enough bike. 100cc is slow in a Daelim, but in Chaly it feels like the motor wants to jump out and find it's way over to a real sized bike.
And by the way, the vibrations are frankly horrendous if you want to cruise at any reasonable speed. 30 minutes of "crusing" at 6-7k rpm and my hands and feet where numb.
Was it worth it?
Frankly? No.
The money actually wasn't the biggest issue (I've spent WAY MORE on Cubs before as my last Cub took $1,100 just to build it), but for me the reason it wasn't worth it is because it took a lot of work and "engineering" for a very one dimensional bike. I'll explain. Had I not had as much experience (meaning: wasted time and money) with Hondas, this project would not have gone nearly as "smoothly" as it did, and even though for me I think it was a bit too much work for what at the end of the day is only really a good bike for the city. The If I had to do it over again, I'd have opted for a different project altogether, or at least tried to figure a way to squeeze a 4 or 5 speed gearbox and a much taller final drive.
Should you attempt it if you want to?
That's a big NO!!
However, that doesn't mean it's hard to make a Chaly faster, but if you want to do it the way I did...don't be stupid. The only reason I built the 100cc motor out of a 50cc engine is to keep it looking stock. It's relatively easy to drop a 100cc Wave engine in, but then it sticks out in all sorts of funny ways (carburetor out the top, clutch cover out the sides, etc), and that's not my "style". I don't like easy and I don't like the heavily modified look.
If you want the whole list of things you need to do to fit a 100 plus cc top end on a C50 case...pay me. Jk, but essentially, at least 80% of the original 50cc motor had to be scrapped and replaced with various parts from different bikes, or believe it or not, quad bikes (haha, the oil pump is from a TRX90).
So what's the conclusion?
My conclusion is that it feels completely unnatural and ridiculous, not because it's fast (because it isn't), but because it's too damn small of a bike for even as little as 10 horsepower and that it makes a useless "speed machine" (which is the point of more power right?) since the vibrations and short gearing of the bike are enough to kill anyone's wrists after 5 minutes. However, if I had time to make a taller final drive rear sprocket and add a 4th gear, then I think we might be getting somewhere as then the bike wouldn't be so jerky and 40-50 kph+ wouldn't be so murderous on the hands. In all though, it was fun to build, and in the end I am happy to ride it around and brag to no one that I have the most powerful Chaly in Phnom Penh (that I know of...). However, the point wasn't to make anything really useful, it was to make a 100cc Chaly and have fun while doing it, and that's what ultimately happened so I am not complaining.
That's that for now, until next build...
Akira S. "AK87"
Reckless driving cucumber - 成
Haha, one for water, one for petrol. I don't have a fuel gauge.epidemiks wrote:Two drink bottle holders? How far do you intend to ride this thing?!
Reckless driving cucumber - 成
- Lucky Lucan
- K440 Knight Captain
- Reactions: 761
- Posts: 22525
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:24 pm
- Location: The Pearl of the Orient
I've seen a load of customized Chalys but I admire the way you went out of your way to preserve the basic integrity of the design. Great job there, the bike looks excellent.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
I loved the good photog, honest appraisal and the mistakes. Minsk next? I think there is a lot you can do with a Minsk (including throwing it away).
Great thread I give it three would have been if you had installed the jet engine instead.
Great thread I give it three would have been if you had installed the jet engine instead.
K440 : Lucky cheese for the gentry; poultry and death for the peasants.
"Reading made Don Quixote a gentleman. Believing what he read made him mad."
"Reading made Don Quixote a gentleman. Believing what he read made him mad."
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