Land Grabbing in focus...
I would think that most Cambodians in this country would know someone by now, directly or indirectly that has been the victims of land grabs!
But they will still vote for the same people to stay in power!
Maybe in 20 years time, but there will be no positive changes for a good while!
But they will still vote for the same people to stay in power!
Maybe in 20 years time, but there will be no positive changes for a good while!
- LTO
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Yes, given that "a half million have been affected," one would think that.Juan King wrote:I would think that most Cambodians in this country would know someone by now, directly or indirectly that has been the victims of land grabs!?...
Interesting contrast. To what might that be attributed?Juan King wrote:But they will still vote for the same people to stay in power!...
- OrangeDragon
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i actually posed this question to my wife as we cruised through her families village and i saw CCP propoganda signs up in several places.
i asked her "if he's going to give away their homes, why are they still supporting him?"
her response was simple "they don't believe it's true."
turns out, none of them believe it's going to happen to them, until it does.
i asked her "if he's going to give away their homes, why are they still supporting him?"
her response was simple "they don't believe it's true."
turns out, none of them believe it's going to happen to them, until it does.
Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.
Robert H. Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette
Robert H. Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette
OD, I agree with your concerns for your in-laws, so understand my comments are not meant to undermine that situation.OrangeDragon wrote:Another issue i've seen is the definition of "state" land. I've cited in another thread my in-laws here. They worked their land since before the KR came, during, and now after... and are at risk. ...
..... it's just that in the west people are compensated with a fair market value instead of being driven out with clubs and guns.
How were your ancestors land claims treated? Honest question, I don't know your tribe. My guess is pretty shitty.
I own an Island in Georgian Bay purchased from the Canadian Gov in 1958 for $200 by my Dad in a closed bid. Thing is they (gov) didn't really own it, they were "helping" our natives by helping themselves. The treaties "The British" had with the natives were actually an agreement to LEASE that land. In 1905 the Gov secretly decided to convert LEASED to OWNED Crown Land, since no one would notice, because of the diseased TB blankets we gave the indians as gifts, decimated their population. This issue is still not resolved because the Gov will not let it go to court for a resolution.
These inequities happen World Wide. ( Ozzieland ? ) The ruling Cambo leaders are aware, i'm sure, of our NA history but even more so of the China Model of land redistribution.
Not saying I condone it, just IMHO everybody is fucked. To bad the Generals lost their land, there's nothing worse than a Bought deal not staying Bought. Now that's really fu'kn criminal.
The Earth is degenerating these days. Bribery and corruption abound.
Children no longer mind their parents, every man wants to write a book,
and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching.
--Assyrian Stone Tablet, c.2800 BCE
Children no longer mind their parents, every man wants to write a book,
and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching.
--Assyrian Stone Tablet, c.2800 BCE
- Uncle Monty
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Well said, this happens worldwide.Milord wrote: These inequities happen World Wide. ( Ozzieland ? ) The ruling Cambo leaders are aware, i'm sure, of our NA history but even more so of the China Model of land redistribution.
Dictated to a slave and sent by carrier pigeon.
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There's no credible opposition. Due to our experience my wife is now a conscientious objector (i.e. refuses to vote for any party).Juan King wrote:I would think that most Cambodians in this country would know someone by now, directly or indirectly that has been the victims of land grabs!
But they will still vote for the same people to stay in power!
Maybe in 20 years time, but there will be no positive changes for a good while!
I came, I argued, I'm out
Uncle Monty wrote:Well said, this happens worldwide.Milord wrote: These inequities happen World Wide. ( Ozzieland ? ) The ruling Cambo leaders are aware, i'm sure, of our NA history but even more so of the China Model of land redistribution.
Good grab. Haven't read it all yet but reminds me that the Bush Family bought 100,000 acres in Paraguay.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/oc ... omphillips
..."Some have speculated that he might be trying to wrestle control of the Guarani Aquifer, one of the largest underground water reserves, from the Paraguayans." ... was in Paraguay to "visit the land acquired by her father - relatively close to the Brazilian Pantanal [wetlands] and the Bolivian gas reserves".
AND
http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index955.htm
The American President’s daughter had used the cover of a United Nations group to ‘cover’ her mission to Paraguay to arrange this massive land purchase, and as we can see confirmed by the Associated Press News Service in their article titled "Jenna Bush joins UNICEF program in Paraguay", and which says:
"Jenna Bush came to this poor, landlocked South American country to take part in a UNICEF program for young professionals who volunteer in its activities here, the U.N. organization announced Monday. UNICEF released few details about the program involving the 24-year-old daughter of U.S. President George W. Bush, citing security concerns."
These reports suggest the these actions being taken by the Bush Family are in response to the expected War Crime Charges being filed by the International Committee for the Red Cross, and which we had reported on in our October 15, 2005 report titled ‘War Crimes’ Portfolio against United States President, Vice President and Defense Secretary Opened By International Committee of the Red Cross Charging ‘Crimes Against Humanity’, ....
Well, well, well. Another do gooder volunteer "helping" the poor.
The Earth is degenerating these days. Bribery and corruption abound.
Children no longer mind their parents, every man wants to write a book,
and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching.
--Assyrian Stone Tablet, c.2800 BCE
Children no longer mind their parents, every man wants to write a book,
and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching.
--Assyrian Stone Tablet, c.2800 BCE
- vladimir
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The Bush family fucking over developing countries: bet that's never happened before.
God bless America.
They must have democracy! (but only if they have oil)
God bless America.
They must have democracy! (but only if they have oil)
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
I wonder how many poor families had to "move" from "their" land?vladimir wrote:The Bush family fucking over developing countries: bet that's never happened before.
God bless America.
They must have democracy! (but only if they have oil)
The Earth is degenerating these days. Bribery and corruption abound.
Children no longer mind their parents, every man wants to write a book,
and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching.
--Assyrian Stone Tablet, c.2800 BCE
Children no longer mind their parents, every man wants to write a book,
and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching.
--Assyrian Stone Tablet, c.2800 BCE
It would be a good idea in the case of a new land concession,
if the government would swoop in and determine who has a claim to be
excepted from the loss of their land. The concession holders don't usually
need every meter of land, and they benefit from the shops and clusters of population.
HE has started using student surveyors to accomplish this. HE said that there
is some kind of "hold up" preventing the local appointed people from doing the job.
The appointed people say that it would take years to do the job on a single land
concession because they work slow.
Cambodia was a Kingdom. That means that no one owned their land. They may have
had a production agreement with the king, but the king owned all.
What is good for Cambodia is to get the land into private hands. So big land deals
actually benefit all Cambodians, and immediate title for those who have claims further
benefit all Cambodians.
if the government would swoop in and determine who has a claim to be
excepted from the loss of their land. The concession holders don't usually
need every meter of land, and they benefit from the shops and clusters of population.
HE has started using student surveyors to accomplish this. HE said that there
is some kind of "hold up" preventing the local appointed people from doing the job.
The appointed people say that it would take years to do the job on a single land
concession because they work slow.
Cambodia was a Kingdom. That means that no one owned their land. They may have
had a production agreement with the king, but the king owned all.
What is good for Cambodia is to get the land into private hands. So big land deals
actually benefit all Cambodians, and immediate title for those who have claims further
benefit all Cambodians.
- vladimir
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I have heard that the (old) KR destroyed all title deeds to land.
Why? To bring it all under the control of the state, or to avenge past land grabs? Or both?
Why? To bring it all under the control of the state, or to avenge past land grabs? Or both?
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
- Jacked Camry
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The KR abolished all private ownership and destroyed all the records. Not only that, they reparceled the land in many places both as part of their agricultural production plans and as part of their strategy to remove any ties the people would have to it. Post-KR, the land was briefly under communal agriculture but soon reverted to private farming, with local village leaders dividing it up among the people. Thus, there are few who would be farming what they used to own in the 1960s and if they owned more than others they would have lost their claim since the redistribution was based on family size mostly.vladimir wrote:I have heard that the (old) KR destroyed all title deeds to land.
Why? To bring it all under the control of the state, or to avenge past land grabs? Or both?
Land was traded through the 1980s and 1990s although it was hardly a booming market, even in the cities. The new land titles are replacing the village records that currently serve as ownership documents in places where the program hasn't gone yet.
One misconception regarding the concessions is that they have not been granted the entire area that is on the map. That is the area within which they are supposed to find land for their project but not including the land that is farmed by local villagers. At least, that is the theory. The practice is where it usually goes awry.
- LTO
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Good thing they have us clever barang around to set them straight.OrangeDragon wrote:i actually posed this question to my wife as we cruised through her families village and i saw CCP propoganda signs up in several places.
i asked her "if he's going to give away their homes, why are they still supporting him?"
her response was simple "they don't believe it's true."
turns out, none of them believe it's going to happen to them, until it does.
Chinese Cambodian >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Cambodian
I found this article very enlightening. History repeating itself.
.... (in) early 1970s, they were the largest ethnic minority in Cambodia; there were an estimated 425,000. However, by 1984, there were only 61,400 Chinese Cambodians left. ....
Chinese Cambodians play a leading role in the Cambodian business sector as well as within Cambodia's political scene. ...
Most Chinese Cambodian moneylenders wield considerable economic power over the ethnic Khmer peasants through usury. Studies in the 1950s revealed that Chinese shopkeepers in Cambodia would sell to peasants on credit at interest rates of 10-20% a month. This might have been the reason why seventy-five percent of the peasants in Cambodia were in debt in 1952, according to the Australian Colonial Credit Office. There seemed to be little distinction between Chinese and Sino-Khmer (offspring of mixed Chinese and Khmer descent) in the moneylending and shopkeeping enterprises. Chinese Cambodian entrepreneurs are also estimated to control 70% of the industrial investment and are actively engaged in trading, construction, small-scale manufacturing, and food processing.[6]
Of particular note is China's economic role in the country,[3] which encouraged Sino-Khmer businessmen to reestablish their past business which were once suppressed by the Khmer Rouge. Modern Cambodian economy is highly dependent on Sino-Khmer companies who controlled a large stake in the country's economy,[7] and their support is enhanced by the large presence of lawmakers who are of at least part-Chinese ancestry themselves.[8] The position of the Chinese minority has undergone a dramatic turn for the better and the Chinese seem to have regained much of their previous economic clout. For various reasons, including the growing economic collaboration between China and Cambodia and the huge investments being made by Chinese companies, the Chinese community has seen its numbers expand dramatically in the 2000s (decade).
IMHO, If I was in the "Sino-Khmer" Group that controlled 70% of the country by 1970, and got fucked over and lost 86% of MY TRIBE (425,000>>>61,400) ... THEN, when I had clawed my tribes way back into CONTROL, I would not give a fuck who got hurt nor how I did it. Sound reasonable ?
I found this article very enlightening. History repeating itself.
.... (in) early 1970s, they were the largest ethnic minority in Cambodia; there were an estimated 425,000. However, by 1984, there were only 61,400 Chinese Cambodians left. ....
Chinese Cambodians play a leading role in the Cambodian business sector as well as within Cambodia's political scene. ...
Most Chinese Cambodian moneylenders wield considerable economic power over the ethnic Khmer peasants through usury. Studies in the 1950s revealed that Chinese shopkeepers in Cambodia would sell to peasants on credit at interest rates of 10-20% a month. This might have been the reason why seventy-five percent of the peasants in Cambodia were in debt in 1952, according to the Australian Colonial Credit Office. There seemed to be little distinction between Chinese and Sino-Khmer (offspring of mixed Chinese and Khmer descent) in the moneylending and shopkeeping enterprises. Chinese Cambodian entrepreneurs are also estimated to control 70% of the industrial investment and are actively engaged in trading, construction, small-scale manufacturing, and food processing.[6]
Of particular note is China's economic role in the country,[3] which encouraged Sino-Khmer businessmen to reestablish their past business which were once suppressed by the Khmer Rouge. Modern Cambodian economy is highly dependent on Sino-Khmer companies who controlled a large stake in the country's economy,[7] and their support is enhanced by the large presence of lawmakers who are of at least part-Chinese ancestry themselves.[8] The position of the Chinese minority has undergone a dramatic turn for the better and the Chinese seem to have regained much of their previous economic clout. For various reasons, including the growing economic collaboration between China and Cambodia and the huge investments being made by Chinese companies, the Chinese community has seen its numbers expand dramatically in the 2000s (decade).
IMHO, If I was in the "Sino-Khmer" Group that controlled 70% of the country by 1970, and got fucked over and lost 86% of MY TRIBE (425,000>>>61,400) ... THEN, when I had clawed my tribes way back into CONTROL, I would not give a fuck who got hurt nor how I did it. Sound reasonable ?
The Earth is degenerating these days. Bribery and corruption abound.
Children no longer mind their parents, every man wants to write a book,
and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching.
--Assyrian Stone Tablet, c.2800 BCE
Children no longer mind their parents, every man wants to write a book,
and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching.
--Assyrian Stone Tablet, c.2800 BCE
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