Do you guys teach "who" and "whom"?
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- 2000+ Posts! Aghh I Have No Mates
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Whom gives a fuck?
Nothing but an opinionated tourist. The Pope spends more time in countries than I do ! It is also not my place to comment on a gentleman's dress. A real 23 minute wonder, that obviously knows little about ovens and cooking in Cambodia.
You'd have to teach it at higher levels (probably B1+) when written correspondence comes into play a lot more. Most likely as part of the opening salutation "To Whom it may concern......"
- vladimir
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Seriously, when did any of you actually write a letter last?
Business letters are dead, cover letters are the closest you'll get nowadays.
You'd be shot for writing 'To whom it may concern', they'd tell you if you can't use Google, you're an idiot.
Business letters are dead, cover letters are the closest you'll get nowadays.
You'd be shot for writing 'To whom it may concern', they'd tell you if you can't use Google, you're an idiot.
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
I disagree Vlad, it is THE standard opening salutation when corresponding in a business context and you don't know the recipients name. I also disagree that business letters are dead - maybe in Cambodia, but back in the real world electronic correspondence is not always appropriate.
- Lucky Lucan
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Sure, and I would have thought it was standard for emails when you don't know the recipient's name too.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
- vladimir
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Agree, but the OP's question was directed at people here, and Cambodia is not the real world.Teach-er wrote:I disagree Vlad, it is THE standard opening salutation when corresponding in a business context and you don't know the recipients name. I also disagree that business letters are dead - maybe in Cambodia, but back in the real world electronic correspondence is not always appropriate.
Lewis Carrol would call DEA if he read page one of the CD.
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
- Miguelito
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There is a difference, and native / advanced speakers can tell when it is used incorrectly. Of course there are situations where in everyday speech "who" sounds better (and less pompous) than the correct "whom." A good example is The Doors getting it wrong, as it should be "Whom do You Love?" But that sounds kind of funny.
Most of the time it's not that complicated:
Who should be used to refer to the subject of a sentence.
Whom should be used to refer to the object of a sentence.
When in doubt, if you can replace the word with ‘he’ or ‘she,’ use who. If you can replace it with ‘him’ or ‘her,’ use whom. Or answer the question: Who/Whom do you love? I love him. So it's whom.
But for those that think it's all archaic, don't forget that whom can be obligatory: when it is preceded by quantifiers such as all of, both of, few of, many of, several of, etc. For example: Congratulations to all K440 members, most of whom are cunts.
Most of the time it's not that complicated:
Who should be used to refer to the subject of a sentence.
Whom should be used to refer to the object of a sentence.
When in doubt, if you can replace the word with ‘he’ or ‘she,’ use who. If you can replace it with ‘him’ or ‘her,’ use whom. Or answer the question: Who/Whom do you love? I love him. So it's whom.
But for those that think it's all archaic, don't forget that whom can be obligatory: when it is preceded by quantifiers such as all of, both of, few of, many of, several of, etc. For example: Congratulations to all K440 members, most of whom are cunts.
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- Making Khmer girls cry since 2003
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I would use Dear Sir or Madam.Teach-er wrote:I disagree Vlad, it is THE standard opening salutation when corresponding in a business context and you don't know the recipients name.
Follow my lame Twitter feed: @gavin_mac
"To whom it may concern" as a common letter intro might well be a British (or non-US) thing. Seen it all the time in the UK, never anywhere else.gavinmac wrote:I would use Dear Sir or Madam.Teach-er wrote:I disagree Vlad, it is THE standard opening salutation when corresponding in a business context and you don't know the recipients name.
- Miguelito
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I was curious and decided to check the thousands of emails in my "sent" box of my work email. 144 have "whom" in them (and the actual number is much lower, as this includes replied emails with the original text in the bottom), with zero having "To whom it may concern." I then checked my inbox and deleted mail, and again not one has "To whom it may concern." Some good examples of "whom" that were in my professional emails include:
The person with whom I was speaking...
....., many of whom lack confidence ....
Can you tell me to whom it was delegated?
One thing that I am sure that D will ask is to confirm with whom it has been coordinated...
I just thought that it was interesting that I would initially defend the use of "whom," but in literally over 10,000 emails I found it in a very small handful of correspondence, and it was mostly used when preceded by a quantifier (as I mentioned in my last post).
The person with whom I was speaking...
....., many of whom lack confidence ....
Can you tell me to whom it was delegated?
One thing that I am sure that D will ask is to confirm with whom it has been coordinated...
I just thought that it was interesting that I would initially defend the use of "whom," but in literally over 10,000 emails I found it in a very small handful of correspondence, and it was mostly used when preceded by a quantifier (as I mentioned in my last post).
Well, in an email would be really weird to use that addressing phrase, even for Brits..
- Miguelito
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Ha, well that includes attachments
I do a lot of formal correspondence in email (any email I send for work is "professional" of course), and as GM pointed out I use "Dear Sir or Madam" frequently.
I do a lot of formal correspondence in email (any email I send for work is "professional" of course), and as GM pointed out I use "Dear Sir or Madam" frequently.
Contextualising language usually helps to decide on appropriacy:
If you worked for a company and sent a group email to everyone in your department informing them of a training course starting in the near future, which was relevant only to certain addressees, how would you start that email?
If you worked for a company and sent a group email to everyone in your department informing them of a training course starting in the near future, which was relevant only to certain addressees, how would you start that email?
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