Student suspended for honesty
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Student suspended for honesty
From New Zealand, I am not a teacher but thought will share:
As many of you know I recently got suspended from school. Here is what for:
We were given the task to write a persuasive speech about something that your had a strong opinion about. I originally had planned to do a speech about animal cruelty but the night before I decided to change it to a topic I truly felt passionate about. The school system and teachers. I do understand that this is not everyone's cup of tea but it is mine, and that's why I did it, for me. After I presented my speech my teacher left the class looking rather sad. The next day I came home from school to my father telling me that I was suspended for my speech (he didn't even know anything about it). My dean had told him because I was too controversial they did not want me back at school for at least until he had a meeting with the principle.
After hearing this news, rather than regretting what I had done, I was more proud. Proud that someone had heard my voice. But also I am angry. I thought New Zealand was a country with freedom of speech?? What grounds do the school stand on for suspending me.
If you don't think you will like what I'm about to say, simply don't read it. But this is just my opinion and what I believe. I am proud of this.
Here is my speech..
I’m a decently smart kid, with some decently good grades. But sometimes I believe that, with the essays, worksheets and endless amount of study assigned to me each day, that teachers secretly hate me, rather than actually wanting to help me do better. They most likely, if anything really, just do it for the pay check. I’m not saying all teachers do, but the majority of them appear to be that way. I always think about how I do believe school is important however I don’t believe most of the stuff taught there, is. Do I honestly need to know what a= 1+rn to the 2nd power is, go over the treaty Waitangi every year since I was literally 5 or memorize the periodic table in order to get somewhere in life? Do I honestly need to know the structure of a seed and how it works and whatnot? No, I don’t think so. I believe school should, instead, teach us more valuable information that we’ll actually need for our futures.
In High School, we should be learning about the real world, how to pay my taxes, apply for jobs, mortgage my house, buy a car, things that we will actually use in the future. So far, I’ve only learned that whatever I manage to get done in a short amount of time isn’t enough. What’s that? You did your homework, but didn’t do one question because you found it difficult and you were struggling? Well, there’s a unsatisfactory for homework on your mid term report! Now, that’s just not ok.
What my point is, we all struggle, and work, and stress our selves over things that aren’t important in the long run. Two years after High School, and the majority of the students who’ve graduated have already forgotten anything they’ve learned in the last four years of their school career. Stressing myself over end of year exams, because if I fail, I have my parents on my back, asking me why I didn't try hard enough, my teacher telling me I could have focused harder in class and my peers simply telling me that I’m stupid? Ridiculous.
I honestly used to love going to school. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and it made me happy to go to school, to meet friends, to learn things that I never knew. But the minute High School starts, it’s either you fly, or you fall. Now I strongly dislike it, and want nothing to do with it.
Some teachers are nice, there are a good few who are genuinely nice and want to help us but it seems that the teachers that are not willing to encourage and help me are all teachers of the subjects I’m not good at and it also happens to be that I don’t enjoy them. It’s unbelievable how some teachers play favorites. They believe you can do better than your best? If they wanted me to do better, wouldn’t they actually help me to understand? they wouldn’t shove more work down my throat and expect me not to have any trouble with it. I’m not saying to treat me special because I struggle in the subject but because I’m a student who would like to learn things by a teacher, and not a book. Actually do the teaching that you were taught and you are paid to do. Don’t just give me worksheets to do and expect me to take a test on the topic 2 days later.
you know….the school system is really screwed up …. We have all these teachers that dont enjoy their jobs and are all angry about the cut backs in their paychecks. Making us feel like complete idiots and making us feel useless. Like it’s our fault that we don’t understand the work! Maybe some of us have just don’t understand it! Or maybe the teacher didn’t teach it very well, but we’re the ones dealing with the consequences of failure.
It’s teachers like this that make us students want to skip class and not go to school because we think we arent good enough for the certain subject. Like we are stupid and will never understand it…. Teachers are PAID to TEACH us.. not paid to hand out a piece of paper with words on it and sit around and do nothing!!!!!!! I’m not saying all teachers are bad, and I understand that us as students need to make an effort. But our teachers chose this career and need to try to cater for each individuals education.
We spend 7 hours, 5 days a week, plus extra hours on top of that going over the days work, revision, studying, completing unfinished work and also homework give, working to please every single teacher, the least the could do is have some understanding and simply teach.
There you go.
I want my voice to be heard. And I want this to get back to napier girls. So give it a share. Thank you x
As many of you know I recently got suspended from school. Here is what for:
We were given the task to write a persuasive speech about something that your had a strong opinion about. I originally had planned to do a speech about animal cruelty but the night before I decided to change it to a topic I truly felt passionate about. The school system and teachers. I do understand that this is not everyone's cup of tea but it is mine, and that's why I did it, for me. After I presented my speech my teacher left the class looking rather sad. The next day I came home from school to my father telling me that I was suspended for my speech (he didn't even know anything about it). My dean had told him because I was too controversial they did not want me back at school for at least until he had a meeting with the principle.
After hearing this news, rather than regretting what I had done, I was more proud. Proud that someone had heard my voice. But also I am angry. I thought New Zealand was a country with freedom of speech?? What grounds do the school stand on for suspending me.
If you don't think you will like what I'm about to say, simply don't read it. But this is just my opinion and what I believe. I am proud of this.
Here is my speech..
I’m a decently smart kid, with some decently good grades. But sometimes I believe that, with the essays, worksheets and endless amount of study assigned to me each day, that teachers secretly hate me, rather than actually wanting to help me do better. They most likely, if anything really, just do it for the pay check. I’m not saying all teachers do, but the majority of them appear to be that way. I always think about how I do believe school is important however I don’t believe most of the stuff taught there, is. Do I honestly need to know what a= 1+rn to the 2nd power is, go over the treaty Waitangi every year since I was literally 5 or memorize the periodic table in order to get somewhere in life? Do I honestly need to know the structure of a seed and how it works and whatnot? No, I don’t think so. I believe school should, instead, teach us more valuable information that we’ll actually need for our futures.
In High School, we should be learning about the real world, how to pay my taxes, apply for jobs, mortgage my house, buy a car, things that we will actually use in the future. So far, I’ve only learned that whatever I manage to get done in a short amount of time isn’t enough. What’s that? You did your homework, but didn’t do one question because you found it difficult and you were struggling? Well, there’s a unsatisfactory for homework on your mid term report! Now, that’s just not ok.
What my point is, we all struggle, and work, and stress our selves over things that aren’t important in the long run. Two years after High School, and the majority of the students who’ve graduated have already forgotten anything they’ve learned in the last four years of their school career. Stressing myself over end of year exams, because if I fail, I have my parents on my back, asking me why I didn't try hard enough, my teacher telling me I could have focused harder in class and my peers simply telling me that I’m stupid? Ridiculous.
I honestly used to love going to school. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and it made me happy to go to school, to meet friends, to learn things that I never knew. But the minute High School starts, it’s either you fly, or you fall. Now I strongly dislike it, and want nothing to do with it.
Some teachers are nice, there are a good few who are genuinely nice and want to help us but it seems that the teachers that are not willing to encourage and help me are all teachers of the subjects I’m not good at and it also happens to be that I don’t enjoy them. It’s unbelievable how some teachers play favorites. They believe you can do better than your best? If they wanted me to do better, wouldn’t they actually help me to understand? they wouldn’t shove more work down my throat and expect me not to have any trouble with it. I’m not saying to treat me special because I struggle in the subject but because I’m a student who would like to learn things by a teacher, and not a book. Actually do the teaching that you were taught and you are paid to do. Don’t just give me worksheets to do and expect me to take a test on the topic 2 days later.
you know….the school system is really screwed up …. We have all these teachers that dont enjoy their jobs and are all angry about the cut backs in their paychecks. Making us feel like complete idiots and making us feel useless. Like it’s our fault that we don’t understand the work! Maybe some of us have just don’t understand it! Or maybe the teacher didn’t teach it very well, but we’re the ones dealing with the consequences of failure.
It’s teachers like this that make us students want to skip class and not go to school because we think we arent good enough for the certain subject. Like we are stupid and will never understand it…. Teachers are PAID to TEACH us.. not paid to hand out a piece of paper with words on it and sit around and do nothing!!!!!!! I’m not saying all teachers are bad, and I understand that us as students need to make an effort. But our teachers chose this career and need to try to cater for each individuals education.
We spend 7 hours, 5 days a week, plus extra hours on top of that going over the days work, revision, studying, completing unfinished work and also homework give, working to please every single teacher, the least the could do is have some understanding and simply teach.
There you go.
I want my voice to be heard. And I want this to get back to napier girls. So give it a share. Thank you x
Maybe the speech was so badly written that the teacher died of shame and the student was suspended while manslaughter charges are being investigated? What an absolute bag of shite.
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The girl is only 15.
She's taken a lot of flak re. her ignorance as to the huge amount of unseen hours that teachers put in.
But she is certainly brave.
She's taken a lot of flak re. her ignorance as to the huge amount of unseen hours that teachers put in.
But she is certainly brave.
.
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As a teacher I would certainly not have reported her, and would have strongly objected to her suspension. She was set a task and she did it. I'd commend her for her attempts at critical thinking, but point out that the quality of her argument is rather weak, and I would have assessed her on that and explained on her paper what she needs to do to offer better-supported arguments.rebo wrote:Interesting to know what the teachers on the forum think of this speech.
I think she was trying to say the system is broken but comes across saying most teachers are useless and not doing their job.
I probably would have been insulted if I was that teacher.
I would then take her - and possibly some like-minded but less brave classmates aside and discuss the issues. I'd want to talk through where her points are in my opinion unfair - with reasons, and where they are maybe valid. I'd get her to clearly identify where criticisms of me might be valid and what I should do, where criticisms should be leveled at herself and what she should do, and where there are valid criticisms of the educational system and society and what her proposed solutions of those are.
I came, I argued, I'm out
There is one very valid point made by the student and she makes it several times. She wants teachers who actually teach, rather than teachers who hand out endless worksheets and assignment tasks, expecting students to meet standards via self-discovery and group interaction.
Like the concept of civil society, modern educational theory evolved in the 1970s as part of the New Left philosophy that was profoundly influential on student graduates of that era, including myself. The premises behind it are simple-we are all gifted with totally equal potential intelligence and any form of teacher instruction is brainwashing and totally detrimental to real learning.
By the 1980s, University Education academia was dominated by armchair leftists, who saw their role as purveyors of this new Gospel, though very few of them had actually taught in schools. We teachers would be subjected to in-servicing by these clowns and would have quite a laugh at their total lack of understanding of how real learning took place in a classroom environment. Unfortunately, like the civil society prophets, they won.
In Australia, this "new"philosophy is known as The Pedagogies and is taught to teacher trainees as irrefutable fact that cannot be challenged. Has anyone noticed the obvious contradiction? The handbook used when I last taught in Australia was called "Teaching the Pedagogies", which is of course a tautology.
The results have been stunning, but not in the way intended-serious decline in educational standards in countries where these philosophies have long been in place and an endless production line of teacher graduates who have no communicative skills at all, but are merely resource providers, markers and occasional consultants.
Unfortunately, this trend is now spreading across Asia, fueled by the ubiquitous New Left cliche that has become so pervasive in all aspects of our daily existence-EMPOWERMENT. In my experience in teaching for 25 years in Australia, this means giving students the opportunity to sit in groups discussing who fucked or beat up who at last Saturday's party, while "empowering" the brightest student in the cohort (another absurd cliche) to do any serious work.
I had the misfortune of making an observation report on a young Indian Maths teacher who had recently joined our school last year. He handed out the task sheet, gave no form of introduction or explanation and spent the rest of the lesson standing around with a bemused grin on his face. The students, as expected, directed all inquiries to the smartest student in the class(sorry, cohort). When I pointed out his failings, his response was that he was simply doing what he had been taught at Teacher's College. Within a few weeks, students and parents complained en masse about him and he was replaced.
I hope these comments are not seen as the bleatings of an ageing conservative. I was a very active member of the New Left in the 70s, which helps me to understand the true source of today's political correctness. It is not empowerment; it is manipulation.
To me, it is heartening that my students still want to be taught and that their views are shared by a student in New Zealand. There is a place in education for self-discovery and group work, but there is also a very important role for actual teaching-to impart knowledge and develop skills in students, while emphasising the need for them to think for themselves. The alternative?
"Oh Brave New World!"
'
Like the concept of civil society, modern educational theory evolved in the 1970s as part of the New Left philosophy that was profoundly influential on student graduates of that era, including myself. The premises behind it are simple-we are all gifted with totally equal potential intelligence and any form of teacher instruction is brainwashing and totally detrimental to real learning.
By the 1980s, University Education academia was dominated by armchair leftists, who saw their role as purveyors of this new Gospel, though very few of them had actually taught in schools. We teachers would be subjected to in-servicing by these clowns and would have quite a laugh at their total lack of understanding of how real learning took place in a classroom environment. Unfortunately, like the civil society prophets, they won.
In Australia, this "new"philosophy is known as The Pedagogies and is taught to teacher trainees as irrefutable fact that cannot be challenged. Has anyone noticed the obvious contradiction? The handbook used when I last taught in Australia was called "Teaching the Pedagogies", which is of course a tautology.
The results have been stunning, but not in the way intended-serious decline in educational standards in countries where these philosophies have long been in place and an endless production line of teacher graduates who have no communicative skills at all, but are merely resource providers, markers and occasional consultants.
Unfortunately, this trend is now spreading across Asia, fueled by the ubiquitous New Left cliche that has become so pervasive in all aspects of our daily existence-EMPOWERMENT. In my experience in teaching for 25 years in Australia, this means giving students the opportunity to sit in groups discussing who fucked or beat up who at last Saturday's party, while "empowering" the brightest student in the cohort (another absurd cliche) to do any serious work.
I had the misfortune of making an observation report on a young Indian Maths teacher who had recently joined our school last year. He handed out the task sheet, gave no form of introduction or explanation and spent the rest of the lesson standing around with a bemused grin on his face. The students, as expected, directed all inquiries to the smartest student in the class(sorry, cohort). When I pointed out his failings, his response was that he was simply doing what he had been taught at Teacher's College. Within a few weeks, students and parents complained en masse about him and he was replaced.
I hope these comments are not seen as the bleatings of an ageing conservative. I was a very active member of the New Left in the 70s, which helps me to understand the true source of today's political correctness. It is not empowerment; it is manipulation.
To me, it is heartening that my students still want to be taught and that their views are shared by a student in New Zealand. There is a place in education for self-discovery and group work, but there is also a very important role for actual teaching-to impart knowledge and develop skills in students, while emphasising the need for them to think for themselves. The alternative?
"Oh Brave New World!"
'
The student wasn't suspended.
She placed the speech online and also emailed it to a number of teachers.
http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article ... d=11473902
Agreed in part with both Andy and Gilmore.
I'm with Gilmore in that direct instruction has a large part to play - it's one of my strongest personal learning preferences, and I'd also like to think I'd have had the time and space to have a sit-down chat with that student had I been addressed.
I've found that my time available for individual personalisation of presentation/delivery of lessons is directly linked to both scheduled workload and the timetable for forward progression through whatever calendar is required by the school - it can all be a compromise at times.
It sounds like the student hit a wall at some point, fell a little behind and so had a moment of Rage Against The Machine.
Good on her.
Glad to hear it was addressed / is being addressed and that she didn't just stay quiet and struggle.
She placed the speech online and also emailed it to a number of teachers.
understandable given that...principal Mary Nixon ... confirmed she had met Miss Pritchard and her family yesterday, at the earliest convenience for all involved.
Further comment:"Colleagues and students in the wider school were shocked and upset."
http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article ... d=11473902
Agreed in part with both Andy and Gilmore.
I'm with Gilmore in that direct instruction has a large part to play - it's one of my strongest personal learning preferences, and I'd also like to think I'd have had the time and space to have a sit-down chat with that student had I been addressed.
I've found that my time available for individual personalisation of presentation/delivery of lessons is directly linked to both scheduled workload and the timetable for forward progression through whatever calendar is required by the school - it can all be a compromise at times.
It sounds like the student hit a wall at some point, fell a little behind and so had a moment of Rage Against The Machine.
Good on her.
Glad to hear it was addressed / is being addressed and that she didn't just stay quiet and struggle.
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I've had to read this post a couple of times because I couldn't believe what I was reading and, I'm sorry Gilmore, but it does indeed come across as the bleatings of an ageing conservative. There's nothing at all communicative/progressive about handing out task sheets and then sitting back to watch the ensuing chaos- that's just a poor teacher you've employed.Gilmore wrote:There is one very valid point made by the student and she makes it several times. She wants teachers who actually teach, rather than teachers who hand out endless worksheets and assignment tasks, expecting students to meet standards via self-discovery and group interaction.
Like the concept of civil society, modern educational theory evolved in the 1970s as part of the New Left philosophy that was profoundly influential on student graduates of that era, including myself. The premises behind it are simple-we are all gifted with totally equal potential intelligence and any form of teacher instruction is brainwashing and totally detrimental to real learning.
By the 1980s, University Education academia was dominated by armchair leftists, who saw their role as purveyors of this new Gospel, though very few of them had actually taught in schools. We teachers would be subjected to in-servicing by these clowns and would have quite a laugh at their total lack of understanding of how real learning took place in a classroom environment. Unfortunately, like the civil society prophets, they won.
In Australia, this "new"philosophy is known as The Pedagogies and is taught to teacher trainees as irrefutable fact that cannot be challenged. Has anyone noticed the obvious contradiction? The handbook used when I last taught in Australia was called "Teaching the Pedagogies", which is of course a tautology.
The results have been stunning, but not in the way intended-serious decline in educational standards in countries where these philosophies have long been in place and an endless production line of teacher graduates who have no communicative skills at all, but are merely resource providers, markers and occasional consultants.
Unfortunately, this trend is now spreading across Asia, fueled by the ubiquitous New Left cliche that has become so pervasive in all aspects of our daily existence-EMPOWERMENT. In my experience in teaching for 25 years in Australia, this means giving students the opportunity to sit in groups discussing who fucked or beat up who at last Saturday's party, while "empowering" the brightest student in the cohort (another absurd cliche) to do any serious work.
I had the misfortune of making an observation report on a young Indian Maths teacher who had recently joined our school last year. He handed out the task sheet, gave no form of introduction or explanation and spent the rest of the lesson standing around with a bemused grin on his face. The students, as expected, directed all inquiries to the smartest student in the class(sorry, cohort). When I pointed out his failings, his response was that he was simply doing what he had been taught at Teacher's College. Within a few weeks, students and parents complained en masse about him and he was replaced.
I hope these comments are not seen as the bleatings of an ageing conservative. I was a very active member of the New Left in the 70s, which helps me to understand the true source of today's political correctness. It is not empowerment; it is manipulation.
To me, it is heartening that my students still want to be taught and that their views are shared by a student in New Zealand. There is a place in education for self-discovery and group work, but there is also a very important role for actual teaching-to impart knowledge and develop skills in students, while emphasising the need for them to think for themselves. The alternative?
"Oh Brave New World!"
'
Two words: guided discovery. Emphasis on the guided.
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I think you've missed the point, eric. The man in question was observed, found to be a poor teacher and replaced. Gilmore was making the point that the guy didn't actually teach anything; he (Gilmore) was exactly making the point that discovery should be guided. (First teach the concepts, check they are understood and then facilitate exploration & cementing of application.)
'History is a set of lies agreed upon.'
Attributed to Napoleon
Attributed to Napoleon
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I'm not sure I have, springrain.
Like the concept of civil society, modern educational theory evolved in the 1970s as part of the New Left philosophy that was profoundly influential on student graduates of that era, including myself. The premises behind it are simple-we are all gifted with totally equal potential intelligence and any form of teacher instruction is brainwashing and totally detrimental to real learning.
By the 1980s, University Education academia was dominated by armchair leftists, who saw their role as purveyors of this new Gospel, though very few of them had actually taught in schools. We teachers would be subjected to in-servicing by these clowns and would have quite a laugh at their total lack of understanding of how real learning took place in a classroom environment. Unfortunately, like the civil society prophets, they won.
In Australia, this "new"philosophy is known as The Pedagogies and is taught to teacher trainees as irrefutable fact that cannot be challenged. Has anyone noticed the obvious contradiction? The handbook used when I last taught in Australia was called "Teaching the Pedagogies", which is of course a tautology.
The results have been stunning, but not in the way intended-serious decline in educational standards in countries where these philosophies have long been in place and an endless production line of teacher graduates who have no communicative skills at all, but are merely resource providers, markers and occasional consultants.
Unfortunately, this trend is now spreading across Asia, fueled by the ubiquitous New Left cliche that has become so pervasive in all aspects of our daily existence-EMPOWERMENT. In my experience in teaching for 25 years in Australia, this means giving students the opportunity to sit in groups discussing who fucked or beat up who at last Saturday's party, while "empowering" the brightest student in the cohort (another absurd cliche) to do any serious work.
Gilmore makes himself pretty clear in that he's not exactly enamoured with the approach and left wing thinking.
Like the concept of civil society, modern educational theory evolved in the 1970s as part of the New Left philosophy that was profoundly influential on student graduates of that era, including myself. The premises behind it are simple-we are all gifted with totally equal potential intelligence and any form of teacher instruction is brainwashing and totally detrimental to real learning.
By the 1980s, University Education academia was dominated by armchair leftists, who saw their role as purveyors of this new Gospel, though very few of them had actually taught in schools. We teachers would be subjected to in-servicing by these clowns and would have quite a laugh at their total lack of understanding of how real learning took place in a classroom environment. Unfortunately, like the civil society prophets, they won.
In Australia, this "new"philosophy is known as The Pedagogies and is taught to teacher trainees as irrefutable fact that cannot be challenged. Has anyone noticed the obvious contradiction? The handbook used when I last taught in Australia was called "Teaching the Pedagogies", which is of course a tautology.
The results have been stunning, but not in the way intended-serious decline in educational standards in countries where these philosophies have long been in place and an endless production line of teacher graduates who have no communicative skills at all, but are merely resource providers, markers and occasional consultants.
Unfortunately, this trend is now spreading across Asia, fueled by the ubiquitous New Left cliche that has become so pervasive in all aspects of our daily existence-EMPOWERMENT. In my experience in teaching for 25 years in Australia, this means giving students the opportunity to sit in groups discussing who fucked or beat up who at last Saturday's party, while "empowering" the brightest student in the cohort (another absurd cliche) to do any serious work.
Gilmore makes himself pretty clear in that he's not exactly enamoured with the approach and left wing thinking.
You're both on the same page as far as I can see.erictheking wrote:I've had to read this post a couple of times because I couldn't believe what I was reading and, I'm sorry Gilmore, but it does indeed come across as the bleatings of an ageing conservative. There's nothing at all communicative/progressive about handing out task sheets and then sitting back to watch the ensuing chaos- that's just a poor teacher you've employed.Gilmore wrote:There is one very valid point made by the student and she makes it several times. She wants teachers who actually teach, rather than teachers who hand out endless worksheets and assignment tasks, expecting students to meet standards via self-discovery and group interaction.
...
I had the misfortune of making an observation report on a young Indian Maths teacher who had recently joined our school last year. He handed out the task sheet, gave no form of introduction or explanation and spent the rest of the lesson standing around with a bemused grin on his face. The students, as expected, directed all inquiries to the smartest student in the class(sorry, cohort). When I pointed out his failings, his response was that he was simply doing what he had been taught at Teacher's College.
...
There is a place in education for self-discovery and group work, but there is also a very important role for actual teaching-to impart knowledge and develop skills in students, while emphasising the need for them to think for themselves.
Two words: guided discovery. Emphasis on the guided.
Anyone who knows me would find the idea that I'm conservative in my thinking quite hilarious. Eric couldn't believe what he was reading because it challenges what is now accepted dogma. That makes him the conservative; not me.
I felt sorry for the teacher who was fired, as he seemed a sincere and conscientious person. Unfortunately, he had been indoctrinated into thinking that the path he was taking as a teacher was the only possible option.
It is interesting that in conversations with other experienced teachers, such as springrain, we tend to agree on one point-that teachers are born, not made. Teaching involves a wide range of skills that some graduates lack the capacity to acquire, even after decades in the classroom. The current dogma of supposed egalitarianism ensures that the occupation is now open to anyone who can hand out worksheets and use a marking pen.
Disappointing that empowerment didn't get mentioned, but it was pleasing to see another old favourite-progressive- used. It was originally used in this context by 20th. Century Marxist regimes to justify their authoritarian doctrines i.e. anyone who opposed their progressive rule was a reactionary and an enemy of the people.
There is a big difference between free thinking and doctrinaire thinking. Take the time to consider whether your own values evolved out of personal experience and critical examination or the imposition of quasi-religious dogma that allows no room for dissent.
I felt sorry for the teacher who was fired, as he seemed a sincere and conscientious person. Unfortunately, he had been indoctrinated into thinking that the path he was taking as a teacher was the only possible option.
It is interesting that in conversations with other experienced teachers, such as springrain, we tend to agree on one point-that teachers are born, not made. Teaching involves a wide range of skills that some graduates lack the capacity to acquire, even after decades in the classroom. The current dogma of supposed egalitarianism ensures that the occupation is now open to anyone who can hand out worksheets and use a marking pen.
Disappointing that empowerment didn't get mentioned, but it was pleasing to see another old favourite-progressive- used. It was originally used in this context by 20th. Century Marxist regimes to justify their authoritarian doctrines i.e. anyone who opposed their progressive rule was a reactionary and an enemy of the people.
There is a big difference between free thinking and doctrinaire thinking. Take the time to consider whether your own values evolved out of personal experience and critical examination or the imposition of quasi-religious dogma that allows no room for dissent.
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So, I did read your original post correctly.Gilmore wrote:Anyone who knows me would find the idea that I'm conservative in my thinking quite hilarious. Eric couldn't believe what he was reading because it challenges what is now accepted dogma. That makes him the conservative; not me.
I felt sorry for the teacher who was fired, as he seemed a sincere and conscientious person. Unfortunately, he had been indoctrinated into thinking that the path he was taking as a teacher was the only possible option.
It is interesting that in conversations with other experienced teachers, such as springrain, we tend to agree on one point-that teachers are born, not made. Teaching involves a wide range of skills that some graduates lack the capacity to acquire, even after decades in the classroom. The current dogma of supposed egalitarianism ensures that the occupation is now open to anyone who can hand out worksheets and use a marking pen.
Disappointing that empowerment didn't get mentioned, but it was pleasing to see another old favourite-progressive- used. It was originally used in this context by 20th. Century Marxist regimes to justify their authoritarian doctrines i.e. anyone who opposed their progressive rule was a reactionary and an enemy of the people.
There is a big difference between free thinking and doctrinaire thinking. Take the time to consider whether your own values evolved out of personal experience and critical examination or the imposition of quasi-religious dogma that allows no room for dissent.
"It is interesting that in conversations with other experienced teachers, such as springrain, we tend to agree on one point-that teachers are born, not made."
Imagine waking up one morning with the ability to teach and forego any kind of training (better to avoid any kind of indoctrination, of course)! Are lawyers, doctors and carpenters born into their jobs in the world you live in or do they have to submit to indoctrination too?
"I felt sorry for the teacher who was fired, as he seemed a sincere and conscientious person. Unfortunately, he had been indoctrinated into thinking that the path he was taking as a teacher was the only possible option."
The path he was taking? Showing up for work and giving out a set of handouts to the students! That's not any kind of path- that's you employing someone who can't do the job.
"The current dogma of supposed egalitarianism ensures that the occupation is now open to anyone who can hand out worksheets and use a marking pen."
Utter. Fucking. Nonsense.
- springrain
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Hold it, eric, mate. I don't want to get more involved in your seeming disagreement with Gilmore, but I would like to provide some context.I do believe that teachers are born not made, but that is not to say that I reject training. Of course, training is beneficial, but it is not the be all and end all - training supplements what a teacher instinctively feels for the job. I have seen many 'trained' teachers (as I'm sure you have) who have been bloody awful, such as the maths teacher Gilmore quoted above.
I have a lot of time for your views as I know you have been involved in Celta (or is it Delta, I can't remember) training. If you consider a PPP lesson (I'm aware that that is not the only way) what the maths teacher quoted above was doing was trying to skip the Presentation & Practice steps, without really knowing how to deal with the Production that they were supposed to be engaged in. Even considering the work of Piaget, Krashen, Ellis and so on, you need to be aware of trying to cope with the various stages of a student's learning curve. That, I agree, partially comes from awareness and training. But if those were the only criteria, every teacher would be the same, which clearly isn't the case.
I don't want to try to paraphrase Gilmore, but I believe he was saying that post-modernist methods in mainstream teaching (which, don't forget, is not quite the same as EFL teaching) have been geared more towards seeming to have 'yaroo!' fun in a classroom environment, rather than actual learning taking place.
My own view is that if the teacher guides active learning in a constructive, varied, enjoyable,(not necessarily meaning wearing silly hats & painted smiles) and purposeful way, meaningful learning takes place. Training and awareness of methodology helps a lot, but that spark of individuality comes naturally - it is not readily learnt.
Good discussion, mate. I still don't really think you're grasping what Gilmore is saying, though. You are reading out of context and assuming that he is saying that training doesn't matter. He isn't - he is saying (if I read correctly) that post-modernist methods are at odds with purposeful learning.
Btw, Gilmore didn't hire him, the school's owner did; it wasn't Gilmore's fault; it was on his recommendation that the incompetent maths teacher was fired.
I have a lot of time for your views as I know you have been involved in Celta (or is it Delta, I can't remember) training. If you consider a PPP lesson (I'm aware that that is not the only way) what the maths teacher quoted above was doing was trying to skip the Presentation & Practice steps, without really knowing how to deal with the Production that they were supposed to be engaged in. Even considering the work of Piaget, Krashen, Ellis and so on, you need to be aware of trying to cope with the various stages of a student's learning curve. That, I agree, partially comes from awareness and training. But if those were the only criteria, every teacher would be the same, which clearly isn't the case.
I don't want to try to paraphrase Gilmore, but I believe he was saying that post-modernist methods in mainstream teaching (which, don't forget, is not quite the same as EFL teaching) have been geared more towards seeming to have 'yaroo!' fun in a classroom environment, rather than actual learning taking place.
My own view is that if the teacher guides active learning in a constructive, varied, enjoyable,(not necessarily meaning wearing silly hats & painted smiles) and purposeful way, meaningful learning takes place. Training and awareness of methodology helps a lot, but that spark of individuality comes naturally - it is not readily learnt.
Good discussion, mate. I still don't really think you're grasping what Gilmore is saying, though. You are reading out of context and assuming that he is saying that training doesn't matter. He isn't - he is saying (if I read correctly) that post-modernist methods are at odds with purposeful learning.
Btw, Gilmore didn't hire him, the school's owner did; it wasn't Gilmore's fault; it was on his recommendation that the incompetent maths teacher was fired.
'History is a set of lies agreed upon.'
Attributed to Napoleon
Attributed to Napoleon
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