Classroom management - a good read
- vladimir
- Feminist Watch List
- Reactions: 4
- Posts: 34235
- Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:43 am
- Location: mod edit
Thanks, I would be interested to know where this guy taught, and what kind of schools he taught at, ie genuine international school in, say Hong Kong, vs diploma mill in turd-world country, or something inbetween.
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
'This guy' being the blog writer for Teachers2Tutor Ltd, or the referred advisor, Bill Rogers, whose methods are covered in the article?
Australian state schools for Bill, I think.
Start here - 9 videos with a very good approach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqIXB1R ... _LaJ6PufZm
Australian state schools for Bill, I think.
Start here - 9 videos with a very good approach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqIXB1R ... _LaJ6PufZm
- vladimir
- Feminist Watch List
- Reactions: 4
- Posts: 34235
- Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:43 am
- Location: mod edit
Thanks.
It's always great when the partners: the student, classmates, the teacher, admin, the parents and other school staff work together.
From my experience in Cambodia, some school owners interfere with the homogeneity of that body, with very negative consequences.
It's always great when the partners: the student, classmates, the teacher, admin, the parents and other school staff work together.
From my experience in Cambodia, some school owners interfere with the homogeneity of that body, with very negative consequences.
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
Interesting read, but he misses one point in my opinion. Once you (teacher) accept that (temporary) conflicts with students are just a part of your job, and nothing personal, stress levels will be reduced significantly.
Of course dealing with these conflicts is another matter, unfortunately loads of teachers I've worked with failed in this department, thus failing as a teacher and losing it all in just a few weeks...
And I disagree with the writer about offering choices to student: 'I see you're listening to your iPHONE now, you can either put it away or....'. The fact he didn't finish the sentence tells me something.
Sometimes there is no choice, they just have to do it your way. There's a certain baseline you set in the first lessons and maintain strictly afterwards. Below that line there's no choice - they just have to act according to what you want them to do. To make them do that all comes down to the teacher's behavior and the relation with the students, it's good the writer stresses that in his article.
Of course dealing with these conflicts is another matter, unfortunately loads of teachers I've worked with failed in this department, thus failing as a teacher and losing it all in just a few weeks...
And I disagree with the writer about offering choices to student: 'I see you're listening to your iPHONE now, you can either put it away or....'. The fact he didn't finish the sentence tells me something.
Sometimes there is no choice, they just have to do it your way. There's a certain baseline you set in the first lessons and maintain strictly afterwards. Below that line there's no choice - they just have to act according to what you want them to do. To make them do that all comes down to the teacher's behavior and the relation with the students, it's good the writer stresses that in his article.
- Falcon Randwick
- Damn, I just saw my Internet Bill !
- Reactions: 3
- Posts: 4381
- Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:55 pm
Phones should be barred during school time, problem solvered. I've seen that policy work well in a couple of schools...
Like Potato Stars on facebook. We're likable...
https://www.facebook.com/potstars1
...and make your ears hate you by listening to us here
https://soundcloud.com/falcon-randwick
https://www.facebook.com/potstars1
...and make your ears hate you by listening to us here
https://soundcloud.com/falcon-randwick
Clicked 'like' instead of quote, there. I see people commenting on having done that from time to time - could the buttons be moved apart?
Directed choices - "I see you're listening to your iPHONE now, you can either put it away or...." place the responsibility for the choice visibly and unavoidably onto the student, thus: 1) removing the teacher as a target for the confrontational behaviour and placing that target with a rulebook that governs everyone equally, and 2) reinforcing the students' own knowledge of the rules in that book.
"You, the student, are choosing to break the school rules. Continue to do that and we'll take the matter further down the road of stopping that, or you could just stop it now. It's your choice, and we all know the rules - they're the same for everyone... including me." is a far better choice of action with confrontational and deliberately disruptive students than standing before the student telling them that:
'they just have to do it your way',
or, 'there is no choice',
or, 'they just have to act according to what you want them to do' .
Any of the above 3 from Kachang will feed into their narrative of disrupting the lesson, challenging authority, and generally messing you around because they want to push your buttons and see what you do.
But you're right in that it comes down to the teacher's behaviour and relation to the students.
If there are confrontational and deliberately disruptive students in the class and they correctly surmise their teacher is an authoritarian blowhard with no patience or people skills, those students will very easily mess up each and every class that teacher tries to give.
Kachang hasn't had much experience with confrontational students, I think.Kachang wrote:Interesting read, but he misses one point in my opinion. Once you (teacher) accept that (temporary) conflicts with students are just a part of your job, and nothing personal, stress levels will be reduced significantly.
Of course dealing with these conflicts is another matter, unfortunately loads of teachers I've worked with failed in this department, thus failing as a teacher and losing it all in just a few weeks...
And I disagree with the writer about offering choices to student: 'I see you're listening to your iPHONE now, you can either put it away or....'. The fact he didn't finish the sentence tells me something.
Sometimes there is no choice, they just have to do it your way. There's a certain baseline you set in the first lessons and maintain strictly afterwards. Below that line there's no choice - they just have to act according to what you want them to do. To make them do that all comes down to the teacher's behavior and the relation with the students, it's good the writer stresses that in his article.
Directed choices - "I see you're listening to your iPHONE now, you can either put it away or...." place the responsibility for the choice visibly and unavoidably onto the student, thus: 1) removing the teacher as a target for the confrontational behaviour and placing that target with a rulebook that governs everyone equally, and 2) reinforcing the students' own knowledge of the rules in that book.
"You, the student, are choosing to break the school rules. Continue to do that and we'll take the matter further down the road of stopping that, or you could just stop it now. It's your choice, and we all know the rules - they're the same for everyone... including me." is a far better choice of action with confrontational and deliberately disruptive students than standing before the student telling them that:
'they just have to do it your way',
or, 'there is no choice',
or, 'they just have to act according to what you want them to do' .
Any of the above 3 from Kachang will feed into their narrative of disrupting the lesson, challenging authority, and generally messing you around because they want to push your buttons and see what you do.
But you're right in that it comes down to the teacher's behaviour and relation to the students.
If there are confrontational and deliberately disruptive students in the class and they correctly surmise their teacher is an authoritarian blowhard with no patience or people skills, those students will very easily mess up each and every class that teacher tries to give.
Phones are banned - a student brings one into class and halfway through starts messing with it... what do you do?Falcon Randwick wrote:Phones should be barred during school time, problem solvered. I've seen that policy work well in a couple of schools...
This is a student who has decided to challenge authority today.
Nose to nose confrontation with the student? Putting yourself into the position of acknowledging being the particular authority challenged and at the same time going head to head in a showdown re who controls the room will most likely lead to a meltdown of the student and a hugely disrupted class.
Or, do you make a quiet and unobtrusive takedown removing the teacher as the target of the challenge and not leading to an escalation and meltdown and with less chance of bad feelings moving forwards?
Directed choice. Put the phone away or go and see 'reception'... stress it's their choice.
Direct challenge. Confrontation in class, probable disruption of class, loss of class focus.. turns into teacher being target for all that's wrong with the rule book. Feeds into the disruptive and challenging students' problematic behaviour in those classes for that teacher.
Chuangt2u wrote:Clicked 'like' instead of quote, there. I see people commenting on having done that from time to time - could the buttons be moved apart?
Kachang hasn't had much experience with confrontational students, I think.Kachang wrote:Interesting read, but he misses one point in my opinion. Once you (teacher) accept that (temporary) conflicts with students are just a part of your job, and nothing personal, stress levels will be reduced significantly.
Of course dealing with these conflicts is another matter, unfortunately loads of teachers I've worked with failed in this department, thus failing as a teacher and losing it all in just a few weeks...
And I disagree with the writer about offering choices to student: 'I see you're listening to your iPHONE now, you can either put it away or....'. The fact he didn't finish the sentence tells me something.
Sometimes there is no choice, they just have to do it your way. There's a certain baseline you set in the first lessons and maintain strictly afterwards. Below that line there's no choice - they just have to act according to what you want them to do. To make them do that all comes down to the teacher's behavior and the relation with the students, it's good the writer stresses that in his article.
Directed choices - "I see you're listening to your iPHONE now, you can either put it away or...." place the responsibility for the choice visibly and unavoidably onto the student, thus: 1) removing the teacher as a target for the confrontational behaviour and placing that target with a rulebook that governs everyone equally, and 2) reinforcing the students' own knowledge of the rules in that book.
"You, the student, are choosing to break the school rules. Continue to do that and we'll take the matter further down the road of stopping that, or you could just stop it now. It's your choice, and we all know the rules - they're the same for everyone... including me." is a far better choice of action with confrontational and deliberately disruptive students than standing before the student telling them that:
'they just have to do it your way',
or, 'there is no choice',
or, 'they just have to act according to what you want them to do' .
Any of the above 3 from Kachang will feed into their narrative of disrupting the lesson, challenging authority, and generally messing you around because they want to push your buttons and see what you do.
But you're right in that it comes down to the teacher's behaviour and relation to the students.
If there are confrontational and deliberately disruptive students in the class and they correctly surmise their teacher is an authoritarian blowhard with no patience or people skills, those students will very easily mess up each and every class that teacher tries to give.
What makes you assume I don't know what I'm talking about?
I have loads of of teaching experience. Taught three subjects in a state highschool from the age of 21 until the age of 37. Taught all levels, including children with special needs and behavioral problems. So I know what I'm talking about.
All of the 'three' you mention that are 'from me', aren't mine I think. I wrote:
"Sometimes there is no choice, they just have to do it your way. There's a certain baseline you set in the first lessons and maintain strictly afterwards. Below that line there's no choice - they just have to act according to what you want them to do. To make them do that all comes down to the teacher's behavior and the relation with the students, it's good the writer stresses that in his article."
The last part being the most important, the first part just being the goal.
My statement is that a teacher who really knows what he / she is doing doesn't have to bother about certain student behavior, because he has taught them somehow he doesn't want to see that behavior. If that teacher has the luck of working in a good team (and I had that luck when teaching special needs children) things become a lot easier of course, but most teachers do not have that luck.
For some reason, lying in the behavior of a teacher and his relationship with the students, students won't do certain things in his class they will do in other classes. Has nothing to do with being an authoritarian, but indeed with the teacher's behavior and people management plus a conflict once in a while. The latter just being part of the job because being a teacher you will be tested, again and again, by your students.
Last edited by Kachang on Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
A good teacher will choose his battles and moments. During class small gestures, a wave of a hand, a tap on the shoulder, a look in the eye of the 'challenger', ..., nothing big, the rest is done afterwards one on one, including the 'restoring relationship' thing. The problem is, and I can tell from my own experience, it takes years of experience to be able to recognize these situations while being busy teaching and then doing the right thing. Sometimes the right thing is to do nothing during class, but just confront the students afterwards.Chuangt2u wrote:Phones are banned - a student brings one into class and halfway through starts messing with it... what do you do?Falcon Randwick wrote:Phones should be barred during school time, problem solvered. I've seen that policy work well in a couple of schools...
This is a student who has decided to challenge authority today.
Nose to nose confrontation with the student? Putting yourself into the position of acknowledging being the particular authority challenged and at the same time going head to head in a showdown re who controls the room will most likely lead to a meltdown of the student and a hugely disrupted class.
Or, do you make a quiet and unobtrusive takedown removing the teacher as the target of the challenge and not leading to an escalation and meltdown and with less chance of bad feelings moving forwards?
Directed choice. Put the phone away or go and see 'reception'... stress it's their choice.
Direct challenge. Confrontation in class, probable disruption of class, loss of class focus.. turns into teacher being target for all that's wrong with the rule book. Feeds into the disruptive and challenging students' problematic behaviour in those classes for that teacher.
I think it took me over 5 years before I found the right 'tone'/mode to smoothly handle stuff like this.
I personally never liked the 'see reception' or 'see director' option, but I also know some teachers prefer it.
- Falcon Randwick
- Damn, I just saw my Internet Bill !
- Reactions: 3
- Posts: 4381
- Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:55 pm
In all cases the student must leave the class and report immediately to the school's discipline master. Schools must have a stated, firmly and consistently applied policy regarding telephones inside class. At my last school, in Indonesia, students checked their phones in as they entered the school and got them back at the end of the day. The school periodically conducted spot checks of students possessions, even down to emptying out their pockets, students were prohibited from bringing large amounts of money into school as well. Any contraband had to be bought back by the students with a contribution to charity.Chuangt2u wrote:Phones are banned - a student brings one into class and halfway through starts messing with it... what do you do?Falcon Randwick wrote:Phones should be barred during school time, problem solvered. I've seen that policy work well in a couple of schools...
One of the schools I worked at in Myanmar had a particularly harsh policy; students, and their parents by a note home, were given one warning. Caught twice with any unsanctioned electronic device and the object was seized and locked away in a drawer by the director and returned at the end of term. Both policies were effective.
Like Potato Stars on facebook. We're likable...
https://www.facebook.com/potstars1
...and make your ears hate you by listening to us here
https://soundcloud.com/falcon-randwick
https://www.facebook.com/potstars1
...and make your ears hate you by listening to us here
https://soundcloud.com/falcon-randwick
- springrain
- I'm on 3000; na na, na na na
- Reactions: 48
- Posts: 3023
- Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:25 pm
^^
Absolutely. The same where I work - phones not allowed. Students caught trying to sneak a device into school will forfeit their device(s) for a month. There is a line which students can dance on, pirouette on, prance about on, dip their toes in & bounce up and down on a trampoline on.
But they can not cross that line.
Absolutely. The same where I work - phones not allowed. Students caught trying to sneak a device into school will forfeit their device(s) for a month. There is a line which students can dance on, pirouette on, prance about on, dip their toes in & bounce up and down on a trampoline on.
But they can not cross that line.
'History is a set of lies agreed upon.'
Attributed to Napoleon
Attributed to Napoleon
-
- Similar Topics
- Replies
- Views
- Last post
-
-
good read from Andrew Marshall
by Phuket2006 » Fri Jun 16, 2023 7:52 am » in Thailand, Vietnam, Myanmar and Lao forums - 1 Replies
- 1068 Views
-
Last post by Phnom Penh Trader
Fri Jun 16, 2023 6:18 pm
-
-
-
A good read about the lockdown in Vietnam from an English teacher blogger.
by horace » Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:47 pm » in Thailand, Vietnam, Myanmar and Lao forums - 2 Replies
- 2285 Views
-
Last post by oasisbarhatien
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:12 am
-
-
- 7 Replies
- 1595 Views
-
Last post by Playboy
Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:32 pm