Of course, she would be mad. That's very informal and rude, like saying ស៊ី, which should only be used with best friends. However, as a foreigner, you shouldn't try and use all those informal words, just stick with the formal ones. អូន/បង sounds pretty sweet.starkmonster wrote:The formality thing is something that confuses the hell out of me, because as foreigners we never seem to get granted full access to informal language.
For example my wife still pulls a face when I use អញ / ឯង with her and we've been married 10 years. Whilst she's allowed to use it five minutes after she's met someone.
Ten different words for one meaning?
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I think you're missing my point, the context is correct, this is me talking to my wife whilst she's having a shower and I'm taking a piss level of informal.davenpen wrote:Of course, she would be mad. That's very informal and rude, like saying ស៊ី, which should only be used with best friends.
My point is that we seem to get held to some kind of higher level of formality that we're never permitted to escape from. It's not a status thing either, I know Khmers from all walks of life and I've never met one who doesn't use ឯង / អញ around friends and family.
[quote="starkmonster"][quote="davenpen"]Of course, she would be mad. That's very informal and rude, like saying ស៊ី, which should only be used with best friends.[/quote]
I think you're missing my point, the context is correct, this is me talking to my wife whilst she's having a shower and I'm taking a piss level of informal.
My point is that we seem to get held to some kind of higher level of formality that we're never permitted to escape from. It's not a status thing either, I know Khmers from all walks of life and I've never met one who doesn't use ឯង / អញ around friends and family.[/quote]
Anh is a very subjugating pronoun that my mom would use when she had a fit with my dad and vice versa.
I suppose your wife may be of the type with a strong Confuscious background?
I think you're missing my point, the context is correct, this is me talking to my wife whilst she's having a shower and I'm taking a piss level of informal.
My point is that we seem to get held to some kind of higher level of formality that we're never permitted to escape from. It's not a status thing either, I know Khmers from all walks of life and I've never met one who doesn't use ឯង / អញ around friends and family.[/quote]
Anh is a very subjugating pronoun that my mom would use when she had a fit with my dad and vice versa.
I suppose your wife may be of the type with a strong Confuscious background?
Does she also use it to address you?starkmonster wrote:The formality thing is something that confuses the hell out of me, because as foreigners we never seem to get granted full access to informal language.
For example my wife still pulls a face when I use អញ / ឯង with her and we've been married 10 years. Whilst she's allowed to use it five minutes after she's met someone.
Maybe with other people, and depending on their social status, she uses Ohn/អញ/Eng/ឯង because they're used to it.
But between husband and wife, it could be interpreted as a lack of respect.
It's used a lot though between spouses who either hate each others' guts or have a habit of teasing each other.
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Thanks guys, I'm getting there slowly. She pretty much refuses to speak to me in Khmer, it only happens when we're in a group and some in the group don't speak English, then it's always bong. But when she's with her friends and joking around it's always អញ / ឯង between them. So am I correct in saying that between friends it can be used with no ill-intent, but between spouses it indicates trouble in paradise? Good to know.Joon wrote:starkmonster wrote:Does she also use it to address you?
So how good a friends do you have to be before you can start dropping អញ / ឯង, are we talking drinking buddies or do you have to have served jail time together?
Also when I'm using អញ to address myself but still addressing the other as bong boo or whatever, does that cause equal insult if used in an inappropriate setting?
Last question, I'm guessing none of this applies to words that incorperate អញ / ឯង, such as ខ្លួនឯង?
If I was going to improve Khmer I would make two adjustments, first put spaces between the bloody words and second just use you/me for everyone, because all this other stuff is a minefield.
At least it's been confirmed you haven't spent 10 years in the "friend zone."starkmonster wrote:
So am I correct in saying that between friends it can be used with no ill-intent, but between spouses it indicates trouble in paradise? Good to know.
I agree it's really complicated, but you can just use ខ្ញុំ with everyone. For instance,starkmonster wrote:
Thanks guys, I'm getting there slowly. She pretty much refuses to speak to me in Khmer, it only happens when we're in a group and some in the group don't speak English, then it's always bong. But when she's with her friends and joking around it's always អញ / ឯង between them. So am I correct in saying that between friends it can be used with no ill-intent, but between spouses it indicates trouble in paradise? Good to know.
So how good a friends do you have to be before you can start dropping អញ / ឯង, are we talking drinking buddies or do you have to have served jail time together?
Also when I'm using អញ to address myself but still addressing the other as bong boo or whatever, does that cause equal insult if used in an inappropriate setting?
Last question, I'm guessing none of this applies to words that incorperate អញ / ឯង, such as ខ្លួនឯង?
If I was going to improve Khmer I would make two adjustments, first put spaces between the bloody words and second just use you/me for everyone, because all this other stuff is a minefield.
ខ្ញុំ/បង(តា or យាយ) = you/s.o. older than you (if he/she is much older than you)
ខ្ញុំ/អូន = you/s.o. younger than you or your wife
ខ្ញុំ/យើង = you/s.o. who might be older or younger than you
Forget about all those អញ, ឯង, ពូ, មីង, គាត់, នាង, អ្នក, លោក, blah blah blah.
I think it really depends on you to add spaces between words or not. There's no rule that says you can't put any space in sentences, maybe they're just too lazy to put it, because to us, it's fine to read the whole paragraph without a single space. Although, I like putting spaces between sentences when I write.
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You mean 'we'. យើង = we.davenpen wrote: ខ្ញុំ/យើង = you/s.o. who might be older or younger than you
ពូ is always useful and possibly more correct than បង when talking to a waiter, moto/tuktuk dop, mechanic, etc.davenpen wrote:Forget about all those អញ, ឯង, ពូ, មីង, គាត់, នាង, អ្នក, លោក, blah blah blah.
គាត់ is also useful. He or she, when referring to a third party that is known to both parties. (He said . . . )
កេ (not on your list). Someone. (Someone that is possibly unknown).
Even the others on your list above have their uses, depending on the learners life style, or family situation, etc. Certainly not to be forgotten.
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The age related ones are easy as are the formal ones because there are black and white rules.davenpen wrote:I agree it's really complicated, but you can just use ខ្ញុំ with everyone. For instance,
ខ្ញុំ/បង(តា or យាយ) = you/s.o. older than you (if he/she is much older than you)
ខ្ញុំ/អូន = you/s.o. younger than you or your wife
ខ្ញុំ/យើង = you/s.o. who might be older or younger than you
Forget about all those អញ, ឯង, ពូ, មីង, គាត់, នាង, អ្នក, លោក, blah blah blah
But I've never had anyone who can give me as anything that even approaches rules for when to use អញ/ឯង, and seeing as in formal settings they account for about every tenth word they're obviously pretty important to understand, especially the subtleties.
Last edited by starkmonster on Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The spaces between words is a killer. I often have to put together posters/flyers/whatever that are in Khmer. I can barely read the language- so when I'm trying to justify a body of text, if the phrases need hyphenation or anything it suddenly becomes illegible, so I pull in help and it needs to be rewritten. It's totally ridiculous. It might have worked well for hand-written script in pre-printing days, but it's pretty much unworkable in this modern age.starkmonster wrote: If I was going to improve Khmer I would make two adjustments, first put spaces between the bloody words and second just use you/me for everyone, because all this other stuff is a minefield.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
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My theory is a foreigner using អញ/ឯង and other very informal colloquial language just sounds wrong to the Khmer ear.
It's a bit like the new arrival middle eastern blokes at the late night fast food joints back home who learned all their English from pissed up chavs. "Alrrrright my geezerrrrrr, youzzz wantzzz chili sauce on thatzzz fam". It's like they're raping your ear hole.
It's a bit like the new arrival middle eastern blokes at the late night fast food joints back home who learned all their English from pissed up chavs. "Alrrrright my geezerrrrrr, youzzz wantzzz chili sauce on thatzzz fam". It's like they're raping your ear hole.
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.
The only people that I've heard referring to themselves as អញ have been labourers or un(der)educated people.
As for ឯង , the only time I use that is when referring to myself, ខ្លួនឯង . As in 'I did it myself', 'I'm going by myself', etc.
I could be wrong though.
The only people that I've heard referring to themselves as អញ have been labourers or un(der)educated people.
As for ឯង , the only time I use that is when referring to myself, ខ្លួនឯង . As in 'I did it myself', 'I'm going by myself', etc.
I could be wrong though.