How Hard is Thai for a Semi-Fluent Khmer Speaker?
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How Hard is Thai for a Semi-Fluent Khmer Speaker?
I found a dog-haired Thai phrasebook at a local used bookstore and it immediately became clear as I perused it that Khmer and Thai were related. There were near cognates like par sa ភាសារ or gaw bob កាបូប, similar grammatical structures like dee តើ for starting off a formal question, and even pom was just ខ្ញុំ.
Has anyone here become varying levels of proficient in both? How long would it take me as an ok Khmer speaker to be ok in Thai?
Has anyone here become varying levels of proficient in both? How long would it take me as an ok Khmer speaker to be ok in Thai?
- Miguelito
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Have you ever been to Thailand?
Before you spend three years learning a new language, you should decide if you have any intention of visiting the country or living there. I can already picture your first visit, and then your thread titled "how do I know if the 'girl' I met online is actually a 'girl' before it's too late?"
Before you spend three years learning a new language, you should decide if you have any intention of visiting the country or living there. I can already picture your first visit, and then your thread titled "how do I know if the 'girl' I met online is actually a 'girl' before it's too late?"
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The expat flow is mostly outbound, mate. And those big tourism numbers (PR is sure to post shortly ) are massively inflated by Chinese, Koreans and Arabs.
As for Thai, I tried and failed after three courses of Thai. But your mileage may vary. Frankly, I lost interest in a language that is not terribly useful anywhere but Thailand and I knew some time ago I would leave the country (next month, in fact).
As for Thai, I tried and failed after three courses of Thai. But your mileage may vary. Frankly, I lost interest in a language that is not terribly useful anywhere but Thailand and I knew some time ago I would leave the country (next month, in fact).
"We want our country to develop step by step. But that is such a long way off . . . as far away as the stars."
Jobless father in documentary Cambodia: Country of Scars.
Jobless father in documentary Cambodia: Country of Scars.
I think that's dead right. There's no way you can learn Thai from a book. It took me about two years to get my Thai to a level where I could intelligibility interact with people, and do interviews etc. People do struggle with the tones, I had previously learned Mandarin, so the tones for me were not such a problem.ali baba wrote:Thai is tonal so that would be the biggest challenge in transitioning.
It would be far easier going from Thai to Khmer than the other way round. When I arrived in Cambodia it took me about six months to get basic language skills. Fortunately I had a driver that spoke Thai and Khmer and wanted to learn English. While out on the road we communicated in Thai and I taught him basic English and he taught me basic Khmer. I think he had the easier job because of the similarity of words and grammar in Thai and Khmer.
Try these out
- Jamie_Lambo
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they share loads of words tbh, they also share words that have different meaningsmerchantsmutual wrote:I found a dog-haired Thai phrasebook at a local used bookstore and it immediately became clear as I perused it that Khmer and Thai were related. There were near cognates like par sa ភាសារ or gaw bob កាបូប, similar grammatical structures like dee តើ for starting off a formal question, and even pom was just ខ្ញុំ.
Has anyone here become varying levels of proficient in both? How long would it take me as an ok Khmer speaker to be ok in Thai?
words like
Turosap - phone
Chivit - Life
etc
but also words that are different like
Go'at - means "more" instead of "him/her"
Nung - means "one" instead of "and"
etc.
i could give you more examples but im tired lol
Mean Dtuk Mean Trey, Mean Loy Mean Srey
Punchy McShortstacks School of Hard Knocks
Punchy McShortstacks School of Hard Knocks
I'd say it's much easier to learn Lao if you speak Thai than it is to learn Thai if you speak Khmer.
Sure, Khmer and Thai have many similar words and the alphabet will look familiar to someone who can read and write Khmer. But unlike if you are a Thai speaker looking to learn Lao, where in the beginning you can basically learn 30-40 of the most common words and lean on your Thai for the rest of it (as a lot of the words are very very similar) you will basically be able to travel all over Laos conversing with the locals with minimum effort.. This would certainly not be the case if you speak Khmer quite well and wanted to learn Thai using Khmer as a foundation.
In my opinion you'll more or less have to start all over. Though having learnt how to read and write Khmer will make it easier to learn how to read and write Thai, the vocabulary is so different on the whole that the amount of similar words between the two languages is of minimal help.
It's not very difficult to learn basic whore-Thai like many barangs do, but that is really not how most Thais speak. They speak a much more polite version of Thai and will not be very impressed with a barang speaking to them in whore-Thai..
If you are planning to learn Thai I would recommend putting just a little more effort into it and learn the proper way of speaking as it will get you much farther when you get to the level where you'd want to practice your Thai with Thais in shops, restaurants, coffee shops, etc. The chances of a non-whore Thai (there are actually quite many of them) engaging in a harmless conversation with a non native speaker is significantly larger if you speak proper Thai.
In my experience anyway..
Sure, Khmer and Thai have many similar words and the alphabet will look familiar to someone who can read and write Khmer. But unlike if you are a Thai speaker looking to learn Lao, where in the beginning you can basically learn 30-40 of the most common words and lean on your Thai for the rest of it (as a lot of the words are very very similar) you will basically be able to travel all over Laos conversing with the locals with minimum effort.. This would certainly not be the case if you speak Khmer quite well and wanted to learn Thai using Khmer as a foundation.
In my opinion you'll more or less have to start all over. Though having learnt how to read and write Khmer will make it easier to learn how to read and write Thai, the vocabulary is so different on the whole that the amount of similar words between the two languages is of minimal help.
It's not very difficult to learn basic whore-Thai like many barangs do, but that is really not how most Thais speak. They speak a much more polite version of Thai and will not be very impressed with a barang speaking to them in whore-Thai..
If you are planning to learn Thai I would recommend putting just a little more effort into it and learn the proper way of speaking as it will get you much farther when you get to the level where you'd want to practice your Thai with Thais in shops, restaurants, coffee shops, etc. The chances of a non-whore Thai (there are actually quite many of them) engaging in a harmless conversation with a non native speaker is significantly larger if you speak proper Thai.
In my experience anyway..
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same can be said with Khmer speakersdoktor_d wrote:I'd say it's much easier to learn Lao if you speak Thai than it is to learn Thai if you speak Khmer.
Sure, Khmer and Thai have many similar words and the alphabet will look familiar to someone who can read and write Khmer. But unlike if you are a Thai speaker looking to learn Lao, where in the beginning you can basically learn 30-40 of the most common words and lean on your Thai for the rest of it (as a lot of the words are very very similar) you will basically be able to travel all over Laos conversing with the locals with minimum effort.. This would certainly not be the case if you speak Khmer quite well and wanted to learn Thai using Khmer as a foundation.
In my opinion you'll more or less have to start all over. Though having learnt how to read and write Khmer will make it easier to learn how to read and write Thai, the vocabulary is so different on the whole that the amount of similar words between the two languages is of minimal help.
It's not very difficult to learn basic whore-Thai like many barangs do, but that is really not how most Thais speak. They speak a much more polite version of Thai and will not be very impressed with a barang speaking to them in whore-Thai..
If you are planning to learn Thai I would recommend putting just a little more effort into it and learn the proper way of speaking as it will get you much farther when you get to the level where you'd want to practice your Thai with Thais in shops, restaurants, coffee shops, etc. The chances of a non-whore Thai (there are actually quite many of them) engaging in a harmless conversation with a non native speaker is significantly larger if you speak proper Thai.
In my experience anyway..
Mean Dtuk Mean Trey, Mean Loy Mean Srey
Punchy McShortstacks School of Hard Knocks
Punchy McShortstacks School of Hard Knocks
Eh.. The same what exactly? The putting just a little more effort in to learn the proper/more polite way of speaking the language, etc. part?
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the part about, erm, have to try and remember now loldoktor_d wrote:Eh.. The same what exactly? The putting just a little more effort in to learn the proper/more polite way of speaking the language, etc. part?
i went to school and learnt how to speak/read/write Khmer, but sometimes i get so used to speaking informally with my khmer friends that when i speak to someone older aunt/uncle age or older, sometimes some of the language or how i structure my sentences (out of habit) could (and have done a few times) be seen as being disrespectful
Mean Dtuk Mean Trey, Mean Loy Mean Srey
Punchy McShortstacks School of Hard Knocks
Punchy McShortstacks School of Hard Knocks
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I find the very formal speaking and writing to be my comfort zone, as the majority of my interaction with Khmer is reading the paper in the morning, texting back and forth with ladies, and private lessons. So I am infinitely more comfortable with រាល់ថ្ងៃ than រ៉ង្ងែ and I find the low level Khmer infinitely more frustrating:Jamie_Lambo wrote:the part about, erm, have to try and remember now loldoktor_d wrote:Eh.. The same what exactly? The putting just a little more effort in to learn the proper/more polite way of speaking the language, etc. part?
i went to school and learnt how to speak/read/write Khmer, but sometimes i get so used to speaking informally with my khmer friends that when i speak to someone older aunt/uncle age or older, sometimes some of the language or how i structure my sentences (out of habit) could (and have done a few times) be seen as being disrespectful
Compare this that I am currently studying (hitting my head against) with my teacher:
With the clarity of this: (starting at around the 6:50ish mark)
I think my problem is I have spent so many hours texting that I have completely internalized the script. When Khmer people speak, the way I understand is I match each thing they say with the script and then basically have a running transcription in my head. I am not sure how to shake this habit, or if it's even a bad habit. I do the same thing with English.
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low level khmer? the informal common tongue is just a simplified more efficient way of talking,merchantsmutual wrote:I find the very formal speaking and writing to be my comfort zone, as the majority of my interaction with Khmer is reading the paper in the morning, texting back and forth with ladies, and private lessons. So I am infinitely more comfortable with រាល់ថ្ងៃ than រ៉ង្ងែ and I find the low level Khmer infinitely more frustrating:Jamie_Lambo wrote:the part about, erm, have to try and remember now loldoktor_d wrote:Eh.. The same what exactly? The putting just a little more effort in to learn the proper/more polite way of speaking the language, etc. part?
i went to school and learnt how to speak/read/write Khmer, but sometimes i get so used to speaking informally with my khmer friends that when i speak to someone older aunt/uncle age or older, sometimes some of the language or how i structure my sentences (out of habit) could (and have done a few times) be seen as being disrespectful
Compare this that I am currently studying (hitting my head against) with my teacher:
With the clarity of this: (starting at around the 6:50ish mark)
I think my problem is I have spent so many hours texting that I have completely internalized the script. When Khmer people speak, the way I understand is I match each thing they say with the script and then basically have a running transcription in my head. I am not sure how to shake this habit, or if it's even a bad habit. I do the same thing with English.
after school though i did basically had to re learn how to simplify everything that i had learnt (with the help of my friend)
as it just makes you sound like a young school kid, speaking so formally to someone of similar age
what is it you and your tutor are hitting your head against in
Mean Dtuk Mean Trey, Mean Loy Mean Srey
Punchy McShortstacks School of Hard Knocks
Punchy McShortstacks School of Hard Knocks
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For the past 6 months, my teacher and I learned by watching the tv program, ផ្ទះស្នេហ៍ (full house as KMF translated it), together. I would listen and transcribe a phrase in khmer then he would listen and correct/help me distinguish it. It was a good way to learn informal conversational Khmer and develop listening proficiency. By the last month, I was getting pretty good. Even if I missed a word or two I still understood enough to follow along.
Now, we are doing ពាកស៊ីពាល and it is like a whole new level. I feel like a total n00b.
Now, we are doing ពាកស៊ីពាល and it is like a whole new level. I feel like a total n00b.
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I think low level Khmer has a few things that distinguish it:
(1) more slang phrases and expressions. For instance, you don't hear the educated khmer say something like ចង់ស៊ីសាច់របស់អញ
(2) different frequency of words. ម៉េច becomes a very common word; phrases like ម៉េចចង់ម៉េច are more common
(3) any polysyllabic word gets cut down. ក្រដាស់ to កដាស់ for instance
(1) more slang phrases and expressions. For instance, you don't hear the educated khmer say something like ចង់ស៊ីសាច់របស់អញ
(2) different frequency of words. ម៉េច becomes a very common word; phrases like ម៉េចចង់ម៉េច are more common
(3) any polysyllabic word gets cut down. ក្រដាស់ to កដាស់ for instance
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