Siam Defeated. Really? When?
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Siam Defeated. Really? When?
Khmer's proudly boast that Siem Reap translates to Siam Defeated, but when? I understood that after the Ayuthaya's defeated Angkor in the 15th (?) century, Angkor was abandoned and ruled by Thailand for 400+ years until the French signed a border deal with Thailand giving Cambodia back it's northern provinces including Angkor Wat and that Siem Reap is a modern name for the town built near Angkor after they got it back. So, when did Khmer's defeat the Siamese to justify the name of which they so proudly boast?
According to wiki:
The name Siem Reap can be translated to mean 'Defeat of Siam' (Cambodians call Thailand Siam or “Siem”), and is commonly taken as a reference to an incident the centuries-old conflict between the Siamese and Khmer kingdoms, though this is probably apocryphal. According to oral tradition, King Ang Chan (1516–1566) had given it the name “Siem Reap”, meaning “the defeat of Siam”, after he repulsed an army sent to invade Cambodia by the Thai King Maha Chakkraphat in 1549.[2] However, scholars consider this derivation of the name to be a modern folk etymology, and maintain that the actual origin of the name of Siem Reap is unknown.[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siem_Reap
The name Siem Reap can be translated to mean 'Defeat of Siam' (Cambodians call Thailand Siam or “Siem”), and is commonly taken as a reference to an incident the centuries-old conflict between the Siamese and Khmer kingdoms, though this is probably apocryphal. According to oral tradition, King Ang Chan (1516–1566) had given it the name “Siem Reap”, meaning “the defeat of Siam”, after he repulsed an army sent to invade Cambodia by the Thai King Maha Chakkraphat in 1549.[2] However, scholars consider this derivation of the name to be a modern folk etymology, and maintain that the actual origin of the name of Siem Reap is unknown.[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siem_Reap
16th century. King Ang Chan allegedly . Didn't stick obviously. Cambodia was again a vassal state of Thailand by 1603.CrummyJuggler wrote:Khmer's proudly boast that Siem Reap translates to Siam Defeated, but when? I understood that after the Ayuthaya's defeated Angkor in the 15th (?) century, Angkor was abandoned and ruled by Thailand for 400+ years until the French signed a border deal with Thailand giving Cambodia back it's northern provinces including Angkor Wat and that Siem Reap is a modern name for the town built near Angkor after they got it back. So, when did Khmer's defeat the Siamese to justify the name of which they so proudly boast?
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Dictionary Apocryphal - "of doubtful authenticity" "false"
Last edited by CrummyJuggler on Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I heard two other versions for the name of Siem Reap. One is that it was the place where the Khmer forces prepared themselves to fight against the Siamese ("reap" means to prepare, get ready). Another is that it refers to the time when Siam was in control, administering ("reap" also means to manage).
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Yes, it's BS, and the result of your lack of knowledge of Khmer and Cambodian history. I thought so. Backpackers. LOL.CrummyJuggler wrote:Dictionary Apocryphal - "of doubtful authenticity" "false"
So it's (probably) B.S. I thought so. Kingdom of Wonder. lol.
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[quote="Joon"]I heard two other versions for the name of Siem Reap. One is that it was the place where the Khmer forces prepared themselves to fight against the Siamese ("reap" means to prepare, get ready). Another is that it refers to the time when Siam was in control, administering ("reap" also means to manage).[/quote]
Reap can also mean flatten. So Siem reap actually translates to Siamese flattened
Reap can also mean flatten. So Siem reap actually translates to Siamese flattened
Oh bugger, more false Khemer nationalist history! What about the Thai conquering Longveik and stealing all the Khmer law and culture, is that true?
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http://ki-media.blogspot.com.au/2011/12 ... touch.htmljm wrote:16th century. King Ang Chan allegedly . Didn't stick obviously. Cambodia was again a vassal state of Thailand by 1603.CrummyJuggler wrote:Khmer's proudly boast that Siem Reap translates to Siam Defeated, but when? I understood that after the Ayuthaya's defeated Angkor in the 15th (?) century, Angkor was abandoned and ruled by Thailand for 400+ years until the French signed a border deal with Thailand giving Cambodia back it's northern provinces including Angkor Wat and that Siem Reap is a modern name for the town built near Angkor after they got it back. So, when did Khmer's defeat the Siamese to justify the name of which they so proudly boast?
The name "សៀមរាប" was given by a Royal Decree of King Ang Chan (r 1516-1566) to commemorate the King's victory over Ayuthya troops' occupation. សៀមរាប or Siem Reap, litterally means "flattened Siamese".
According to Siamese chronicles from Ayuthya to Bangkok, period of 1500-1839, the province was as always called Muang Nakhon Siem rab. For example, the so-called Ayuthya Chronicle stated that in 1595-1596 AD , "Muang Nakhon Siem rab was taken by assualt by the Governor of Khorat". According to Siamese chronicles, the province was taken at least three times, the first time was in 1259, second time was in 1595 and third time was in 1838. According to the Bangkok chronicle, សៀម Siamese troops constructed a citadel in Angkor; the construction started from January 1839 under General Phya Raja Subhavati (correct title was Chau phya Bodindr Deja, mistaken by Aymonier, Le Cambodge (1901) as Chau Khun Bodin).
Thai/Tai never called "their" country "Siem" សៀម. "Siam "as the official name of the country was only from the periods of 1851-1868, and 1946-1947, respectively. They had called it Muang Thai or Muang Tai.
The etymology of Siem/ សៀម is from Sanskrit śyāma ឝ្យាម which means dark, black or black, name of Siva's wife; in the ancient Hindu treatise Vishnu Purana, "Syama" refered to the name of a mountain to the Northwest of Gulf of Thailand. From pre-Angkor to Angkor periods - 1400s, according to inscriptions, the Khmer wrote/said "Syāṃ (ស្យាំ)" or "Syaṃ (ស្យំ)". From 1400s-present, we write/say "សៀម/Siem".
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Re Cambodian military victories over the Siamese: The two equestrian statues on the riverside in front of Wat Unnalom are of Techo (a title given to valiant leaders who have protected the country) Meas and Techo Yort. Techo Meas routed an invading Siamese army in 1622, when Chey Chettha II (ruled 1619-1627) was king, and Meas' protégé Techo Yort inflicted defeat on the Siamese his forces he invaded that country in 1630, though he stopped in the vicinity of present day Khorat. You'll soon be able to read all about it in "King Norodom's Head".
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I'm not sure those are anything more than legends.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
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My favorite remains the legend of the cucumber KingLucky Lucan wrote:I'm not sure those are anything more than legends.
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I can't find anything on them, seems like legend;
Siamese -Cambodian war of 1622
After the death of Cambodia’s vassal King Srey Sauropor formerly known as Prince Srisuphanma, his son and successor Chettha II proclaimed Cambodia independent from Siamese domination.King Songtham the Just (Intharaja II) of Siam (Ayutthaya) dispatched expeditions by land and by sea to restore Siamese control. The fleet saw no action and soon sailed back to Siam. After deceitful guides led the Siamese army astray and off the good roadways, Cambodian forces dared to attack; the Siamese sustained severe losses in men, horses and war elephants and retreated. After this defeat, Songtham tried in vain to obtain English and Dutch help for another invasion.
From; http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.p ... opic=84740
Siamese -Cambodian war of 1622
After the death of Cambodia’s vassal King Srey Sauropor formerly known as Prince Srisuphanma, his son and successor Chettha II proclaimed Cambodia independent from Siamese domination.King Songtham the Just (Intharaja II) of Siam (Ayutthaya) dispatched expeditions by land and by sea to restore Siamese control. The fleet saw no action and soon sailed back to Siam. After deceitful guides led the Siamese army astray and off the good roadways, Cambodian forces dared to attack; the Siamese sustained severe losses in men, horses and war elephants and retreated. After this defeat, Songtham tried in vain to obtain English and Dutch help for another invasion.
From; http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.p ... opic=84740
Never mind.
There is a siem reap in kandal (?) Too. And many wat phnoms. There are other small villages with well known bigger town names, but i forget them now.
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