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Khmer Rouge Trial – Sticky for news articles
Khmer Rouge Trial – Sticky for news articles
Updates on the KRT/ECCC
Please credit source and provide a direct link to the original article.
Updates on the KRT/ECCC
Please credit source and provide a direct link to the original article.
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Ex-Khmer Rouge leader suffers stroke in detention pending trial
Mike Rosen-Molina at 1:36 PM ET
JURIST] Former Cambodian head of state Khieu Samphan [JURIST news archive] was hospitalized Wednesday after suffering a stroke. The fifth senior Khmer Rouge [JURIST news archive] leader to be detained by the Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia (ECCC) [official website], he was arrested [JURIST report] in November 2007 upon release from the hospital where he was receiving treatment after having suffered an earlier stroke [NYT report]. He has been detained while he awaits trial for atrocities allegedly committed against the Cambodian people. AP has more.
The Khmer Rouge is widely believed to be responsible for the genocide of an estimated 1.7 million Cambodians [PPU backgrounder] who died between 1975 and 1979. The Extraordinary Chambers have yet to convict any of the elderly indictees. In February, Samphan announced he was ending his cooperation with the ECCC [JURIST report]. Khieu Samphan's French lawyer, Jacques Verges , said that his client would not speak with court officials until court documents and pages of evidence against his client are translated into French.
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2 ... oke-in.php
Mike Rosen-Molina at 1:36 PM ET
JURIST] Former Cambodian head of state Khieu Samphan [JURIST news archive] was hospitalized Wednesday after suffering a stroke. The fifth senior Khmer Rouge [JURIST news archive] leader to be detained by the Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia (ECCC) [official website], he was arrested [JURIST report] in November 2007 upon release from the hospital where he was receiving treatment after having suffered an earlier stroke [NYT report]. He has been detained while he awaits trial for atrocities allegedly committed against the Cambodian people. AP has more.
The Khmer Rouge is widely believed to be responsible for the genocide of an estimated 1.7 million Cambodians [PPU backgrounder] who died between 1975 and 1979. The Extraordinary Chambers have yet to convict any of the elderly indictees. In February, Samphan announced he was ending his cooperation with the ECCC [JURIST report]. Khieu Samphan's French lawyer, Jacques Verges , said that his client would not speak with court officials until court documents and pages of evidence against his client are translated into French.
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2 ... oke-in.php
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Former Khmer Rouge foreign minister seeks release
By KER MUNTHIT
Associated Press Writer
PHNOM PENH, Cambodia —
Lawyers for the former foreign minister of Cambodia's Khmer Rouge argued Monday that he should be freed from pre-trial detention by the country's genocide tribunal because of ill health.
The United Nations-assisted court has charged Ieng Sary, 82, with crimes against humanity and war crimes.
The hearing on his appeal was adjourned early at the request of the defendant, who said he did not feel well enough to continue. It was set to continue Tuesday.
Ieng Sary is one of five defendants being held by the tribunal, which plans to hold its first trial later this year. His wife, 76-year-old Ieng Thirith, who served as the Khmer Rouge's social affairs minister, is among those being held on charges of crimes against humanity.
The tribunal, jointly run by Cambodian and international personnel, is attempting to establish accountability for atrocities committed by the communist group when it ruled Cambodia from 1975 to 1979.
The group's radical policies resulted in the deaths of an estimated 1.7 million people from starvation, disease, overwork and execution.
Dressed in a light-blue, long-sleeved shirt, the 82-year-old Ieng Sary was visibly infirm. Guards had to help him sit and stand up in his first courtroom appearance since his arrest last year.
Ieng Sary's defense team demanded that he be placed under either house arrest or protective hospitalization and undergo proper psychiatric examination to determine whether he is fit to stand trial.
Ieng Sary's "weak physical and mental capacity" makes him unable to fully assist his lawyers, Michael Karnavas, an American lawyer from Alaska, told the court.
"That's one of our primary issues here - the ability to follow proceedings. We cannot go forward on this very critical issue" relating to Ieng Sary's right to a fair trial, Karnavas said.
"A more robust individual could exercise all of his rights whereas someone who is not as robust, be it physical or mental, will have less," he said.
In their detention order in November, the new tribunal's investigating judges said Ieng Sary is being prosecuted for supporting Khmer Rouge policies that were "characterized by murder, extermination, imprisonment, persecution on political grounds and other inhuman acts such as forcible transfers of the population, enslavement and forced labor."
Ieng Sary has dismissed the charges as "unacceptable" and demanded evidence to support them, according to court documents.
Ieng Sary and his wife belonged to the inner circle of the Khmer Rouge and were in-laws of the movement's late leader.
When the hearing resumes Tuesday, the court will also consider whether its proceedings constitute double jeopardy, said Judge Prak Kimsan.
In many legal systems - including French law, upon which Cambodian law is based - you cannot prosecute a person a second time for a crime for which a judgment of guilt or innocence has already been rendered.
Ieng Sary was condemned to death in absentia by a communist government tribunal that was installed by Vietnamese troops after they toppled the Khmer Rouge regime in 1979. The tribunal lacked credibility because it was conducted as a classic Soviet-style show trial, with no real effort to present a defense.
In 1996, Ieng Sary received a royal pardon from the sentence from former King Norodom Sihanouk as a reward for breaking away from the Khmer Rouge and leading his followers to join the government. The mutiny foreshadowed the group's three years later in 1999.
The pardon has not yet been tested in court.
It was mentioned on the agenda for Ieng Sary's appeal, but the question of double jeopardy was raised for the first time Monday by Karnavas. Whether the issue has any standing under the tribunal's rules and whether there is any merit has not yet been determined.
In addition to Ieng Sary and his wife, the three other suspects in custody awaiting trial are Khieu Samphan, the former head of state, Nuon Chea, the former chief ideologist, and Kaing Guek Eav - also known as Duch - who headed the Khmer Rouge's S-21 torture center.
The tribunal has said it plans to start Duch's trial in September.
Copyright © 2008 The Seattle Times Company
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/n ... rouge.html
By KER MUNTHIT
Associated Press Writer
PHNOM PENH, Cambodia —
Lawyers for the former foreign minister of Cambodia's Khmer Rouge argued Monday that he should be freed from pre-trial detention by the country's genocide tribunal because of ill health.
The United Nations-assisted court has charged Ieng Sary, 82, with crimes against humanity and war crimes.
The hearing on his appeal was adjourned early at the request of the defendant, who said he did not feel well enough to continue. It was set to continue Tuesday.
Ieng Sary is one of five defendants being held by the tribunal, which plans to hold its first trial later this year. His wife, 76-year-old Ieng Thirith, who served as the Khmer Rouge's social affairs minister, is among those being held on charges of crimes against humanity.
The tribunal, jointly run by Cambodian and international personnel, is attempting to establish accountability for atrocities committed by the communist group when it ruled Cambodia from 1975 to 1979.
The group's radical policies resulted in the deaths of an estimated 1.7 million people from starvation, disease, overwork and execution.
Dressed in a light-blue, long-sleeved shirt, the 82-year-old Ieng Sary was visibly infirm. Guards had to help him sit and stand up in his first courtroom appearance since his arrest last year.
Ieng Sary's defense team demanded that he be placed under either house arrest or protective hospitalization and undergo proper psychiatric examination to determine whether he is fit to stand trial.
Ieng Sary's "weak physical and mental capacity" makes him unable to fully assist his lawyers, Michael Karnavas, an American lawyer from Alaska, told the court.
"That's one of our primary issues here - the ability to follow proceedings. We cannot go forward on this very critical issue" relating to Ieng Sary's right to a fair trial, Karnavas said.
"A more robust individual could exercise all of his rights whereas someone who is not as robust, be it physical or mental, will have less," he said.
In their detention order in November, the new tribunal's investigating judges said Ieng Sary is being prosecuted for supporting Khmer Rouge policies that were "characterized by murder, extermination, imprisonment, persecution on political grounds and other inhuman acts such as forcible transfers of the population, enslavement and forced labor."
Ieng Sary has dismissed the charges as "unacceptable" and demanded evidence to support them, according to court documents.
Ieng Sary and his wife belonged to the inner circle of the Khmer Rouge and were in-laws of the movement's late leader.
When the hearing resumes Tuesday, the court will also consider whether its proceedings constitute double jeopardy, said Judge Prak Kimsan.
In many legal systems - including French law, upon which Cambodian law is based - you cannot prosecute a person a second time for a crime for which a judgment of guilt or innocence has already been rendered.
Ieng Sary was condemned to death in absentia by a communist government tribunal that was installed by Vietnamese troops after they toppled the Khmer Rouge regime in 1979. The tribunal lacked credibility because it was conducted as a classic Soviet-style show trial, with no real effort to present a defense.
In 1996, Ieng Sary received a royal pardon from the sentence from former King Norodom Sihanouk as a reward for breaking away from the Khmer Rouge and leading his followers to join the government. The mutiny foreshadowed the group's three years later in 1999.
The pardon has not yet been tested in court.
It was mentioned on the agenda for Ieng Sary's appeal, but the question of double jeopardy was raised for the first time Monday by Karnavas. Whether the issue has any standing under the tribunal's rules and whether there is any merit has not yet been determined.
In addition to Ieng Sary and his wife, the three other suspects in custody awaiting trial are Khieu Samphan, the former head of state, Nuon Chea, the former chief ideologist, and Kaing Guek Eav - also known as Duch - who headed the Khmer Rouge's S-21 torture center.
The tribunal has said it plans to start Duch's trial in September.
Copyright © 2008 The Seattle Times Company
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/n ... rouge.html
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Former Khmer Rouge Minister Appears Before Cambodian Court
By Rory Byrne
Phnom Penh
30 June 2008
Former Khmer Rouge foreign minister leng Sary appeared before Cambodia's genocide tribunal to press for his release from pretrial detention. He is one of five defendants being held by the so-called Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia, set up to try the former leaders of the ultra-Maoist group for crimes against humanity. Rory Byrne reports for VOA from Phnom Penh.
Former Khmer Rouge Foreign Minister leng Sary (center) in Phnom Penh court, 30 June 2008
Looking visibly infirm, 82-year-old leng Sary appeared in court today to appeal for his release from pre-trial detention on the grounds of ill-health.
His lawyers said that he is too old and frail to pose a flight-risk or to threaten potential witnesses, and asked that he be placed under house arrest until his trial begins, probably next year.
Leng Sary is charged with crimes against humanity, committed during the brutal 1975-1979 rule by the Khmer Rouge, when almost two million people died from starvation, disease, overwork and execution.
Known as 'Brother Number Three' in the organization's secretive hierarchy, he was deputy prime minister as well as foreign minister of Democratic Kampuchea, as Cambodia was renamed by the Khmer Rouge. Using his position, he encouraged thousands of Cambodians living abroad to come home. Almost all were later executed.
Youk Channg is the director of the Documentation Center of Cambodia, which is compiling evidence on the Khmer Rouge regime ahead of the upcoming trials.
"He is sort of the international face of the Khmer Rouge, out there [to] convince the world, and the West, to believe that the regime was a success and was good for the country," said Channg. "His mission [was] to bring Cambodians abroad back to the country to help build the revolution - and usually [the] people ended up executed."
leng Sary was given an amnesty by the government in 1996 as a reward for breaking with the Khmer Rouge, along with hundreds of his supporters. Until his arrest last year, he lived in a palatial villa in the capital Phnom Penh, earning a small-fortune from gold and precious-stones interests.
Youk Channg says his prosecution is seen as particularly important for many Cambodians.
"He [was] the untouchable Khmer Rouge leader that has been protected by the government, given amnesty by the kings, and have so much money," said Channg. "So for all of us who is the victims having him arrested makes a huge difference."
leng Sary is one of five defendants being held by the tribunal, which plans to begin its first trial later this year. His wife, 76-year-old Ieng Thirith, who served as the Khmer Rouge's social affairs minister, is also being held on charges of crimes against humanity.
A decision on leng Sary's appeal is not expected for a couple of weeks. Similar appeals by other defendants have been rejected.
http://voanews.com/english/2008-06-30-voa40.cfm
By Rory Byrne
Phnom Penh
30 June 2008
Former Khmer Rouge foreign minister leng Sary appeared before Cambodia's genocide tribunal to press for his release from pretrial detention. He is one of five defendants being held by the so-called Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia, set up to try the former leaders of the ultra-Maoist group for crimes against humanity. Rory Byrne reports for VOA from Phnom Penh.
Former Khmer Rouge Foreign Minister leng Sary (center) in Phnom Penh court, 30 June 2008
Looking visibly infirm, 82-year-old leng Sary appeared in court today to appeal for his release from pre-trial detention on the grounds of ill-health.
His lawyers said that he is too old and frail to pose a flight-risk or to threaten potential witnesses, and asked that he be placed under house arrest until his trial begins, probably next year.
Leng Sary is charged with crimes against humanity, committed during the brutal 1975-1979 rule by the Khmer Rouge, when almost two million people died from starvation, disease, overwork and execution.
Known as 'Brother Number Three' in the organization's secretive hierarchy, he was deputy prime minister as well as foreign minister of Democratic Kampuchea, as Cambodia was renamed by the Khmer Rouge. Using his position, he encouraged thousands of Cambodians living abroad to come home. Almost all were later executed.
Youk Channg is the director of the Documentation Center of Cambodia, which is compiling evidence on the Khmer Rouge regime ahead of the upcoming trials.
"He is sort of the international face of the Khmer Rouge, out there [to] convince the world, and the West, to believe that the regime was a success and was good for the country," said Channg. "His mission [was] to bring Cambodians abroad back to the country to help build the revolution - and usually [the] people ended up executed."
leng Sary was given an amnesty by the government in 1996 as a reward for breaking with the Khmer Rouge, along with hundreds of his supporters. Until his arrest last year, he lived in a palatial villa in the capital Phnom Penh, earning a small-fortune from gold and precious-stones interests.
Youk Channg says his prosecution is seen as particularly important for many Cambodians.
"He [was] the untouchable Khmer Rouge leader that has been protected by the government, given amnesty by the kings, and have so much money," said Channg. "So for all of us who is the victims having him arrested makes a huge difference."
leng Sary is one of five defendants being held by the tribunal, which plans to begin its first trial later this year. His wife, 76-year-old Ieng Thirith, who served as the Khmer Rouge's social affairs minister, is also being held on charges of crimes against humanity.
A decision on leng Sary's appeal is not expected for a couple of weeks. Similar appeals by other defendants have been rejected.
http://voanews.com/english/2008-06-30-voa40.cfm
"We, the sons of John Company, have arrived"
Linguist and political philosopher Noam Chomsky speaks to the Post's George McLeod about the ‘farcical' shortcomings of Cambodia's war crimes court.
Noam Chomsky says the Khmer Rouge trial is a farce and that American leaders should be on trial for
illegally bombing Cambodia and supporting the Lon Nol dictatorship.
Top Khmer Rouge leaders are now in detention at the war crimes tribunal. Is a UN-backed trial the best way forward, or should it be left to the Cambodian people?
I think it should be left to the Cambodian people. I can't imagine a UN international trial. But then, it shouldn't be limited to the Cambodians. After all, an international trial that doesn't take into account Henry Kissinger or the other authors of the American bombing and the support of the KR after they were kicked out of the country . That's just a farce - especially with what we now know about the bombing of Cambodia since the release of the Kissinger-Nixon tapes and the release of declassified documents during the Clinton years. There has been a very different picture of the scale and intensity of the bombing and its genocidal scale. For an international trial to omit this would be scandalous.
How far down the chain of command should prosecutions go?
I think that's a decision for Cambodians to make. The questions should be: Should [the prosecutions] be limited to KR criminals, or how about criminals from the Lon Nol regime, or later, but those are decisions the Cambodians need to make.
You can make a case for an internationally run trial, but as I said, it would be absolutely farcical if it was restricted to Cambodians.
The records say that the US wanted to "use anything that flies against anything that moves" [during the bombing of Cambodia], which led to five times the bombing that was reported before, greater than all bombing in all theatres of WWII, which helped create the Khmer Rouge.
So to try to excuse their crimes from the broader picture may be sensible for Cambodians who are trying to find some internal justice and reconciliation, but for the broader picture, it's simply farcical.
So you think US leaders should be tried in connection with the DK regime?
Not just in the context of the DK regime - that's afterwards. I think supporting the KR after the DK, after they were kicked out - or supporting the Chinese invasion to punish Vietnam for the crime of driving them out - that's a crime in itself. But the much worse crime was by Kissinger-Nixon, and it's pretty hard to disagree with analysts like Ben Kiernan ... who released the documentation during the Clinton years. Their conclusion was that this bombing, which really had genocidal intent - anything that flies against anything that moves - essentially changed the KR from a small group into a mass army of what they call enraged peasants bent on revenge. How could you omit that when you are discussing the Khmer Rouge atrocities?
Are you saying the KRT is a show trial?
These trials altogether have a very strange character - the most serious of all the tribunals since WWII was the Nuremburg trials, and that was a well-designed, carefully executed legal proceeding.
But if you look at it closely, it was a farce. That was implicitly conceded to allow the Nazi war criminals to be tried. They were some of the worst monsters in history - and there is no doubt they were guilty. They had to define a notion of war crime, and it was post-facto - they were being tried for crimes after they committed them.
The trial had a very clear definition of war crime - it was crimes that you committed and that [the Allies] didn't.
So, for example, the bombing of urban centres was not considered a crime and the reason is very explicit: The Allies did more of it than the Germans.
The bombing of Japan frankly levelled the country and was not considered a crime because [the Allies] did it - in fact, German war criminals were able to exonerate themselves if their defence was able to demonstrate that their counterparts in the West did the same thing.
For example, a German submarine admiral who did commit war crimes by normal standards was freed from those charges when he brought into evidence testimony from an admiral in the British and American navy saying, ‘Yeah, that's what we did, too'. This was recognised, and chief prosecutor Jackson, he made a very eloquent speech to the tribunal where he said we were handing the defendants here a poisoned chalice, and if we sip from it, we must suffer the same punishment or else the trial is meaningless.
Well, we have sipped from that chalice numerous times since. The chief crime was the crime of aggression - the supreme international crime - and count the times the US and Britain have been guilty of outright aggression. Have they been tried?
It's a farce - victor's justice - and if you run through the rest of the trials, they pretty much have the same properties. In fact, I can't think of one that has been honest in this respect - the only ones I can think of that have been honest are the Truth and Reconciliation Commissions like in South Africa, El Salvador or Guatemala, where they brought out what happened and identified the perpetrators. And in many cases, it was done very honestly, and by the victims - they're the ones that testified.
Why are the KR on trial and not other leaders? Some Israeli generals, for example, have been accused of crimes against humanity.
An Israeli general would never be tried because they are backed by the US. These things reflect power systems. Very often, the people that are tried deserve to be tried and sentenced, but the structure of the trials has exonerated the powerful.
The position is extreme. The US is the most powerful country in the world, and it's also the most extreme in rejecting any form of judicial control. It is the only country that rejected a world court decision.... And that's why an Israeli general can't be tried. If an Israeli was brought to The Hague, the US might invoke what Europeans call The Netherlands Invasion Act. The US has legislation authorising the president to use force to rescue any American brought to The Hague.
So you're saying that this trial is not about justice?
There is an element that is about justice. You take Nuremburg again. There is no doubt that the accused were guilty - but is it justice? You take [executed Nazi Foreign Minister Joachim von] Ribbentrop - one of the crimes for which he was sentenced was that he supported a pre-emptive strike against Norway. Well, at a time, Norway was a threat to Nazi Germany, of course, and he ordered a pre-emptive strike. But what did Colin Powell do? Iraq was no threat.
Some have accused you of writing favourably about the Khmer Rouge. Were you unfairly criticised?
It's ridiculous. In fact, there has been a massive critique of some of the things that Edward Herman and I wrote, and my view is that they were some of the most accurate things that were written in history.
Nobody has been able to find a missed comma, which is not surprising. Before we published the chapter, we had it reviewed by most of the leading specialists on the topic, who made some suggestions, but basically nothing.
Our main conclusion was: You have to tell the truth - don't lie about our crimes by denying them, and don't lie about their crimes by exaggerating them. In fact, what we actually did ... the main thesis is a comparison between Cambodia and East Timor. And it's a natural comparison: massive atrocities going on in the same part of the world - the same years. East Timor went on for another 25 years afterwards, and relative to population, they were about at the same scale. And what we found was that there was massive lying, but in opposite directions.
In the case of East Timor, it was ignored and denied. In the case of Cambodia, it was wild accusations without a particle of evidence. So what was the fundamental difference? In Indonesia, we were responsible, and we could have done something. But in the other case, an enemy was responsible.
A major Israeli delegation visited Cambodia recently. Should Cambodia be embracing trade with Israel, or do you back a boycott?
It's the same moral issue that arises all the time - even with the trials. Yes, Israel is doing terrible things. Why? Because the US is supporting it. It's like Indonesia and East Timor. As soon as Clinton told the Indonesians that it's over-they didn't have to bomb or boycott - they just told them it's over. They withdrew instantly. If the US stopped providing military, economic, ideological support, Israel couldn't do what it's doing. Well, why doesn't anyone talk about boycotting the US? Because it's too powerful.
http://www.phnompenhpost.com/index.php/ ... omsky.html
Noam Chomsky says the Khmer Rouge trial is a farce and that American leaders should be on trial for
illegally bombing Cambodia and supporting the Lon Nol dictatorship.
Top Khmer Rouge leaders are now in detention at the war crimes tribunal. Is a UN-backed trial the best way forward, or should it be left to the Cambodian people?
I think it should be left to the Cambodian people. I can't imagine a UN international trial. But then, it shouldn't be limited to the Cambodians. After all, an international trial that doesn't take into account Henry Kissinger or the other authors of the American bombing and the support of the KR after they were kicked out of the country . That's just a farce - especially with what we now know about the bombing of Cambodia since the release of the Kissinger-Nixon tapes and the release of declassified documents during the Clinton years. There has been a very different picture of the scale and intensity of the bombing and its genocidal scale. For an international trial to omit this would be scandalous.
How far down the chain of command should prosecutions go?
I think that's a decision for Cambodians to make. The questions should be: Should [the prosecutions] be limited to KR criminals, or how about criminals from the Lon Nol regime, or later, but those are decisions the Cambodians need to make.
You can make a case for an internationally run trial, but as I said, it would be absolutely farcical if it was restricted to Cambodians.
The records say that the US wanted to "use anything that flies against anything that moves" [during the bombing of Cambodia], which led to five times the bombing that was reported before, greater than all bombing in all theatres of WWII, which helped create the Khmer Rouge.
So to try to excuse their crimes from the broader picture may be sensible for Cambodians who are trying to find some internal justice and reconciliation, but for the broader picture, it's simply farcical.
So you think US leaders should be tried in connection with the DK regime?
Not just in the context of the DK regime - that's afterwards. I think supporting the KR after the DK, after they were kicked out - or supporting the Chinese invasion to punish Vietnam for the crime of driving them out - that's a crime in itself. But the much worse crime was by Kissinger-Nixon, and it's pretty hard to disagree with analysts like Ben Kiernan ... who released the documentation during the Clinton years. Their conclusion was that this bombing, which really had genocidal intent - anything that flies against anything that moves - essentially changed the KR from a small group into a mass army of what they call enraged peasants bent on revenge. How could you omit that when you are discussing the Khmer Rouge atrocities?
Are you saying the KRT is a show trial?
These trials altogether have a very strange character - the most serious of all the tribunals since WWII was the Nuremburg trials, and that was a well-designed, carefully executed legal proceeding.
But if you look at it closely, it was a farce. That was implicitly conceded to allow the Nazi war criminals to be tried. They were some of the worst monsters in history - and there is no doubt they were guilty. They had to define a notion of war crime, and it was post-facto - they were being tried for crimes after they committed them.
The trial had a very clear definition of war crime - it was crimes that you committed and that [the Allies] didn't.
So, for example, the bombing of urban centres was not considered a crime and the reason is very explicit: The Allies did more of it than the Germans.
The bombing of Japan frankly levelled the country and was not considered a crime because [the Allies] did it - in fact, German war criminals were able to exonerate themselves if their defence was able to demonstrate that their counterparts in the West did the same thing.
For example, a German submarine admiral who did commit war crimes by normal standards was freed from those charges when he brought into evidence testimony from an admiral in the British and American navy saying, ‘Yeah, that's what we did, too'. This was recognised, and chief prosecutor Jackson, he made a very eloquent speech to the tribunal where he said we were handing the defendants here a poisoned chalice, and if we sip from it, we must suffer the same punishment or else the trial is meaningless.
Well, we have sipped from that chalice numerous times since. The chief crime was the crime of aggression - the supreme international crime - and count the times the US and Britain have been guilty of outright aggression. Have they been tried?
It's a farce - victor's justice - and if you run through the rest of the trials, they pretty much have the same properties. In fact, I can't think of one that has been honest in this respect - the only ones I can think of that have been honest are the Truth and Reconciliation Commissions like in South Africa, El Salvador or Guatemala, where they brought out what happened and identified the perpetrators. And in many cases, it was done very honestly, and by the victims - they're the ones that testified.
Why are the KR on trial and not other leaders? Some Israeli generals, for example, have been accused of crimes against humanity.
An Israeli general would never be tried because they are backed by the US. These things reflect power systems. Very often, the people that are tried deserve to be tried and sentenced, but the structure of the trials has exonerated the powerful.
The position is extreme. The US is the most powerful country in the world, and it's also the most extreme in rejecting any form of judicial control. It is the only country that rejected a world court decision.... And that's why an Israeli general can't be tried. If an Israeli was brought to The Hague, the US might invoke what Europeans call The Netherlands Invasion Act. The US has legislation authorising the president to use force to rescue any American brought to The Hague.
So you're saying that this trial is not about justice?
There is an element that is about justice. You take Nuremburg again. There is no doubt that the accused were guilty - but is it justice? You take [executed Nazi Foreign Minister Joachim von] Ribbentrop - one of the crimes for which he was sentenced was that he supported a pre-emptive strike against Norway. Well, at a time, Norway was a threat to Nazi Germany, of course, and he ordered a pre-emptive strike. But what did Colin Powell do? Iraq was no threat.
Some have accused you of writing favourably about the Khmer Rouge. Were you unfairly criticised?
It's ridiculous. In fact, there has been a massive critique of some of the things that Edward Herman and I wrote, and my view is that they were some of the most accurate things that were written in history.
Nobody has been able to find a missed comma, which is not surprising. Before we published the chapter, we had it reviewed by most of the leading specialists on the topic, who made some suggestions, but basically nothing.
Our main conclusion was: You have to tell the truth - don't lie about our crimes by denying them, and don't lie about their crimes by exaggerating them. In fact, what we actually did ... the main thesis is a comparison between Cambodia and East Timor. And it's a natural comparison: massive atrocities going on in the same part of the world - the same years. East Timor went on for another 25 years afterwards, and relative to population, they were about at the same scale. And what we found was that there was massive lying, but in opposite directions.
In the case of East Timor, it was ignored and denied. In the case of Cambodia, it was wild accusations without a particle of evidence. So what was the fundamental difference? In Indonesia, we were responsible, and we could have done something. But in the other case, an enemy was responsible.
A major Israeli delegation visited Cambodia recently. Should Cambodia be embracing trade with Israel, or do you back a boycott?
It's the same moral issue that arises all the time - even with the trials. Yes, Israel is doing terrible things. Why? Because the US is supporting it. It's like Indonesia and East Timor. As soon as Clinton told the Indonesians that it's over-they didn't have to bomb or boycott - they just told them it's over. They withdrew instantly. If the US stopped providing military, economic, ideological support, Israel couldn't do what it's doing. Well, why doesn't anyone talk about boycotting the US? Because it's too powerful.
http://www.phnompenhpost.com/index.php/ ... omsky.html
"Norway was a threat to Nazi Germany"!!!??? COME ON
So many good points but his analogies are apples and oranges.
So many good points but his analogies are apples and oranges.
If I knew for certain that a person was coming to my house with the intent of doing me good, I would run for my life HDT
I don't really think he meant the military power of Norway, but rather the countrys geographical position..
"..it was imperative to keep Britain from gaining any toehold in the continent anywhere because they could use it as an airbase and bomb German cities or oil refineries and the like that supply the German army. When Britain made a move for Norway, Germany responded by invading and conquering Denmark and Norway for itself."
Denmark were waving white flags even before the Germans entered the country. The Danes collaborated with the Germans until August in '43 giving the Germans easy access to Norway.
"..it was imperative to keep Britain from gaining any toehold in the continent anywhere because they could use it as an airbase and bomb German cities or oil refineries and the like that supply the German army. When Britain made a move for Norway, Germany responded by invading and conquering Denmark and Norway for itself."
Geopolitics, geography, and strategy by Colin S. Gray, Geoffrey R. Sloan wrote:In 1940, the Wermacht secured a geographical position in France and Norway for the conduct of naval war, of which German naval theorists of the interwar period could only dream. Success in military operations in april-june 1940 yielded the Kriegsmarine U-boat bases in Norway and on the Biscay coast of France. Truly, this was maritime 'strategic geography' with a vengeance.
BBC wrote:A few months into World War Two, in April 1940, Adolf Hitler made a huge strategic gamble. He and his strategists knew that Norwegian coastal waters were vital for the transport of Swedish iron ore via Narvik to German blast furnaces. And, more generally, recognised that German control of Norwegian waters would make breaking the Allied blockade of Germany a little easier.
The German Decision To Invade Norway and Denmark by Earl F. Ziemke wrote:on 1 March, Hitler issued the "Directive for Case WESERUEBUNG," which set forth the general requirements for the operation and authorized the beginning of operational planning. The stated strategic objectives were to forestall British intervention in Scandinavia and the Baltic, provide security for the sources of Swedish iron ore, and give the German Navy and Air Force advanced bases for attacks on the British Isles. Daring and surprise were to be relied on rather than strength in terms of number of troops. The idea of a "peaceful" occupation to provide armed protection for the neutrality of the Scandinavian countries was to be basic to the whole operation. Von Falkenhorst as Commanding General, Group XXI, was to be directly subordinate to Hitler. Denmark and Norway were to be occupied simultaneously, with WESERUEBUNG SUED involving the occupation of all of Denmark and WESERUEBUNG NORD the occupation of Norway by means of air and seaborne landings at the most important places along the coast.
At least Norway lasted 2 months..( plus the Norwegian underground did a lot of damage to the Germans as well with a series of sabotage acts after 1942, with help from Allied bombing, they disrupted the German production of heavy water in a secluded hydroelectric plant of Telemark. As a result, the Germans decided to abandon the plant and move its components to Germany. But a ferryboat carrying the heavy water was the target of another Norwegian sabotage operation and sank in a lake, halting the development of a Nazi atomic bomb for good.)Wikipedia wrote:The Norwegian campaign was the battle for control of Norway and its strategic position and influence in regard to mineral resources and access to the Baltic Sea. Both Germany and the Allies planned actions of military intervention, but Germany was first to act, launching their Operation Weserübung on April 9, 1940, ahead of the less well organized Allied campaign in Norway. Part of the campaign was the capture of Denmark by German forces, with Copenhagen falling to Germany within hours. The Norwegian portion of the campaign lasted until June 10, 1940, when the Allied forces completed their withdrawal, allowing Axis occupation of Norway which would last for the remainder of the war.
Denmark were waving white flags even before the Germans entered the country. The Danes collaborated with the Germans until August in '43 giving the Germans easy access to Norway.
Last edited by doktor_d on Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:02 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Alcohol is necessary so that a man can have a good opinion of himself, undisturbed by the facts
Yep.. They were already planning to during the Finnish-Russian war. And in WWII they had already planted mines in Norwegian waters thereby violating Norways neutrality when the Germans decided to invade. I saw a documentary where Norwegian soldiers were talking about how they got caught with their pants down when the first German boats came (in the north of Norway), because they had initially thought it was the Brits so they didn't open fire, and when they saw it was the Germans it was already too late..SunSan wrote:If the Germans hadn't occupied Norway (for its iron ore by the way) the Brits would have.
www.encyclopedia.com wrote:During the Finnish–Soviet war France and the UK had been preparing an expeditionary force to seize control of the port of Narvik—the only all-weather outlet for Swedish iron ore—under cover of aid to Finland. Rumours about such preparations led the Germans to plan counter-moves which would amount to a full-scale occupation of Denmark and Norway (WESERÜBUNG). The Soviet–Finnish armistice on 13 March led to the abandonment of Allied preparations, but Raeder, the chief of the German Navy, persuaded Hitler that WESERÜBUNG should be carried out as soon as possible, before the assembled naval forces had to be dispersed. The final order was given on 2 April, and the first supply ships left port the following day.
In the meantime the Anglo-French Supreme War Council, giving in to pressure to break the inactivity of the phoney war, had decided to lay mines on the Norwegian coast to force German ore vessels from Narvik out into the open seas where they could be attacked by the Royal Navy. The mines were laid in the morning of 8 April, by which time minor British forces had also been embarked on warships to counter possible German retaliatory moves against Norway. During that day it gradually dawned on the British Admiralty that a major German operation against Denmark and Norway was on its way, independent of Allied plans.
Alcohol is necessary so that a man can have a good opinion of himself, undisturbed by the facts
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Duch verdict set for July 26
PHNOM PENH - THE verdict in the trial of Khmer Rouge prison chief Duch will be announced on July 26, an official at Cambodia's UN-backed genocide court said on Monday.
The 67-year-old Duch, whose real name is Kaing Guek Eav, is the first leader from the hardline 1975-1979 communist regime to face international justice.
'Hopefully it will be a turning point for the people of Cambodia who have waited for more than 30 years to see someone from the Khmer Rouge brought to justice,' court spokesman Lars Olsen said in announcing the verdict date.
Up to two million people were executed or died of starvation, disease and overwork as the 1975-1979 Khmer Rouge movement emptied cities and enslaved the population on collective farms in its bid to create a communist utopia.
Duch acknowledged responsibility and begged forgiveness for overseeing the torture and execution of more than 15,000 people at the notorious Tuol Sleng prison during his trial, which began in February last year. -- AFP
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Investigators' spat reveals more divisions at Khmer Rouge tribunal
Phnom Penh - Further divisions in Cambodia's war crimes tribunal came to light Wednesday after its two senior investigators openly disagreed on when to proceed with cases against five new suspects.
The hybrid UN-Cambodian court, which is tasked with trying those responsible for Khmer Rouge-era crimes, has a dual structure in which local and foreign staff fill equal positions in each of the court's operational areas.
Documents released Wednesday showed Cambodian investigating judge You Bunleng reversed an earlier agreement with his international counterpart to start investigations into the five suspects, none of whom has been named by the court.
Court spokesman Lars Olsen said tribunal rules meant international investigating judge Marcel Lemonde would proceed alone.
'The international investigating judge will go ahead by himself and start the investigation,' Olsen said.
In his memorandum to Lemonde, You Bunleng said he had changed his mind after taking into account several factors, including the state of Cambodia's society.
That echoed comments made by Prime Minister Hun Sen, who has argued that the prosecutions could lead to civil war. His weighing-in on the tribunal led to accusations of political interference.
You Bunleng told his international counterpart that they could discuss the issue in September once formal notices to prosecute four ageing Khmer Rouge leaders now in custody were issued.
Youk Chhang - who heads DC-Cam, an archive of material relating to the 1975-79 rule of the Khmer Rouge - said he was encouraged that You Bunleng had not ruled out investigating the new cases.
'The good news is that he is not saying no,' Youk Chhang said in reference to fears that political pressure could stop those cases.
Judgement in the tribunal's first case - that of the former head of the S-21 prison, Comrade Duch - was scheduled for July 26. Duch was prosecuted for war crimes and crimes against humanity for his role in the deaths of more than 12,000 people who entered S-21 in Phnom Penh.
The four surviving senior leaders of the Khmer Rouge are in detention for their alleged involvement in the deaths of 1.7 million people. Their trials were expected to begin early next year.
The four are: former Brother Number Two Nuon Chea, the movement's ideologue; former head of state Khieu Samphan; former foreign minister Ieng Sary; and his wife, the former social affairs minister Ieng Thirith.
Around 1.7 million people are thought to have died from execution, disease, starvation and overwork during the Khmer Rouge's rule of Cambodia. Its leader, Pol Pot, died in 1998 on the Thai-Cambodian border.
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Japan injects $2.25 mil for budget shortfall of Khmer Rouge trial
TOKYO — The Japanese government on Friday injected an additional $2.25 million to cover costs of the ongoing U.N.-backed Cambodian war crimes court. The latest injection was made at the request of Cambodia, which said 294 local staffers of the Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia have not been paid for two and a half months.
Japanese Ambassador to Cambodia Masafumi Kuroki said the contribution will cover the shortfall of the national component of the ECCC operational costs from mid-April to September 2010. Kuroki said the Japanese government attaches importance to the Khmer Rouge tribunal for the main purposes of ‘‘preventing the recurrence of atrocities committed during the Khmer Rouge regime, delivering justice to the victims and strengthening the rule of law in Cambodia.’’
As for the Khmer staff not being paid, this has been an ongoing issue for a few years. A number of International staff have been financially supporting their Khmer staff when salary payments fail to arrive. Maybe everytime a Khmer employee is not paid on time funding should be deducted from the International Judges salaries to compensate for the late payment of the Khmer staff. I bet one would see a quick turn around and salaries for the Khmer would be paid on time
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Report: "Corrosive" interference could see Khmer Rouge court fail
Phnom Penh - An international organization monitoring the Khmer Rouge tribunal has warned that the court risks failing due to the 'corrosive impact of political interference' by government officials.
In a hard-hitting report released late Tuesday in New York, the Open Society Justice Initiative (OSJI) said the United Nations, international donors and international court staff must demand an end to political interference to ensure its credibility.
'Troubling evidence exists that the Cambodian government is improperly attempting to limit what the court can and cannot do,' the report stated.
It also said the court must be more transparent in its decision-making, saying it had overly favoured confidentiality over transparency.
The OSJI cited two key instances it said showed Cambodian government officials attempting to influence the actions of the court and blatantly ignoring the tribunal law.
Late last year the government said international court staff could 'pack up their clothes and return home.' That followed Phnom Penh's position that six senior ruling party figures could ignore summonses issued by the tribunal, which had sought their testimony.
In another incident, Prime Minister Hun Sen publicly opposed the court's desire to investigate five more ex-Khmer Rouge in addition to the five already in custody, claiming that would risk civil war.
The report said both examples were unacceptable invasions of the court's independence and against tribunal law, and chastised the UN for failing to react.
The court's UN coordinator, Norwegian Knut Rosandhaug, said in a statement he was not aware of political interference 'as I do not believe the public statements referred to, qualify as such.'
Rosandhaug said he expected court staff would ignore any attempts at political interference, adding that he believed international standards were being followed.
The report comes ahead of the July 26 verdict in the trial of Kaing Guek Eav, also known as Duch, the former head of the Khmer Rouge's main torture and execution centre S-21.
Duch was charged with crimes against humanity and war crimes in a trial OSJI said had proved rewarding for many Cambodians.
The remit of the court, which is a hybrid UN-Cambodian body, is to try those considered most responsible for crimes committed by the Khmer Rouge regime during the movement's rule between 1975 and 1979.
The four surviving senior leaders of the Khmer Rouge are in detention for their alleged involvement in the deaths of 1.7 million people. Their trials are expected to begin early next year.
The four are: former Brother Number Two Nuon Chea, the movement's ideologue; former head of state Khieu Samphan; former foreign minister Ieng Sary; and his wife, the former social affairs minister Ieng Thirith.
The movement's leader, Pol Pot, died in 1998.
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