Thanks for the added posts. However I'm having a little trouble following what you're all saying.
1. What is a grey girl.
2. I found what Barang means. Is there a social or sexual stigma associated with a woman with a history that includes a Barang boyfriend?
3. Does having had such a boyfriend imply that she's no longer a virgin?
If so, why? And why would, say, a history of a Khmer boyfriend NOT imply the same thing?
Traditional Khmer Gender Roles
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a grey girl is a girl that is not a white cloth anymore, usually used to describe sexually active girls who arent marriedBonander wrote:Thanks for the added posts. However I'm having a little trouble following what you're all saying.
1. What is a grey girl.
2. I found what Barang means. Is there a social or sexual stigma associated with a woman with a history that includes a Barang boyfriend?
3. Does having had such a boyfriend imply that she's no longer a virgin?
If so, why? And why would, say, a history of a Khmer boyfriend NOT imply the same thing?
for me its just personal preference, i often find girls that have had Barang BF's before irritating, often picking up habits/traits from their Barang ex
yeah more often than not
im not sure how to word the answer to your last question, but for me personally see my answer above
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A few years back I briefly dated one grey girl who had recently broken up with her barang bf (he got so pissed off with her he left the country).Jamie_Lambo wrote: ... i often find girls that have had Barang BF's before irritating, often picking up habits/traits from their Barang
After a few months I realised/found out that she was actually using barang in its correct sense (not as is commonly used instead of boratay)
Yup, she had had an actually dated one of The Cursed French.
Obviously I was left with no choice at that point other than to dump her expensive and arrogant arse.
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It could be used to describe a divorcee or widow too.Jamie_Lambo wrote:
a grey girl is a girl that is not a white cloth anymore, usually used to describe sexually active girls who arent married
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yeah of coarseLucky Lucan wrote:It could be used to describe a divorcee or widow too.Jamie_Lambo wrote:
a grey girl is a girl that is not a white cloth anymore, usually used to describe sexually active girls who arent married
all intended to be under the "arent married" umbrella, was just keeping it simple
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Daytime Drinking is tomorrow.violet wrote:Did someone mention cocktails? Are we daytime drinking today?
Today is early evening drinking.
Keep up woman !
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Originally when I coined the phrase Grey Girls [ (c) Playboy 2004 *1 ] it only really referred to widows and divorcees as they were just about the only single girls that would be / could be sexually active.Jamie_Lambo wrote:yeah of coarseLucky Lucan wrote:It could be used to describe a divorcee or widow too.Jamie_Lambo wrote:
a grey girl is a girl that is not a white cloth anymore, usually used to describe sexually active girls who arent married
all intended to be under the "arent married" umbrella, was just keeping it simple
Although the situation has changed a lot over the past years to include those who would normally have been 'White' or 'Good' girls as Cambodia's own Slowly, Slowly, Sexual Revolution [*2] has been taking place.
Footnotes:
*1 - see the collected Grey Girl papers on the 440 archives, parts I through to VII 2004, 2005 for more details
*2 - the Khmer Slow Slow Sexual Revolution probably made a glacial start in around 2008, it built up, to the turtle paced Slowly Slowly Sexual Revolution around 2011/2012. It is expected to reach the speed of the Giant African Snail as it enters the Slow Sexual Revolution phase in 2020 (estimated)
Nota Bene: all time lines and projections are estimates and based in the majority of activities in Phnom Penh - secondary data from the larger provincial capital cities
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Same here brother. I find such girls tend to carry a lot of emotional baggage, regardless of whether their ex was Khmer or foreign. I also don't really like the ones that have weird western traits or characteristics, it’s a total turn-off for me. Don't get me wrong: I don't like my girls to be of the extremely shy/quiet "srey sopheap" variety, but I also don't like the westernized chicks who always hang out with foreigners, dress like they’re from New York, speak with an awful semi-American accent or say "mate" all the time because they hang out with aussies. There's a fine line...Jamie_Lambo wrote:a grey girl is a girl that is not a white cloth anymore, usually used to describe sexually active girls who arent marriedBonander wrote:Thanks for the added posts. However I'm having a little trouble following what you're all saying.
1. What is a grey girl.
2. I found what Barang means. Is there a social or sexual stigma associated with a woman with a history that includes a Barang boyfriend?
3. Does having had such a boyfriend imply that she's no longer a virgin?
If so, why? And why would, say, a history of a Khmer boyfriend NOT imply the same thing?
for me its just personal preference, i often find girls that have had Barang BF's before irritating, often picking up habits/traits from their Barang ex
yeah more often than not
im not sure how to word the answer to your last question, but for me personally see my answer above
Anyways, it's worth mentioning that the expression sounds a bit pejorative, but it really isn't (or shouldn't be). I've dated and slept with lots of grey girls and I don't mind them too much (except those weird American accents). To be honest, by now almost all of my female friends would fall into the grey girl category. That includes girls of all walks of life, from restaurant workers to chicks who make just under $2k/month.
To answer questions 2 and 3: I personally haven't met a Khmer girl who's dated foreigners and has gone back to Khmers. I think it's for two reasons: she knows most Khmers wouldn't want her, but she's also had a taste of the "freedom" being with a foreigner means, and enjoys it. Having a boyfriend (especially Khmer) doesn't mean they're sexually active at all. Originally, having a boyfriend or girlfriend meant you were close to being engaged. Many are sexually active now, but exact numebrs are impossible to come by.
I think it goes without saying. Any girl who isn't a virgin anymore and was/is sexually active (and single) is a grey girl.Lucky Lucan wrote:It could be used to describe a divorcee or widow too.
For the record, a while ago I was at a beer garden with a bunch of Khmer dudes (all sort of youngish mid 20s to mid 30s middle-class types) and when the topic about virginity came up, more than half of them said they didn't care about her past. Times are changing very quickly, and though it's still difficult for a girl who is known to have been sexually active (had a boyfriend, fiancée) to get a husband, especially in the countryside, it's still possible. A lot of guys aren't as hung up over it as they used to be, mainly because a lot more of the younger generation have girlfriends/boyfriends (and are sexually active together) than before.
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yup, agree, good postLexusSchmexus wrote:Same here brother. I find such girls tend to carry a lot of emotional baggage, regardless of whether their ex was Khmer or foreign. I also don't really like the ones that have weird western traits or characteristics, it’s a total turn-off for me. Don't get me wrong: I don't like my girls to be of the extremely shy/quiet "srey sopheap" variety, but I also don't like the westernized chicks who always hang out with foreigners, dress like they’re from New York, speak with an awful semi-American accent or say "mate" all the time because they hang out with aussies. There's a fine line...Jamie_Lambo wrote:a grey girl is a girl that is not a white cloth anymore, usually used to describe sexually active girls who arent marriedBonander wrote:Thanks for the added posts. However I'm having a little trouble following what you're all saying.
1. What is a grey girl.
2. I found what Barang means. Is there a social or sexual stigma associated with a woman with a history that includes a Barang boyfriend?
3. Does having had such a boyfriend imply that she's no longer a virgin?
If so, why? And why would, say, a history of a Khmer boyfriend NOT imply the same thing?
for me its just personal preference, i often find girls that have had Barang BF's before irritating, often picking up habits/traits from their Barang ex
yeah more often than not
im not sure how to word the answer to your last question, but for me personally see my answer above
Anyways, it's worth mentioning that the expression sounds a bit pejorative, but it really isn't (or shouldn't be). I've dated and slept with lots of grey girls and I don't mind them too much (except those weird American accents). To be honest, by now almost all of my female friends would fall into the grey girl category. That includes girls of all walks of life, from restaurant workers to chicks who make just under $2k/month.
To answer questions 2 and 3: I personally haven't met a Khmer girl who's dated foreigners and has gone back to Khmers. I think it's for two reasons: she knows most Khmers wouldn't want her, but she's also had a taste of the "freedom" being with a foreigner means, and enjoys it. Having a boyfriend (especially Khmer) doesn't mean they're sexually active at all. Originally, having a boyfriend or girlfriend meant you were close to being engaged. Many are sexually active now, but exact numebrs are impossible to come by.
I think it goes without saying. Any girl who isn't a virgin anymore and was/is sexually active (and single) is a grey girl.Lucky Lucan wrote:It could be used to describe a divorcee or widow too.
For the record, a while ago I was at a beer garden with a bunch of Khmer dudes (all sort of youngish mid 20s to mid 30s middle-class types) and when the topic about virginity came up, more than half of them said they didn't care about her past. Times are changing very quickly, and though it's still difficult for a girl who is known to have been sexually active (had a boyfriend, fiancée) to get a husband, especially in the countryside, it's still possible. A lot of guys aren't as hung up over it as they used to be, mainly because a lot more of the younger generation have girlfriends/boyfriends (and are sexually active together) than before.
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Yeah good points. I'd go for a "gray" girl rather than a white one any day, same if I was back in the west. Those with traditional values prize virgins, at this stage I couldn't think of anything worse, inexperienced and awkward trysts tend not to be much fun.
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