That magic degree for esl job
Where's the edit button? The last sentence is grinding me because of the word "presume" twice in it after editing the second half.
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Why do you say "presume" twice in that last sentence? You couldn't think of a synonym or something? It displays a shockingly bad grasp of the English language. What little respect I had for you is now completely gone.claptrap1 wrote:I did indeed go to university in England, majoring in animal psychology (which might have had some use in classroom) but I had to give it up after the first year because of financial difficulties. (And my family needed me at home 7.5 hours drive away with a decent car - I had to wait for the breakdown service at least three times on every journey - but with my ancient van 12 hours on average.) The first year was of course a child's play, it being the year of soft landing for university style study; they main point was to get used to having several assignments to complete each month - one was given the first day , with everyone doing the same simple field research - and the academic style of referencing. (The assignments were about the level I can expect here from local English bachelor degree students: I've read two such final assignments.) The debates became slanging matches, which incidentally resembled much of those government debates on television: I presume all of the parliament members have high degrees from a variety of universities, so I presume debating is not something you learn at least in English universities, despite it being a subject.Alex wrote:So you went to university in England, but you don't have a degree?claptrap1 wrote:It's true I am not a native speaker but by golly, how many native speakers I helped with their assignments while I was in university in England - at least there good correct spelling doesn't seem to be an entry requirement any more, nor is being able to debate without resorting to slanging match...
If you don't mind the rather personal question, did something go wrong there, or weren't you a student "while [you were] in university in England"?
I did notice it but before I had a chance to correct it. I had a class to teach so rather than wait for the technician to get us back online, I left it at that.
I presume you are not a teacher because your judgement is based on such an obvious mistake as that. At least I can tell which student has simply made a careless error and which student really doesn't know how to spell the word.
Every reasonable person knows that even a native speaker makes typos, especially in their writing when they are watching the clock, talking to the children who come to the office because they miss you, while the your boss is looking at you disapprovingly because you're visiting irrelevant website. The bloody mouse pointer also keeps jumping all over the place middle of the typing (only since I had to use a different disk to re-install Windows.) I'm not saying that I could type so well or fast int he first place, so I have usually many typos in my text.
I presume you are not a teacher because your judgement is based on such an obvious mistake as that. At least I can tell which student has simply made a careless error and which student really doesn't know how to spell the word.
Every reasonable person knows that even a native speaker makes typos, especially in their writing when they are watching the clock, talking to the children who come to the office because they miss you, while the your boss is looking at you disapprovingly because you're visiting irrelevant website. The bloody mouse pointer also keeps jumping all over the place middle of the typing (only since I had to use a different disk to re-install Windows.) I'm not saying that I could type so well or fast int he first place, so I have usually many typos in my text.
That's interesting, do you actually distinguish between these when grading a spelling quiz/test/exam? Genuine question! When I was a student, it didn't make any difference, a mistake was a mistake and the grand total of mistakes determined the grade. (Personally, I actually think that's right, because for the pained reader it doesn't make any difference if the error occurred because of sloppiness or lack of knowledge. But I might be missing something important here, not being a teacher.)claptrap1 wrote:At least I can tell which student has simply made a careless error and which student really doesn't know how to spell the word.
Distinguishing between a mistake and an error cannot be done by osmosis. Surely you'd have to elicit the correct answer from the learner in some way or another to be able to know if it was a 'slip' or a gap in their knowledge?
There are non-native English speaking teachers in Phnom Penh who hold decent EL jobs, but I think they'd have to be exceptionally good teachers to negate the fossilized errors that occasionally come to the fore, especially in the correct use of idiomatic expressions and the like. Do you fall into the 'exceptional' category or 'good' category of teacher in your opinion? If it's the latter then I suppose you'd really have to ask yourself a more far-reaching question about supply and demand. There are thousands of Cambodian teachers who are 'very good' and have degrees - what makes you think that you deserve a job in front of them? Could it be because you have whiter skin and a pointier nose?
There are non-native English speaking teachers in Phnom Penh who hold decent EL jobs, but I think they'd have to be exceptionally good teachers to negate the fossilized errors that occasionally come to the fore, especially in the correct use of idiomatic expressions and the like. Do you fall into the 'exceptional' category or 'good' category of teacher in your opinion? If it's the latter then I suppose you'd really have to ask yourself a more far-reaching question about supply and demand. There are thousands of Cambodian teachers who are 'very good' and have degrees - what makes you think that you deserve a job in front of them? Could it be because you have whiter skin and a pointier nose?
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They would both be mistakes, but sloppiness is easier to fix. Mistakes due to misunderstanding are important to note so that the teacher can re-teach the area material.Alex wrote:That's interesting, do you actually distinguish between these when grading a spelling quiz/test/exam? Genuine question! When I was a student, it didn't make any difference, a mistake was a mistake and the grand total of mistakes determined the grade. (Personally, I actually think that's right, because for the pained reader it doesn't make any difference if the error occurred because of sloppiness or lack of knowledge. But I might be missing something important here, not being a teacher.)claptrap1 wrote:At least I can tell which student has simply made a careless error and which student really doesn't know how to spell the word.
Personally, when I have students do a test, I'm more interested in what several people got wrong than what almost everyone got right. It means I didn't check for understanding thoroughly, but relatively easy to fix.
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
I'm not ignoring this thread, just a late reply for other reasons. Relies not in particular order.
I never said I'm better than my Cambodian colleagues, on the contrary I have much respect for many teacher's classroom skills and you are wrong about my nose: it's not pointier: I've got a ski jump nose. I am simply saying that having merely a degree does not make a good teacher by default, let alone when the degree is not even relevant. And the smaller the kids, the less relevant it becomes. Not saying that a degree is not a good thing to have otherwise...
The reason I can tell which one's are the student's typos and which ones are errors is because I read every bit of his homework so I already have plenty of samples and a pretty good idea if he knows the word before the testing - I'm hoping though that a student gives me a positive surprise.
The modern thinking is that you don't correct every mistake, because it is demoralising and not helpful: It is better to focus on persistent mistakes that indicate what the student has not grasped. Like vladimir explained, the exam is as much about informing the teacher what needs to be reviewed as it is to inform the student his weaknesses and to encourage study. The students must be aware about not correcting every mistake, lest they find one you didn't mark. Eliciting answers from students is part of my everyday lessons and there's nothing wrong to ask the student to explain what he meant by something he wrote in their assignment or writing test. As whether something is a typo or a not knowing how to spell it, have you tried to ask the student to spell the word for you verbally? Takes a couple of seconds of your class time. Spelling tests are obviously different matter, because the focus is specifically on, well, correct spelling...
The difference between "then" and "now" of learning a language (or anything really) is that the objective of exercises and testing is not to set the student up for failure but to encourage success and confidence.
I never said I'm better than my Cambodian colleagues, on the contrary I have much respect for many teacher's classroom skills and you are wrong about my nose: it's not pointier: I've got a ski jump nose. I am simply saying that having merely a degree does not make a good teacher by default, let alone when the degree is not even relevant. And the smaller the kids, the less relevant it becomes. Not saying that a degree is not a good thing to have otherwise...
The reason I can tell which one's are the student's typos and which ones are errors is because I read every bit of his homework so I already have plenty of samples and a pretty good idea if he knows the word before the testing - I'm hoping though that a student gives me a positive surprise.
The modern thinking is that you don't correct every mistake, because it is demoralising and not helpful: It is better to focus on persistent mistakes that indicate what the student has not grasped. Like vladimir explained, the exam is as much about informing the teacher what needs to be reviewed as it is to inform the student his weaknesses and to encourage study. The students must be aware about not correcting every mistake, lest they find one you didn't mark. Eliciting answers from students is part of my everyday lessons and there's nothing wrong to ask the student to explain what he meant by something he wrote in their assignment or writing test. As whether something is a typo or a not knowing how to spell it, have you tried to ask the student to spell the word for you verbally? Takes a couple of seconds of your class time. Spelling tests are obviously different matter, because the focus is specifically on, well, correct spelling...
The difference between "then" and "now" of learning a language (or anything really) is that the objective of exercises and testing is not to set the student up for failure but to encourage success and confidence.
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I find a very valuable tool in teaching is to ask myself how I would feel if I were the student being corrected.
I had a schmuck for a mathematics teacher and switched off because he liked to belittle and laugh at people when we got things wrong.
Personally, I know that if he had taken the time to sit down with me, I could have scored an A in maths instead of an E.
I had a schmuck for a mathematics teacher and switched off because he liked to belittle and laugh at people when we got things wrong.
Personally, I know that if he had taken the time to sit down with me, I could have scored an A in maths instead of an E.
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
I don't deny that I'm crap at maths. I was at the top of my class in primary school but then had a fresh maths graduate who was boring and pretty dire at teaching. I was doing well and having a good laugh with my best friend for the first year but after she dropped out of the top tier, I decided to take maths seriously - and I never managed to catch up after that. I really wanted to learn maths but at high school the teacher told that giving me support lessons would be a waster of time, especially as I was doing the "language stream" (a typical fare of 4 foreign languages, media, various "ologies", music and exta sports) I think he was wrong but nevertheless I get a panic attac if I have to calculate something that needs more than primary school maths.
I guess I became a teacher because of all the let-downs of my own education. At least that was my reason when I was a kid, so maybe it was a good thing that I took my time to mellow a bit before I actually realised my ambition of taking my fruestrations out of the kids today.
I guess I became a teacher because of all the let-downs of my own education. At least that was my reason when I was a kid, so maybe it was a good thing that I took my time to mellow a bit before I actually realised my ambition of taking my fruestrations out of the kids today.
In Cambodia at least. The education standard is so poor that having a university degree is the only proof of being able to read and write and to have some knowledge above the student. Possibly.
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