Work permit fine ?
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Work permit fine ?
Good morning everyone,
I searched some posts about the work permit in the forum and I didn't find an answer at my question so maybe I can ask for some advice ?
I found a first job in Cambodia two months ago. So my company did the paper work for the work permit, contract starting November 2012.
The document came back: I'm fined for not having a work permit from 2009 till 2012, 4 years fine.
I never worked in Cambodia till now (never had to), so my first surprise was to be fined for not having a work permit (I could never ask for one as I was not working).
But it get's weird.
I am fined 85$ a year for 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012, as my passport shows a first Cambodian visa in 2009.
I wasn't in the country in 2010. Actually I just have a 30 days entry business visa in 2009, left the country in July 2009 and came back a second time half 2011.
One month under a business visa in 2009 and I'm fined for not having a work permit.
ZERO days and ZERO visa in Cambodia in 2010 and I'm fined for not having a work permit for that year too ...
It's enough crazy to be fined for not having a work permit when you actually don't work, but fined even when you aren't in the country ?
Does someone have any kind of information about the working permit fine for past years ?
I searched some posts about the work permit in the forum and I didn't find an answer at my question so maybe I can ask for some advice ?
I found a first job in Cambodia two months ago. So my company did the paper work for the work permit, contract starting November 2012.
The document came back: I'm fined for not having a work permit from 2009 till 2012, 4 years fine.
I never worked in Cambodia till now (never had to), so my first surprise was to be fined for not having a work permit (I could never ask for one as I was not working).
But it get's weird.
I am fined 85$ a year for 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012, as my passport shows a first Cambodian visa in 2009.
I wasn't in the country in 2010. Actually I just have a 30 days entry business visa in 2009, left the country in July 2009 and came back a second time half 2011.
One month under a business visa in 2009 and I'm fined for not having a work permit.
ZERO days and ZERO visa in Cambodia in 2010 and I'm fined for not having a work permit for that year too ...
It's enough crazy to be fined for not having a work permit when you actually don't work, but fined even when you aren't in the country ?
Does someone have any kind of information about the working permit fine for past years ?
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- Making Khmer girls cry since 2003
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Out of curiosity, who fined you, did you pay it, and whom did you pay?
Follow my lame Twitter feed: @gavin_mac
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I didn't pay yet. I was informed this week I was fined 4 years (Fine from 2009 until 2012: 85x4 years = 340$) by the Ministry of Labor and Vocational office.
The Khmer HR of my company is doing the legal paperwork, I just gave him my passport and 7 photos.
I told our Khmer human resource manager to go back to the Ministry of Labor and show them I left Cambodia in 2009 to come back 18 months later in 2011, so I can't be fined for 2010 as I wasn't in the country.
Didn't work, I'm still fined for not having a work permit for 2010 in a country I don't neither work or live in 2010.
My Khmer guy is going back this morning, he send me this email:
[I] "I will go to MLVT first and inquire them on hiring foreign labor based on labor law and Prakas No 161, 162 , if they can provide us." [/I]
Let's see what the Prakas says
The Khmer HR of my company is doing the legal paperwork, I just gave him my passport and 7 photos.
I told our Khmer human resource manager to go back to the Ministry of Labor and show them I left Cambodia in 2009 to come back 18 months later in 2011, so I can't be fined for 2010 as I wasn't in the country.
Didn't work, I'm still fined for not having a work permit for 2010 in a country I don't neither work or live in 2010.
My Khmer guy is going back this morning, he send me this email:
[I] "I will go to MLVT first and inquire them on hiring foreign labor based on labor law and Prakas No 161, 162 , if they can provide us." [/I]
Let's see what the Prakas says
Thank you. This just confirms what I've been telling people can/will happen to them when they eventually need to get an official work permit.OSS 117 wrote:Good morning everyone,
I searched some posts about the work permit in the forum and I didn't find an answer at my question so maybe I can ask for some advice ?
I found a first job in Cambodia two months ago. So my company did the paper work for the work permit, contract starting November 2012.
The document came back: I'm fined for not having a work permit from 2009 till 2012, 4 years fine.
I never worked in Cambodia till now (never had to), so my first surprise was to be fined for not having a work permit (I could never ask for one as I was not working).
But it get's weird.
I am fined 85$ a year for 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012, as my passport shows a first Cambodian visa in 2009.
I wasn't in the country in 2010. Actually I just have a 30 days entry business visa in 2009, left the country in July 2009 and came back a second time half 2011.
One month under a business visa in 2009 and I'm fined for not having a work permit.
ZERO days and ZERO visa in Cambodia in 2010 and I'm fined for not having a work permit for that year too ...
It's enough crazy to be fined for not having a work permit when you actually don't work, but fined even when you aren't in the country ?
Does someone have any kind of information about the working permit fine for past years ?
Basically, they "back-bill" you from your first BUSINESS VISA you've ever had here.
$85 a year is the LOWEST I've ever heard of. Good job!
- Uncle Monty
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Are they fining your employers for employing you without a work permit, and they are just passing the fine onto you?
Dictated to a slave and sent by carrier pigeon.
They did this to me as well although not in such an unreasonable way.
I got back billed for one year for volunteer work. When I told the guy I got no salary as I was teaching for an NGO as a volunteer, he tried to snap me for not having an NGO visa, when I stone walled him on that, he tried to get me for having an out of date visa.....when I turned the page and showed him my latest visa he ran out of ideas and I didn't see him for a year.
The next year he saw me on the street and turned up at work the next day. Tried the same thing on. In the end he dropped the year of volunteer work, and took payment for only my paid work. However 1 month at the end of the year equates to a full year charge. Apparently I will need to continue payment for my work book, even when I become self employed. That means I will be signing my own work book as my own employer.
The business also needs to pay a $50 per year foreign worker quota fee.
The biggest problem for me is that when some civil servant turns up in a cheap suit, looking like a shady dog sniffing around a trash heap for goodies, and stabbing his finger left right and centre at any chink in my paperwork that he thinks he can get money from, chortling when he thinks he has found something to get me on, I tend to get a little abrasive and uncooperative. I need to remember that despite the guys personal agenda, he does have a government function to fulfill, and my long term life here will be easier if I don't make enemies of the local bureaucracy. I draw the line at taking them out for a night at karaoke though.
I agree $85 is lower than we paid. Sounds like they know they are being dodgy by trying to pick up the payments from previous unworked years, and are attempting to sweeten the deal by offering a discount.
I got back billed for one year for volunteer work. When I told the guy I got no salary as I was teaching for an NGO as a volunteer, he tried to snap me for not having an NGO visa, when I stone walled him on that, he tried to get me for having an out of date visa.....when I turned the page and showed him my latest visa he ran out of ideas and I didn't see him for a year.
The next year he saw me on the street and turned up at work the next day. Tried the same thing on. In the end he dropped the year of volunteer work, and took payment for only my paid work. However 1 month at the end of the year equates to a full year charge. Apparently I will need to continue payment for my work book, even when I become self employed. That means I will be signing my own work book as my own employer.
The business also needs to pay a $50 per year foreign worker quota fee.
The biggest problem for me is that when some civil servant turns up in a cheap suit, looking like a shady dog sniffing around a trash heap for goodies, and stabbing his finger left right and centre at any chink in my paperwork that he thinks he can get money from, chortling when he thinks he has found something to get me on, I tend to get a little abrasive and uncooperative. I need to remember that despite the guys personal agenda, he does have a government function to fulfill, and my long term life here will be easier if I don't make enemies of the local bureaucracy. I draw the line at taking them out for a night at karaoke though.
I agree $85 is lower than we paid. Sounds like they know they are being dodgy by trying to pick up the payments from previous unworked years, and are attempting to sweeten the deal by offering a discount.
Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men.
Yeah, I've always heard of at least a couple hundred a year.MoodyMac wrote:
I agree $85 is lower than we paid. Sounds like they know they are being dodgy by trying to pick up the payments from previous unworked years, and are attempting to sweeten the deal by offering a discount.
I think many English teachers will be in for a rude awakening at some point.
- vladimir
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I think a lot of people engaging in any other businesses will also, bar-owners, advertising agency employees, photographers, consultants, dentists, doctors, basically any barang working here and making money.cambod wrote:I think many English teachers will be in for a rude awakening at some point.
What is deja vu in Thai?
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
- Uncle Monty
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I heard a quote of $100 a year in 2008, I didn't really care as I'd left the country and came back with a new passport. Nothing ever came of it.cambod wrote:Yeah, I've always heard of at least a couple hundred a year.MoodyMac wrote:
I agree $85 is lower than we paid. Sounds like they know they are being dodgy by trying to pick up the payments from previous unworked years, and are attempting to sweeten the deal by offering a discount.
I think many English teachers will be in for a rude awakening at some point.
Dictated to a slave and sent by carrier pigeon.
- vladimir
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Certain people could try the following angle:
Yes, I was employed as an English teacher, but I didn't actually do any WORK. I was in the same room as the kids, but I slept /drank beer/ connected to Facebook all the time.
No work, no pay.
Yes, I was employed as an English teacher, but I didn't actually do any WORK. I was in the same room as the kids, but I slept /drank beer/ connected to Facebook all the time.
No work, no pay.
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
Shit $200 a year is higher than we pay. I love consistency. That's why I like it here so much.cambod wrote:Yeah, I've always heard of at least a couple hundred a year.MoodyMac wrote:
I agree $85 is lower than we paid. Sounds like they know they are being dodgy by trying to pick up the payments from previous unworked years, and are attempting to sweeten the deal by offering a discount.
I think many English teachers will be in for a rude awakening at some point.
I think the correct rate for the book is $100 per year. You are supposed to get a medical examination done as well, but they didn't make me do that.
I would suggest that teachers or other foreigners working here get their employers to cover the costs of the work book. Or at least make sure that your salary package will cover the extra costs. The foreign employee quota fee with out question should be paid by the employer, but the slow hand of justice will fall on the employee in regards to no possession of a foreigners work book.
One of the things that pisses me off is some official handing me a photocopied sheet with Khmer writing on it, one word somewhere in brackets translated into English, that apparently should magically make me understand the entire contents of the page, and a red stamp at the bottom to make it official.
I play a game with them and put my own little red stamp next to my signature.
Actually, I annoyed the employment official last time. I told him I can't sign something I can't read. He left the papers with me and insisted that I sign. Given that I am illiterate in Khmer I decided to use my thumb print instead. The guy turned up the next day while I was painting outside, and I gave him the big thumbs up and said "Hai Hai!" He smiled, and walked inside to get the papers from the reservation office.
He wasn't smiling when he came out. Fortunately he is able to speak enough English to say "You sign tomorrow". Apparently I stuffed up the form, because he couldn't put his little red stamp on top of my red thumb print.
I smiled nicely, "Baht baht, tangyai sa ayt, min aye te. Sok sobay!"
I say, make them work for their money.
Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men.
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This is what my company is asked to pay for my work permit (starting 1st November 2012):
- Fine from 2009 until 2012: 85x4 years = 340usd
- Obligation Tax for 2013 = 100usd
- Formality & Contract (valid for 2years) = 15usd
- Health examination without going to have health check up = 50usd
My company will pay for the work permit and the 2012 fine, but they don't want to be hold responsible for 2009, 2010 and 2011 so I would have to pay for that.
I can understand being fined for 2011 (even if it's not fair, I didn't work a single day in 2011, not even volunteer), but being fined for a year I wasn't in the country, that's hard to accept.
- Fine from 2009 until 2012: 85x4 years = 340usd
- Obligation Tax for 2013 = 100usd
- Formality & Contract (valid for 2years) = 15usd
- Health examination without going to have health check up = 50usd
My company will pay for the work permit and the 2012 fine, but they don't want to be hold responsible for 2009, 2010 and 2011 so I would have to pay for that.
I can understand being fined for 2011 (even if it's not fair, I didn't work a single day in 2011, not even volunteer), but being fined for a year I wasn't in the country, that's hard to accept.
Yeah, its rough, no question about it. Hopefully you will find an official with some uncommon sense to sort it out.
Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men.
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