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Bringing non-related Cambodian Child To Vietnam

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Bringing non-related Cambodian Child To Vietnam

Postby Tacotuesday » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:50 pm

Wondering if anyone has any information this.

When I was with my ex her 5 year old niece from the province moved in with us. A year later we broke up and and after a series of events her niece ended up living with me. Its been that way for about a year now. She has been going to a small international school here in pp and has gone from speaking no English at all to being almost fluent and wanting to eat burgers and pizza every night. I have her parents and all of her relatives permission and i have been raising her for the past two years, but i have no legal guardianship of her.

I got a job offer in Vietnam that includes free housing and free tuition for her. I have already talked to her and the parents about it and everyone wants her to go as it is a really good school and her only other option is to go back to the province farming rice with no electricity.

Does anyone have any information on if or how this can be done? I know she can get a one year visa for 135 but I don't know about the procedure for leaving the country without her parents. I am planning to adopt her but am still trying to figure out all the paper work. I've searched online for information but have not been able to find anything.

I realize these laws/restrictions are put into place to protect kids from human trafficking and my new job has said they will do everything they can to help with the process such as write a letter and work with the Viet immigration police but I do not have any information about the Cambodian side.

Thanks in Advance
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Re: Bringing non-related Cambodian Child To Vietnam

Postby monomial » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:48 am

I am confused. Why don't you just ask her mother to come with you to deal with the border crossing and visa issues?

There is no way you are going to get the child out without her mother's involvement, so rather than deal with the headaches of getting an international permission to travel form (which usually requires the child's birth certificate and letter with certified signatures of both parents and likely an MoFA stamp) just ask her mother to come along. She can go back to Cambodia once everything is sorted.

Worst case you have to buy her mother a passport. Still going to be cheaper I would think than the alternative. Your going to have issues with medical treatment in Vietnam as well if you are not her legal guardian, so you'll need a solution for that. Don't know specifically about Vietnam, but in Thailand, that means a letter from the parents giving you medical power of attorney, translated into English, certified in Phnom Penh, then certified by the Cambodian Embassy in Bangkok, then translated in Thai and certified by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Only with that can an unrelated person authorize medical treatment in the event of injury. Again, would be much easier to simply call her mother and have her come if the child had a serious problem.

One other thing you need to consider is that international adoptions are much more difficult if you are already living with the child before the adoption is finalized. It is a gateway to human trafficking thing that the international adoption agencies really don't like. You are breaking the rules and are going to make things more difficult on yourself, even if you can somehow qualify to adopt the child. Suggest if you are planning on an adoption you consult with an experienced adoption agency right away.
Last edited by monomial on Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bringing non-related Cambodian Child To Vietnam

Postby gavinmac » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:51 am

monomial wrote:I am confused. Why don't you just ask her mother to come with you to deal with the border crossing and visa issues?


The fact that he is raising his ex-girlfriend's niece strongly suggests his ex-girlfriend and the mother are completely unreliable spazoids, and the mother is more or less a zombie who is not readily available to go to Vietnam for this.

If the mother had an ounce of responsibility, this random dude who was dating her sister (or the father's sister) wouldn't be raising this little girl.
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Re: Bringing non-related Cambodian Child To Vietnam

Postby monomial » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:00 am

gavinmac wrote:
monomial wrote:I am confused. Why don't you just ask her mother to come with you to deal with the border crossing and visa issues?


The fact that he is raising his ex-girlfriend's niece strongly suggests his ex-girlfriend and the mother are completely unreliable spazoids, and the mother is more or less a zombie who is not readily available to go to Vietnam for this.

If the mother had an ounce of responsibility, this random dude who was dating her sister (or the father's sister) wouldn't be raising this little girl.


Be that as it may, she is the child's legal guardian and if she is not involved in the process that child doesn't legally leave the country. However unreliable she may be, it is still the best option. Compensate her if you have to.
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Re: Bringing non-related Cambodian Child To Vietnam

Postby gavinmac » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:05 am

monomial wrote:Be that as it may, she is the child's legal guardian and if she is not involved in the process that child doesn't legally leave the country. However unreliable she may be, it is still the best option. Compensate her if you have to.


She could be dead too, in which case I will feel bad about calling her a zombie.

What if he could track down the drunken father and have someone drag him to the nearest border post? Would that work?
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Re: Bringing non-related Cambodian Child To Vietnam

Postby logos » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:12 am

This is Cambodia, not the US or Europe. Will they even care who she travels with?
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Re: Bringing non-related Cambodian Child To Vietnam

Postby Tacotuesday » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:52 am

gavinmac wrote:
monomial wrote:I am confused. Why don't you just ask her mother to come with you to deal with the border crossing and visa issues?


The fact that he is raising his ex-girlfriend's niece strongly suggests his ex-girlfriend and the mother are completely unreliable spazoids, and the mother is more or less a zombie who is not readily available to go to Vietnam for this.

If the mother had an ounce of responsibility, this random dude who was dating her sister (or the father's sister) wouldn't be raising this little girl.


I am actually on speaking terms with both of them, though the ex far less frequent. I talk to her parents every day, they aren't bad people just very poor and not well educated. the girl is technically not my exes niece, it's her cousins kids, but they use the term niece, so that's what I use. they live right next door etc. I still speak with my exes mom too, everyone is on good terms. But we realize that we are much better separated.

The mother is not a zombie and actually has a decent amount of responsibility, though she is a pretty mean person and i hate being around her voice is so grating, the dad is great and I speak with him every day. She sees them two times per month, them visiting us in PP at least once a month. They are really nice and they want their kid to get a good education but they realize that they are poor and they have known me for the past 3 years, as do all the workers at my job, my niece's school and everyone in the neighborhood.

though my situation is really difficult I'm glad it's not the scenario you described above, because I could see how they would be very likely.
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Re: Bringing non-related Cambodian Child To Vietnam

Postby Tacotuesday » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:56 am

monomial wrote:I am confused. Why don't you just ask her mother to come with you to deal with the border crossing and visa issues?

There is no way you are going to get the child out without her mother's involvement, so rather than deal with the headaches of getting an international permission to travel form (which usually requires the child's birth certificate and letter with certified signatures of both parents and likely an MoFA stamp) just ask her mother to come along. She can go back to Cambodia once everything is sorted.

Worst case you have to buy her mother a passport. Still going to be cheaper I would think than the alternative. Your going to have issues with medical treatment in Vietnam as well if you are not her legal guardian, so you'll need a solution for that. Don't know specifically about Vietnam, but in Thailand, that means a letter from the parents giving you medical power of attorney, translated into English, certified in Phnom Penh, then certified by the Cambodian Embassy in Bangkok, then translated in Thai and certified by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Only with that can an unrelated person authorize medical treatment in the event of injury. Again, would be much easier to simply call her mother and have her come if the child had a serious problem.

One other thing you need to consider is that international adoptions are much more difficult if you are already living with the child before the adoption is finalized. It is a gateway to human trafficking thing that the international adoption agencies really don't like. You are breaking the rules and are going to make things more difficult on yourself, even if you can somehow qualify to adopt the child. Suggest if you are planning on an adoption you consult with an experienced adoption agency right away.


Thanks for the good advice. Yeah, having the mother come with us fine. I am just concerned about what the process would be once the mother leaves and the child stays.

Thanks for the tips about the adoption as well. I didn't want to get into it too much but I won't technically be adopting her. My fiancee who is Khmer will and then once we are married I hope to assume some sort of legal guardianship that way. My fiancee will also be coming to Vietnam with me but as she is not formally related to the child I just want to be able to get all the information.

Really do thank you for the advice.
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Re: Bringing non-related Cambodian Child To Vietnam

Postby gavinmac » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:00 pm

Tacotuesday wrote:The mother is not a zombie and actually has a decent amount of responsibility, though she is a pretty mean person and i hate being around her voice is so grating, the dad is great and I speak with him every day. She sees them two times per month, them visiting us in PP at least once a month. They are really nice and they want their kid to get a good education but they realize that they are poor and they have known me for the past 3 years, as do all the workers at my job, my niece's school and everyone in the neighborhood.


Well, this is a sweet deal for the parents. They avoid all the cost and inconvenience of raising the child but still get to see her regularly.

Your situation is not that difficult. Hand the kid back to her parents and say "I'm happy to pay for her schooling, send me the bill."


Note: it has been suggested on this website that I have no empathy
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Re: Bringing non-related Cambodian Child To Vietnam

Postby Tacotuesday » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:08 pm

gavinmac wrote:
Tacotuesday wrote:The mother is not a zombie and actually has a decent amount of responsibility, though she is a pretty mean person and i hate being around her voice is so grating, the dad is great and I speak with him every day. She sees them two times per month, them visiting us in PP at least once a month. They are really nice and they want their kid to get a good education but they realize that they are poor and they have known me for the past 3 years, as do all the workers at my job, my niece's school and everyone in the neighborhood.


Well, this is a sweet deal for the parents. They avoid all the cost and inconvenience of raising the child but still get to see her regularly.

Your situation is not that difficult. Hand the kid back to her parents and say "I'm happy to pay for her schooling, send me the bill."


Note: it has been suggested on this website that I have no empathy



Already thought about that. They live in the province, if they lived in PP i'd need to rent them a house, and TRUST them to take her to school. Like I said they are nice but put bluntly, they are FUCKING DUMB! She would have to take care of her parents more then her parents take care of her.

Examples- they gave her coffee from the age of 2 years old, they feed infants coca cola, her mom asks me to complain to the school that she doesn't know enough english songs because her mom is tired of hearing her sing the same songs (she is in grade 1 now, so she is reading, writing, doing math, etc.)

so yeah man...they are dumb.

The plus is that when I go out to eat I always get to order 2 things without feeling guilty, one for me and one for her, she cant never eat more than half so I get to stuff my face without looking like a fatass sitting alone eating 2 entrees. It's the little things.
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Re: Bringing non-related Cambodian Child To Vietnam

Postby Tacotuesday » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:11 pm

gavinmac wrote:
Tacotuesday wrote:The mother is not a zombie and actually has a decent amount of responsibility, though she is a pretty mean person and i hate being around her voice is so grating, the dad is great and I speak with him every day. She sees them two times per month, them visiting us in PP at least once a month. They are really nice and they want their kid to get a good education but they realize that they are poor and they have known me for the past 3 years, as do all the workers at my job, my niece's school and everyone in the neighborhood.


Well, this is a sweet deal for the parents. They avoid all the cost and inconvenience of raising the child but still get to see her regularly.

Your situation is not that difficult. Hand the kid back to her parents and say "I'm happy to pay for her schooling, send me the bill."


Note: it has been suggested on this website that I have no empathy



Also trust the parents or the family to accurately report the the proper bills? Like I said they are nice people, but they are still Khmer, I'm a sucker to a certain degree but I'm not giving a khmer family a blank check. The relatives would just spend all the money on gambling and angkor, with the best intentions of course.
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Bringing non-related Cambodian Child To Vietnam

Postby ផោមក្លិនស្អុយ » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:20 pm

gavinmac wrote:
Tacotuesday wrote:The mother is not a zombie and actually has a decent amount of responsibility, though she is a pretty mean person and i hate being around her voice is so grating, the dad is great and I speak with him every day. She sees them two times per month, them visiting us in PP at least once a month. They are really nice and they want their kid to get a good education but they realize that they are poor and they have known me for the past 3 years, as do all the workers at my job, my niece's school and everyone in the neighborhood.


Well, this is a sweet deal for the parents. They avoid all the cost and inconvenience of raising the child but still get to see her regularly.

Your situation is not that difficult. Hand the kid back to her parents and say "I'm happy to pay for her schooling, send me the bill."


Note: it has been suggested on this website that I have no empathy

Gav puts the pathetic into empathetic.

But he’s right on the money here.
OP, you have created for yourself a
similar situation to the many orphanages in Cambodia. You are raising a hybrid child, one who won’t understand Khmer culture (is she learning to read/write Khmer or just English). The child will grow up to be one of those weird ‘foreign khmers’ I.e. she looks Khmer but doesn’t act it, is culturally foreign & can’t interact with Khmer people normally.
Parents have got a great deal.
You can’t adopt her, she isn’t an orphan - she has living parents & relatives here. If you take her across an international border you could be charged with trafficking.
International adoption for a Khmer child is nigh on impossible in a normal situation. Yours is far from normal.

You need to protect yourself too. What if you are called back to your home country urgently - you can’t take the child with you. It’ll (possibly) break your heart to leave her.
You should do as Gav suggests. Pay for education and take a step back.
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Re: Bringing non-related Cambodian Child To Vietnam

Postby gavinmac » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:28 pm

Oh, disregard what I recommended. That was before I read his musings below on the benefits of going out with a seven year-old.

Tacotuesday wrote:The plus is that when I go out to eat I always get to order 2 things without feeling guilty, one for me and one for her, she cant never eat more than half so I get to stuff my face without looking like a fatass sitting alone eating 2 entrees. It's the little things.
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Re: Bringing non-related Cambodian Child To Vietnam

Postby kinard » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:01 pm

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Re: Bringing non-related Cambodian Child To Vietnam

Postby Tacotuesday » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:09 pm

gavinmac wrote:Oh, disregard what I recommended. That was before I read his musings below on the benefits of going out with a seven year-old.

Tacotuesday wrote:The plus is that when I go out to eat I always get to order 2 things without feeling guilty, one for me and one for her, she cant never eat more than half so I get to stuff my face without looking like a fatass sitting alone eating 2 entrees. It's the little things.


Just trying to bring a little light heartedness to the conversation.
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