Terrorist Attack in Bangkok, Iranian Involved
- kinglear#1
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I'd bleeding worry if Japan had THE BOMB. Remember what they did during WWII? How things change. I wouldn't forget "The Knights of Bushido" or The Rape of Nanjing. What, I beg to ask, is "a Failed State"?
Pakistan represents itself. As do most other States, countries, Principalities or whatever you want to call them.
Pakistan represents itself. As do most other States, countries, Principalities or whatever you want to call them.
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- connecticuter
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I would not worry about Japan getting a nuke. I have had discussions with Japanese people on this very matter. Many held that nukes are immoral and ought not to be used. Many also stated that they feared the mere presence of such weapons. As far as I can tell, the Japanese's experience of the horrors of atomic warfare make them the nation most likely to be responsible in having them.kinglear#1 wrote:I'd bleeding worry if Japan had THE BOMB. Remember what they did during WWII? How things change. I wouldn't forget "The Knights of Bushido" or The Rape of Nanjing. What, I beg to ask, is "a Failed State"?
Pakistan represents itself. As do most other States, countries, Principalities or whatever you want to call them.
Pakistan is a failed state. The rule of law does not cover large segments of their population. Their intelligence agencies (e.g., the ISI) are not controlled by civillian leadership, and they promote global terror: see their actions in Afghanistan and India, for example. Likewise, the Pakistani Army is not controlled by the civillian leadership. Any attempt to claim that Pakistan has sound democratic institutions is laughable. Without US economic support, Pakistan would finally implode. Now that they have the bomb, they have a much stronger position vis a vis other nations. They can promote terror, undermine regional stability, and engage in extremely provocative behavior with their peaceful neighbors, such as India. Were it the case that they did not have a bomb, they would not have the capacity to continue such behavior.
If Iran did get nuclear weapons capability, then their status in the region would mirror that of Pakistan. Iran would be able to engage in state sponsored terrorism with impunity, bully/undermine their neighbors. Further, it would make any regime change (either due to internal or external pressure) far more dangerous. Seeing that Iran is an existential threat to Israel, it is in Israel's interest (and our's for that matter) to forestall Iran's nuclear ambitions.
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- kinglear#1
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Round them, put ' em in a field ...and BOMB the bastards! Is that what you're saying? I agree that they are not to be trusted. God, you do pontificate...
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- connecticuter
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I am saying that if Iran gets nuclear weapons capability the proverbial shit will hit the fan: both regionally and globally. I do not advocate war with Iran. I also think that sanctions will not work in time to exclude Iran from entering the zone of immunity (the point at which Iran can continue its nuclear program such that no external attack will stop it).kinglear#1 wrote:Round them, put ' em in a field ...and BOMB the bastards! Is that what you're saying? I agree that they are not to be trusted. God, you do pontificate...
Thus, the only option left is to have Israel continue to use covert ops, assassination, and espionage until it is ready to make a single bold strike to neutralize the Iranian threat. Once this occurs, Israel, the region and the world will be better off.
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- kinglear#1
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Israel has been doing covert stuff for as long as I (or Abraham) can remember - I wouldn't trust them, just as much as I wouldn't trust Iran. Robert Maxwell's death might interest you. And, for that matter, why are Israel's people so despised in SE Asia? They are not exactly the most popular people here, are they? I wonder why.
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- kinglear#1
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I also wonder why Shakespeare, Dickens and others depicted the children of Israel in such a bad light. Of course, that's just fiction, isn't it?
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- kinglear#1
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But, I just think, don't analyse...
don't ask questions...
just wonder...
what...
might be going on...
But, I don't want Iran to go all nuclear!
don't ask questions...
just wonder...
what...
might be going on...
But, I don't want Iran to go all nuclear!
O, let me not be mad, not mad, sweet heaven
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I can think of a couple of countries that would not agree with you that Israel is reasonable. I don't think many of there actions are reasonable or accountable for that matter.connecticuter wrote:India, Israel, France, the UK, etc... are reasonable and democratic countries. I have no problem with nuclear proliferation in general (who would be worried by the Japanese getting a bomb?). Pakistan is a failed state whose ISI promotes global terrorism. While I do not think that Iran would immediately use a nuke, I do think that Pakistan is a good example of how the status quo would change if they did get one. Iran is an undemocratic nation ruled by irrational leaders. Worse, they promote global terrorism: e.g., Hamas and Hezbollah.angsta wrote:Why hopefully? Whats it got to do with Israel if Iran has a nuclear program, Israel have one. So do Pakistan, India.connecticuter wrote:Hopefully, the Isaelis will strike the Iranian nuclear program soon.
Whether you like it or not, the IDF and the Mossad make the world a safer place.
Do they, you think? A bunch of assassins make the world a safer place? Not my world.
Assassination, covert ops, and espionage (when used properly) can and does make the world safer. Far better to whack a Hezbollah leader or an Al Qaeda operative than to invade a country or ignore their terrorism. Consider Syria, would you not smile if you woke up tomorrow to discover that Assad and his cohorts had been whacked? Or would you rather: a, let the people continue to be slaughtered, or b, have one or more nations initiate war with Syria?
thank goodness for the Mossad
Iran used to be OK until some idiots helped over throw the leader because he wouldn't play ball with the Americans. Not quite as safe anymore, you see what i'm saying?
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This from an Amerikkkan. Gotta love these guys. They don't get irony, apparently.Iran would be able to engage in state sponsored terrorism with impunity, bully/undermine their neighbors. Further, it would make any regime change (either due to internal or external pressure) far more dangerous.
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- connecticuter
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There is a difference between using espionage, covert ops, and assassination to thwart an imminent threat, or to neutralize an enemy state's abililty to engage in NBC warfare (or state sponsored terrorism), and engaging in regime change to make a state more pliant to your interests.
As I said before, at minimum, the US should have ceased supporting tyrants in the middle east after the cold war. It should have given support to the nascent democratic movements that existed in the early post cold war era. Unfortunately, decades of muddled policy regarding the middle east leaves us with few options, as distasteful as they are.
As I said before, at minimum, the US should have ceased supporting tyrants in the middle east after the cold war. It should have given support to the nascent democratic movements that existed in the early post cold war era. Unfortunately, decades of muddled policy regarding the middle east leaves us with few options, as distasteful as they are.
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Always easy to tell others to go to war, while not contributing in any way. Have you served in ANY military for even one day of your life?connecticuter wrote:Hopefully, the Isaelis will strike the Iranian nuclear program soon.
- connecticuter
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I am not telling anyone to go to war. What I am saying is that the balance of power within the region requires it, as well as Tehran's irrational policy towards Israel demands that Israel neutralize the the Iranian threat. Further, Israel need not engage in a full scale war. Rather, a brief set of precision attacks within a narrow window (perhaps coupled with further espionage, covert ops and assassination) is all that is required. If they wait for sanctions to work, the window shall close and the world will have to live with an irrational, aggressive, and opppressive Iranian regime, which would mirror Pakistan.Alex wrote:Always easy to tell others to go to war, while not contributing in any way. Have you served in ANY military for even one day of your life?connecticuter wrote:Hopefully, the Isaelis will strike the Iranian nuclear program soon.
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Damn, it seems I am the only one here that is pro-Israel.
Last edited by connecticuter on Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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andyinasia wrote:Iran would be able to engage in state sponsored terrorism with impunity, bully/undermine their neighbors. Further, it would make any regime change (either due to internal or external pressure) far more dangerous.
This from an Amerikkkan. Gotta love these guys. They don't get irony, apparently.
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