Terrorist Attack in Bangkok, Iranian Involved
- vladimir
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connie is right-wing.
He has the choice and the right to choose that path.
I think I - or any person - have/has the right to ask him if he fully understands his choice, and to question if he applies the same principles to Israelis as he does to Palestinians.
It seems 'messy' covers a lot of human rights abuses which are frighteningly similar to Nazi/ dictator type situations.
Just because they're your friends, doesn't mean they can't become/ shouldn't ever be your enemies.
Otherwise, all that shit you learned at university was a waste of time, and just talk. Live it or shut up.
He has the choice and the right to choose that path.
I think I - or any person - have/has the right to ask him if he fully understands his choice, and to question if he applies the same principles to Israelis as he does to Palestinians.
It seems 'messy' covers a lot of human rights abuses which are frighteningly similar to Nazi/ dictator type situations.
Just because they're your friends, doesn't mean they can't become/ shouldn't ever be your enemies.
Otherwise, all that shit you learned at university was a waste of time, and just talk. Live it or shut up.
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
I don't think this is a right wing or left wing issue.
Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men.
- connecticuter
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Of course, in the beginning the Brits, Arabs, Palestinians and the Jews were all involved in the process. Eventually, like most things, it got complicated.vladimir wrote:connie, one question (which needs a yes/no answer):
Do you think that the creation of the State of Israel was a democratic process? IOW, was everyone involved (I'm not referring to Arabs, they're just 'not the chosen race' animals) consulted and asked for their opinions?
Because you always run to 'democracy' as a defence.
Here is something I did not know:Every major Arab leader objected in principle to the right of the Jews to an independent state in Palestine, reflecting the policies of the Arab League.
The UN General Assembly voted on the Partition Plan on November 29, 1947. Thirty-three states voted in favor of the Plan, while 13 countries opposed it. Ten countries abstained from the vote. The Yishuv accepted the plan, but the Arabs in Palestine and the surrounding Arab states rejected the plan. The Arab countries (all of which had opposed the plan) proposed to query the International Court of Justice on the competence of the General Assembly to partition a country against the wishes of the majority of its inhabitants, but were again defeated.[citation needed] The division was to take effect on the date of British withdrawal from the territory (May 15, 1948).
The approval of the plan sparked attacks carried out by Arab irregulars against the Jewish population in Palestine. Fighting began almost as soon as the plan was approved. Shooting, stoning, and rioting continued apace in the following days. The consulates of Poland and Sweden, both of whose governments had voted for partition, were attacked. Bombs were thrown into cafes, Molotov cocktails were hurled at shops, and a synagogue was set on fire. As the British evacuation from the region progressed, the violence became more prevalent. Murders, reprisals, and counter-reprisals came fast on each others' heels, resulting in dozens of victims killed on both sides in the process. The sanguinary impasse persisted as no force intervened to put a stop to the escalating cycles of violence. During the first two months of the war, about 1,000 people were killed and 2,000 injured. By the end of March, the figure had risen to 2,000 dead and 4,000 wounded.
On May 14, one day before the British Mandate expired, David Ben-Gurion declared the establishment of the State of Israel. The declaration of the state referred to the decision of the UN General Assembly as a legal justification for the establishment of the state. In accordance with the UN Resolution, the Declaration promised that the State of Israel would ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex, and guaranteed freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture.
wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... n_conflictDuring the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine ties were made between the Arab leadership in Palestine and the Nazi movement in Germany. These connections led to cooperation between the Palestinian national movement and the Axis powers later on during World War II. In May 1941 Amin al-Husayni issued a fatwa for a holy war against Britain. In 1941 during a meeting with Adolf Hitler Amin al-Husayni asked Germany to oppose, as part of the Arab struggle for independence, the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine. He received a promise from Hitler that Germany would eliminate the existing Jewish foundations in Palestine after the Germans had gained victory in the war. During the war Amin al-Husayni joined the Nazis, serving with the Waffen SS in Bosnia and Yugoslavia. In addition, during the war a joint Palestinian-Nazi military operation was held in the region of Palestine. These factors caused a deterioration in the relations between the Palestinian leadership and the British, which turned to collaborate with the Yeshuv during the period known as the 200 days of dread.
wikipedia
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The original tangent was about Iran's nuclear weapons program and Israel's proper response to it. A new tangent developed. What I would like to know from some of the posters is the following:
1. Aside from packing up and leaving Israel and granting a right of return (which are both unrealistic and intolerable), what should the Israelis do?
2. Do you think that if Israel unilaterally withdrew from both gaza and the westbank, removed all settlers, paid financial reparations, ended the blockade of gaza, removed the security fence, provided the palestinians with a contiguous border, etc..., that there would then be peace between Israel, the palestinians and their arab neighbors? I do not.
3. If the US ceased protecting Israel, do you think a genocide would occur? I do.
That's right. Shop smart. Shop S-Mart.
- kinglear#1
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Connie, I, for one, really don't know. I only wish the killing and maiming from both sides would stop and both sides be made to discuss things seriously and willingly. Perhaps the reasonable people from both sides could unite and say "Enough is enough". But that's not likely either because the nutcases would soon put a stop to that. Intransigence is intransigence. The whole thing is a mess and will only get worse unless some serious concessions are made.
O, let me not be mad, not mad, sweet heaven
- connecticuter
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When I said that the right of return and/or the removal of Jews from Israel was intolerable, I meant the following. Both options are not realistic policy suggestions.
I would use a few examples from the US to illustrate what I am saying.
During the revolutionary war many tories fled to Canada. If their ancestors claimed that they had a right of return, I do not see it likely that anyone would take that seriously.
We can all agree that the slave trade in early American history was a terrible thing. Supposing that the descendants of the slaves could trace their lineage to a particular African nation (which is often impossible to do), would you say they had a right of return? Would you say those African nations would be obligated to give them citizenship?
The history of the state of Texas is controversial. However, I think most would agree that by and large it was taken from Mexico. Would you hold that texas ought to be returned and/or that Mexicans whose ancestors fled texas had a right of return?
Would you suggest that the state of Connecticut should be divided up between the various indigenous tribes that remain today? Should the 3.5 million people of Connecticut up and leave?
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In practically every country you will find that existing population had supplanted an earlier population. Where do the claims end? This is why I have been stressing the need to consider facts on the ground as they are when constructing a compromise.
Providing a right of return to all the descenants of the original Palestinian refugees is just not realistic.
I would use a few examples from the US to illustrate what I am saying.
During the revolutionary war many tories fled to Canada. If their ancestors claimed that they had a right of return, I do not see it likely that anyone would take that seriously.
We can all agree that the slave trade in early American history was a terrible thing. Supposing that the descendants of the slaves could trace their lineage to a particular African nation (which is often impossible to do), would you say they had a right of return? Would you say those African nations would be obligated to give them citizenship?
The history of the state of Texas is controversial. However, I think most would agree that by and large it was taken from Mexico. Would you hold that texas ought to be returned and/or that Mexicans whose ancestors fled texas had a right of return?
Would you suggest that the state of Connecticut should be divided up between the various indigenous tribes that remain today? Should the 3.5 million people of Connecticut up and leave?
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In practically every country you will find that existing population had supplanted an earlier population. Where do the claims end? This is why I have been stressing the need to consider facts on the ground as they are when constructing a compromise.
Providing a right of return to all the descenants of the original Palestinian refugees is just not realistic.
That's right. Shop smart. Shop S-Mart.
I think the original recommendation to set up the Israel/Palestine issue as a separate thread was a good idea because it is a complex issue and is kinda separate from idiot Iranians throwing grenades at taxis in Thailand. But the Iranian Embassy has assured us it has nothing to do with Iran. The Thai gov't has assured us this is in now way a terrorist action. That makes me feel SOOO MUCH SAFER!!!
From what I've seen in the media there's a high probability it wasn't an Iranian government operation. Much too amateurish.
- connecticuter
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Interview with the Foreign Secretary William Hague
Iran risks nuclear Cold War
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... d-War.html
Iran risks nuclear Cold War
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... d-War.html
That's right. Shop smart. Shop S-Mart.
Yes, I wouldn't expect him to say anything else. They could have interviewed a tape recorder.
Hookers and Hookas:
Amateur trio whoring together in that "family holiday paradise" called Pattaya before the botched bombing attempt:
Amateur trio whoring together in that "family holiday paradise" called Pattaya before the botched bombing attempt:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1202/S ... -women.htmAlleged Iranian Bombers Cavorted With Thai Women at Beach Resort
By Richard S. Ehrlich
BANGKOK, Thailand -- Police hunted on Friday (Feb. 17) for a fifth alleged terrorist who may have taught three arrested Iranians how to bomb Israeli diplomats in Bangkok, and released a photo showing the trio celebrating with Thai girls at a sleazy beach resort before bungling their plot
"The additional suspect is a 52-year-old Iranian man, Nikkhahfard Javad, who was seen leaving the house hours before the blast," said Bangkok Metropolitan Police Deputy Commander Anuchai Lekbumrung on Friday (Feb. 17), referring to the Iranians' bomb-packed house which exploded on Tuesday (Feb. 14), apparently unintentionally.
Thai media said police suspected Mr. Javad was a bomb-making instructor, who allegedly helped the three younger Iranian men build so-called "magnet bombs" with C-4 explosives which could be stuck on the exterior of vehicles belonging to Israeli embassy personnel in Bangkok, but the plot failed.
A photograph published on Friday (Feb. 17) identified Mr. Javad as a stocky, graying, slightly balding man with a moustache and close-cropped beard arriving at Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi International Airport.
He was standing at the airport's desk where arriving passengers' passports are stamped, and was facing toward a mounted digital camera which photographs all incoming people.
A handful of foreign men and women can be seen waiting in line behind the Iranian, amid the airport arrival hall's distinctive, modern architecture.
Police said a sixth possible suspect may also be involved, but were unable to provide details except to announce that an unidentified foreign man was seen visiting the others in Bangkok at a rented house.
Another published photograph, however, showed three other Iranian men, before they were arrested, enjoying themselves with Thai girls in the beach resort of Pattaya, 45 miles (70 kilometers) southeast of Bangkok.
Internationally notorious because of its large population of inexpensive prostitutes, Pattaya has attracted sex tourists, foreign criminals and others who have exploited its lax ways for decades.
"As one of Thailand's major tourist spots, Pattaya could be a 'soft target' for terrorists," the American Embassy in Bangkok said in a confidential 2005 cable headlined, "Pattaya: Thailand's Extreme City" and "A Prime Terrorist Target?" which was released by the anti-secrecy website WikiLeaks last year.
"There is the large number of foreigners, including many from the Middle East and other areas of concern, making it easy for would-be terrorists to blend into the crowds," the U.S. embassy cable said.
"Pattaya has been a safe place for members of terror groups traveling in the region to shelter temporarily," according to the cable.
In the photo, the three Iranian men -- Saeid Moradi, Mohammad Kharzei, and Masoud Sedaghatzadeh -- appear relaxed on a sofa in a Middle Eastern restaurant alongside their female escorts, while enjoying beer and other drinks, plus three ornate hookah pipes provided by the restaurant.
Police said the photo was recovered in Pattaya from the mobile phone of one of the women, nicknamed Nan, who was Mr. Kharzei's escort.
In the picture, two women appear to be snuggling Mr. Sedaghatzadeh and 42-year-old Mr. Kharzei, while Mr. Moradi, 28, waits for his escort to take the photo using Nan's phone.
According to a published scan of his passport, Mr. Sedaghatzadeh's 31st birthday was on Feb. 12, but police did not announce the photo's date.
The three men stayed in Pattaya from Feb. 8 to 13, where they met the three Thai women who agreed to accompany them for an extended time to local restaurants, bars and for other entertainment, police said.
Nan said she went to Mr. Kharzei's hotel room where he told her not to look in his closet, police said.
"What we got from Ms. Nan is circumstantial evidence that helps confirm to us that they were here together in Pattaya," Police Lt. Col. Thawatchai Nongbua told reporters.
"National Police Chief, Priewpan Damapong, said police took Ms. Nan to the Immigration Bureau in Bangkok, to make Mr. Kharzei feel more at ease," the Bangkok Post reported on Friday (Feb. 17).
"Earlier, the suspect had showed signs of stress and refused to eat. After he met Ms. Nan, he appeared more relaxed and agreed to eat some food, Police Gen. Priewpan said," the paper reported.
On Tuesday (Feb. 14), the day after the Iranians left Pattaya, Mr. Moradi was arrested in Bangkok when he threw a grenade-like bomb at police which bounced back at him, destroying both his legs and injuring three Thai pedestrians.
Mr. Moradi spent Friday (Feb. 17) recovering in a Bangkok hospital where police hope to question him.
Police had been pursuing Mr. Moradi after he panicked and hurled a grenade-like device at a taxi which refused to give him a ride. That explosion damaged the vehicle and injured the driver.
Minutes earlier, Mr. Moradi and the two other Iranians fled their nearby rented house where they had stashed C-4 explosives, several magnets, hollowed-out radios and other bomb-making equipment, police said.
An unexplained explosion at the two-story house on Tuesday (Feb. 14) ripped off its roof and blew out the windows and doors, prompting the three Iranians to hurriedly leave on foot.
They appeared on security video images, taken by a nearby camera, which showed them carrying backpacks and walking away.
Mr. Kharzei was arrested hours later at Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi International Airport trying to fly to neighboring Malaysia.
Mr. Sedaghatzadeh successfully boarded a departing flight at the airport on Tuesday (Feb. 14), but was arrested on Wednesday (Feb. 15) after arriving in Malaysia where he was being held, pending possible extradition to Thailand.
An Iranian woman identified as Rohani Leila, 32, allegedly rented the house where the other suspects stayed, but police said she most likely escaped back to Iran.
Israel's Ambassador to Thailand, Itzhak Shoham, said the bomb-making evidence discovered in the house included so-called "magnet bombs" similar to the ones used in India and the former Soviet republic of Georgia on Monday (Feb. 13).
In each of those attacks, a bomb equipped with a magnet was stuck onto an Israeli Embassy vehicle to be detonated.
The explosion in New Delhi injured an Israeli diplomat's wife and driver in her car.
But the device in Tbilisi was discovered while attached to a vehicle and defused.
Israel blamed Iran for the attacks in India, Georgia and Thailand, but Tehran denied the charges.
"We cannot say yet if it is a terrorist act, but it is similar to the assassination attempt against a diplomat in India," Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul told reporters.
*****
Richard S. Ehrlich is a Bangkok-based journalist from San Francisco, California, reporting news from Asia since 1978, and recipient of Columbia University's Foreign Correspondent's Award. He is a co-author of three non-fiction books about Thailand, including "Hello My Big Big Honey!" Love Letters to Bangkok Bar Girls and Their Revealing Interviews; 60 Stories of Royal Lineage; and Chronicle of Thailand: Headline News Since 1946. Mr. Ehrlich also contributed to the final chapter, Ceremonies and Regalia, in a new book titled King Bhumibol Adulyadej, A Life's Work: Thailand's Monarchy in Perspective.
Alcohol is necessary so that a man can have a good opinion of himself, undisturbed by the facts
Mohammad Hazaei (centre) speaks to police after he was arrested at Suvarnabhumi Airport in Bangkok on Tuesday night.
Bomb disposal experts work on the Bangkok house rented by three Iranian men, which was blown up on Tuesday
More:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ttack.html
Alcohol is necessary so that a man can have a good opinion of himself, undisturbed by the facts
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Thai girls? Most of the times I've seen a 'Hadji' he was hanging onto a ladyboy...
The guy in the suit is probably playing Angry Birds...doktor_d wrote:
..
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