Religion & the meaning of life
- vladimir
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Joon and I agree on something.
gavinmac agreed with me on something this week.
Next thing scoffer will be tweeting me.
I need a drink.
gavinmac agreed with me on something this week.
Next thing scoffer will be tweeting me.
I need a drink.
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
joon the hedonistJoon wrote:In my view, there is no reason for "Life" to be/exist. It's just there.
And only humans are trying to find a reason or a meaning to "life" while they are really just looking for a meaning to "their lives."
The only universal drivers I can think of are first the need to stop and prevent pain and second the pursuit of "feeling good," be it physical, sensory pleasure or mental, psychological, emotional well-being.
i suspect many of us, including myself too often, live this way.
in my case it is preferable to find something more significant as i mature.
cannot say i know exactly what that "something" is but i think the journey of trying to find it may in fact be a big part of the so called "meaning of life"
Taxi, we'd rather walk. Huddle a doorway with the rain dogs The Rum pours strong and thin. Beat out the dustman with the Rain Dogs; Oh, how we danced and you Whispered to me ... You'll never be going back home
Partial Lyrics - Tom Waits
Partial Lyrics - Tom Waits
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I'm also re-reading the oldest extant piece of literature in the world, the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh. The hero king Gilgamesh has it all but he wants more - immortality, everlasting life, call it what you will.
He strives, he fails - it's not the lot of man he's told, and eventually accepts. The meaning of life is revealed by a humble barmaid and is as true today as it was c 4000 years ago before all these pesky religions conjured up false hopes:
i.e. eat, drink, be merry, take care of yourself, your spouse and kids - it's enough.
He strives, he fails - it's not the lot of man he's told, and eventually accepts. The meaning of life is revealed by a humble barmaid and is as true today as it was c 4000 years ago before all these pesky religions conjured up false hopes:
"Gilgamesh, whither are you wandering? Life, which you look for, you will never find. For when the gods created man, they let death be his share, and life withheld in their own hands. Gilgamesh, fill your belly. Day and night make merry. Let days be full of joy, dance and make music day and night. And wear fresh clothes. And wash your head and bathe. Look at the child that is holding your hand, and let your wife delight in your embrace. These things alone are the concern of men."
i.e. eat, drink, be merry, take care of yourself, your spouse and kids - it's enough.
Last edited by andyinasia on Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
I came, I argued, I'm out
Meaning of life: Get my drink on, get my smoke on, and go home with, something to poke on.
I was born.
I exist now.
I will cease to exist.
No more, no less.
Deal with it.(Sometimes the tough part).
I exist now.
I will cease to exist.
No more, no less.
Deal with it.(Sometimes the tough part).
She forgot sunscreen.andyinasia wrote:"Gilgamesh, fill your belly. Day and night make merry. Let days be full of joy, dance and make music day and night. And wear fresh clothes. And wash your head and bathe."
interesting read .... but no room for trying to improve society or help your fellow man in any of these arguments?andyinasia wrote:I'm also re-reading the oldest extant piece of literature in the world, the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh. The hero king Gilgamesh has it all but he wants more - immortality, everlasting life, call it what you will.
He strives, he fails - it's not the lot of man he's told, and eventually accepts. The meaning of life is revealed by a humble barmaid and is as true today as it was c 4000 years ago before all these pesky religions conjured up false hopes:
"Gilgamesh, whither are you wandering? Life, which you look for, you will never find. For when the gods created man, they let death be his share, and life withheld in their own hands. Gilgamesh, fill your belly. Day and night make merry. Let days be full of joy, dance and make music day and night. And wear fresh clothes. And wash your head and bathe. Look at the child that is holding your hand, and let your wife delight in your embrace. These things alone are the concern of men."
i.e. eat, drink, be merry, take care of yourself, your spouse and kids - it's enough.
there is a certain logic to hedonism but i also have found it to be a bit adolescent (I don't mean that as condescending as it sounds). as children we start out seeking pleasure and avoiding pain.
i would like to believe there is more to aspire to.
admittedly i might be happier if i did not have such aspirations.
Taxi, we'd rather walk. Huddle a doorway with the rain dogs The Rum pours strong and thin. Beat out the dustman with the Rain Dogs; Oh, how we danced and you Whispered to me ... You'll never be going back home
Partial Lyrics - Tom Waits
Partial Lyrics - Tom Waits
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Not really - my point is, it was all said at the beginning - since then it's all cover versions.metaleap wrote:She forgot sunscreen.andyinasia wrote:"Gilgamesh, fill your belly. Day and night make merry. Let days be full of joy, dance and make music day and night. And wear fresh clothes. And wash your head and bathe."
I came, I argued, I'm out
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Good point. We need to examine the context here (which I initially omitted as I wasn't expecting any interest!). This guy was the king; he'd brought peace and stability to his kingdom. Implicitly, there was no poverty left. At first deflated after buggering up his chance for immortality, he returned to his city-state with renewed appreciation. His final words areRain Dog wrote:interesting read .... but no room for trying to improve society or help your fellow man in any of these arguments?andyinasia wrote:I'm also re-reading the oldest extant piece of literature in the world, the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh. The hero king Gilgamesh has it all but he wants more - immortality, everlasting life, call it what you will.
He strives, he fails - it's not the lot of man he's told, and eventually accepts. The meaning of life is revealed by a humble barmaid and is as true today as it was c 4000 years ago before all these pesky religions conjured up false hopes:
"Gilgamesh, whither are you wandering? Life, which you look for, you will never find. For when the gods created man, they let death be his share, and life withheld in their own hands. Gilgamesh, fill your belly. Day and night make merry. Let days be full of joy, dance and make music day and night. And wear fresh clothes. And wash your head and bathe. Look at the child that is holding your hand, and let your wife delight in your embrace. These things alone are the concern of men."
i.e. eat, drink, be merry, take care of yourself, your spouse and kids - it's enough.
So in fact you could say the message is to be content with your life after you've done your civic duty or compassionate thing.Study the brickwork, study the fortification;
climb the ancient staircase to the terrace;
study how it is made; from the terrace see
the planted and fallow fields, the ponds and orchards.
I came, I argued, I'm out
Well that's not purely a "hedonistic" pursuit.Rain Dog wrote:joon the hedonistJoon wrote:In my view, there is no reason for "Life" to be/exist. It's just there.
And only humans are trying to find a reason or a meaning to "life" while they are really just looking for a meaning to "their lives."
The only universal drivers I can think of are first the need to stop and prevent pain and second the pursuit of "feeling good," be it physical, sensory pleasure or mental, psychological, emotional well-being.
i suspect many of us, including myself too often, live this way.
in my case it is preferable to find something more significant as i mature.
cannot say i know exactly what that "something" is but i think the journey of trying to find it may in fact be a big part of the so called "meaning of life"
In the pursuit of the "feel-good" factor, I include people who draw satisfaction, happiness from helping others, because if you really dig into motivation, doesn't people help others because it also makes them feel good?
fascinating perspective. thanks.andyinasia wrote:Good point. We need to examine the context here (which I initially omitted as I wasn't expecting any interest!). This guy was the king; he'd brought peace and stability to his kingdom. Implicitly, there was no poverty left. At first deflated after buggering up his chance for immortality, he returned to his city-state with renewed appreciation. His final words areRain Dog wrote:interesting read .... but no room for trying to improve society or help your fellow man in any of these arguments?andyinasia wrote:I'm also re-reading the oldest extant piece of literature in the world, the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh. The hero king Gilgamesh has it all but he wants more - immortality, everlasting life, call it what you will.
He strives, he fails - it's not the lot of man he's told, and eventually accepts. The meaning of life is revealed by a humble barmaid and is as true today as it was c 4000 years ago before all these pesky religions conjured up false hopes:
"Gilgamesh, whither are you wandering? Life, which you look for, you will never find. For when the gods created man, they let death be his share, and life withheld in their own hands. Gilgamesh, fill your belly. Day and night make merry. Let days be full of joy, dance and make music day and night. And wear fresh clothes. And wash your head and bathe. Look at the child that is holding your hand, and let your wife delight in your embrace. These things alone are the concern of men."
i.e. eat, drink, be merry, take care of yourself, your spouse and kids - it's enough.
So in fact you could say the message is to be content with your life after you've done your civic duty or compassionate thing.Study the brickwork, study the fortification;
climb the ancient staircase to the terrace;
study how it is made; from the terrace see
the planted and fallow fields, the ponds and orchards.
Taxi, we'd rather walk. Huddle a doorway with the rain dogs The Rum pours strong and thin. Beat out the dustman with the Rain Dogs; Oh, how we danced and you Whispered to me ... You'll never be going back home
Partial Lyrics - Tom Waits
Partial Lyrics - Tom Waits
The great thing about literature (especially classic literature) is that most of what anyone needs to know have already been written in the past (be that thousand or 10 years ago). Being a solid atheist I believe in the human need to have a faith in the idea that there is a higher form of intelligence (some turn to all kinds of religion for that reason). For years I was judgemental of very religious people taking them for fools, that would include my own mother. But some time ago I read an article (don't remember the name or the author) written by an atheist, born to an atheist family. The author was describing how she had come to realize (through some enlightening experience) that it was ok to believe, and it didn't even matter in who or what. What mattered was that it gave your soul the peace most of people had been looking for. This didn't make me a believer (it's a different topic) but definitely gave me a perspective on people searching for answers through faith, as opposed to their own minds. So simply saying: whatever rocks your boat (as long as you don't preach to me).
I agree with some posters above: it's about the journey, not the destination.
I found Coelho a bit simplistic but at the time I read his novels I was young and naive so they seemed bang on.
Reading Hesse's Glass Bead Game at the moment - genius stuff imho.
I agree with some posters above: it's about the journey, not the destination.
I found Coelho a bit simplistic but at the time I read his novels I was young and naive so they seemed bang on.
Reading Hesse's Glass Bead Game at the moment - genius stuff imho.
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Pretty much agree with that HsR. Great literature takes you places you wouldn't otherwise go. Such a shame so many people refuse to engage with it. I also find Coelho and that ilk simplistic - too many cute Facebook-like platitudes for my tastes, whereas your existentialist novelists along with all great writers avoid the easy slogans in favour of embracing the complexity.
I'm somewhat immersed this weekend (blame slavedog for selling me his Kindle) - alongside the atheist Camus and pagan Mespotamian epic, I'm going through the Old Testament again, as a work of literature. Camus wins, by the way.
I'm somewhat immersed this weekend (blame slavedog for selling me his Kindle) - alongside the atheist Camus and pagan Mespotamian epic, I'm going through the Old Testament again, as a work of literature. Camus wins, by the way.
I came, I argued, I'm out
- Lucky Lucan
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Who mentioned great literature?
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
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