Greece
- spitthedog
- Is the World Outside still there ?
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I'm guessing that since the ''game theorist'' has left the building, it's time for the realist to now try his luck,or what???
Looks like the chinese are propping up their stock market as well then.
Looks like the chinese are propping up their stock market as well then.
"I don't care what the people are thinking, i ain't drunk i'm just drinking"
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- Stabby McStaberson
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I think the New Development Bank, initiated mainly by the Chinese but now has major backing from the other BRICS countries to counterbalance the US-dominated IMF and World Bank, should demonstrate their stated mission by buying up all the Greek debt on very generous terms of repayment and low interest rates. That is sure to end well.
..and if you disagree with me, you are one billion times WORSE than HITLER!!!
- Jacked Camry
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As the one who has raised the issue of the banksters, kindly identify anywhere that I have lauded the actions of the Greek government for their irresponsible behaviour. You won't find one because this is a straw man. Of course the Greek government were a bunch of cunts and the Greeks themselves have been completely irresponsible. But someone had to hand them a bottle and the keys to the sports car.Pol Pothead wrote:Isn't this what the "banksters" were blasted for doing in 2008...happily accepting any and all monies they could get their hands on and then washing their hands of all responsibility when their investments lost money and then passing the problem to the taxpayers? It seems to me the Greek government happily accepted any monies they could get their hands on and are now washing their hands of all responsibility now that money is depleted with nothing to show for it and then passing the problem to the rest of the EU taxpayers.
The same people who rightfully blast the "banksters" are now cheering the Greek government for the same irresponsible behavior.
I read a stat today that makes one think. The total cost of the current Greek debt is 20% of the money that taxpayers paid to keep the banks afloat during the GFC.
We are being conned by the banksters and the media, and they really dont want Greece to escape the punishment. Two countries have defaulted recently, one was Argentina. Apparently things are going along pretty well now for them. Economics is little understood but in reality all this money is just numbers in computers, the US has been printing money like mad. And therefore the dollar must be devalued- no, not at all.
Its all bollocks.
We are being conned by the banksters and the media, and they really dont want Greece to escape the punishment. Two countries have defaulted recently, one was Argentina. Apparently things are going along pretty well now for them. Economics is little understood but in reality all this money is just numbers in computers, the US has been printing money like mad. And therefore the dollar must be devalued- no, not at all.
Its all bollocks.
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- Stabby McStaberson
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"Going along pretty well" is questionable...even though Argentina greatly benefited from the China-led commodity boom. This doesn't apply to Greece, and is mostly over for the time being as China's growth slows.ken svay wrote:Two countries have defaulted recently, one was Argentina. Apparently things are going along pretty well now for them.
Anyway, look at what has happened to the Argentine Peso...and the black market rate is nearly twice the official exchange rate.
http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from= ... S&view=10Y
What good is an increase in household income of 43% since the default when the currency you get paid in is worth 20% what is was worth before the default?
Comparing the current Greece situation to the dire US financial situation is like comparing a hemorrhaging gunshot victim with someone diagnosed with cancer. They are both in dire straights and possibly beyond hope, but one is dying right now and the other is losing the battle over a prolonged period of time. Either way, the outcome will probably be the same without drastic, severe changes in government spending/taxation and social policy.
..and if you disagree with me, you are one billion times WORSE than HITLER!!!
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- Stabby McStaberson
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Jacked Camry wrote:As the one who has raised the issue of the banksters, kindly identify anywhere that I have lauded the actions of the Greek government for their irresponsible behaviour. You won't find one because this is a straw man. .
i imagine you'll claim you were cheering the Greek 'no" voters and not the government, but that is nonsense as the government blatantly told them to vote 'no'.Jacked Camry wrote:http://www.businessinsider.com/greece-r ... ebt-2015-7
Good on the Greeks, tell 'em to get fucked and force the system to operate as it's supposed to. The investment banks took the risk of lending, they should take the bath of the loan going south, not the EU.
By the way, I believe it is the EU financial institutions (funded by EU taxpayers) taking the majority of the financial hit in this case
Last edited by Pol Pothead on Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
..and if you disagree with me, you are one billion times WORSE than HITLER!!!
- springrain
- I'm on 3000; na na, na na na
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Another article to support JC's point from today's Indy:
Goldman Sachs faces the prospect of potential legal action from Greece over the complex financial deals in 2001 that many blame for its subsequent debt crisis...
Greece managed to keep within the strict Maastricht rules for eurozone membership largely because of complex financial deals created by the investment bank which critics say disguised the extent of the country’s outstanding debts...
Goldman Sachs is said to have made as much as $500m from the transactions known as “swaps”. It denies that figure but declines to say what the correct one is.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 81926.html
***Edit***
7.27 Greek MPs vote to back deal proposal
Goldman Sachs faces the prospect of potential legal action from Greece over the complex financial deals in 2001 that many blame for its subsequent debt crisis...
Greece managed to keep within the strict Maastricht rules for eurozone membership largely because of complex financial deals created by the investment bank which critics say disguised the extent of the country’s outstanding debts...
Goldman Sachs is said to have made as much as $500m from the transactions known as “swaps”. It denies that figure but declines to say what the correct one is.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 81926.html
***Edit***
7.27 Greek MPs vote to back deal proposal
'History is a set of lies agreed upon.'
Attributed to Napoleon
Attributed to Napoleon
- Jacked Camry
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No need to imagine, I always respond.Pol Pothead wrote:Jacked Camry wrote:As the one who has raised the issue of the banksters, kindly identify anywhere that I have lauded the actions of the Greek government for their irresponsible behaviour. You won't find one because this is a straw man. .i imagine you'll claim you were cheering the Greek 'no" voters and not the government, but that is nonsense as the government blatantly told them to vote 'no'.Jacked Camry wrote:http://www.businessinsider.com/greece-r ... ebt-2015-7
Good on the Greeks, tell 'em to get fucked and force the system to operate as it's supposed to. The investment banks took the risk of lending, they should take the bath of the loan going south, not the EU.
By the way, I believe it is the EU financial institutions (funded by EU taxpayers) taking the majority of the financial hit in this case
When you speak of the Greek Government's irresponsible behavior, you speak of it's bloated civil service payroll, disinterest in collecting tax from the wealthy, pandering to voters by giving away absurd benefits, purchasing lots of weapons while going down the drain financially etc. You were not talking about the vote which is a different issue. Unless, of course, you equate that vote with irresponsible behavior - I do not.
I have not maintained that the Greek Government has been in any way a responsible or well-managed one. However, I agree with them that they shouldn't have accepted that bullshit deal which even the ones offering it realized and explicitly wrote as such wouldn't solve the debt problem or bring about the kind of economic change required. I haven't looked at the new deal yet. And should the EU financial institutions take a bath instead? Sure, why not? Why allow banks to continuously get bailed out of their bad decisions. If there are no consequences to their actions, how can one expect them to change in response to market forces?
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- Stabby McStaberson
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Who's money do you think banks hold and invest? Is it only "the bankster's" private money that gets lost in a sovereign default or is it the life savings of millions of average, hard-working citizens?Jacked Camry wrote: And should the EU financial institutions take a bath instead? Sure, why not? Why allow banks to continuously get bailed out of their bad decisions. If there are no consequences to their actions, how can one expect them to change in response to market forces?
A bank bailout is the bailout of the depositors and savers.
..and if you disagree with me, you are one billion times WORSE than HITLER!!!
- Jacked Camry
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Yes, of course it is. And by their losses, they'll perhaps demand accountability and protection. They've so far simply rolled over to the Banksters and their cronies capturing the democratic systems that are supposed to regulate it.Pol Pothead wrote:Who's money do you think banks hold and invest? Is it only "the bankster's" private money that gets lost in a sovereign default or is it the life savings of millions of average, hard-working citizens?Jacked Camry wrote: And should the EU financial institutions take a bath instead? Sure, why not? Why allow banks to continuously get bailed out of their bad decisions. If there are no consequences to their actions, how can one expect them to change in response to market forces?
A bank bailout is the bailout of the depositors and savers.
If these banks fail, the Banksters are the ones who are now first in the queue to get their money back so they actually won't lose a thing. It's only if large numbers of people do that they'll perhaps wake up to how the system has been captured and is completely screwing them over. Papering it over until the next crash won't solve anything, and the current situation is that the Banksters and their cronies ARE sucking up all the wealth that's being created.
You don't think something needs to change? You think that you'd trust those who have set up this system to change it for the better and to serve the people it was supposed to serve? I see you attacking my ideas, what are yours? All is well, the Greeks would be fine if they accepted the deal they were offered? I am not saying that this is your position, I am asking you for your views on these issues.
- Felgerkarb
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andyinasia wrote:Pol Pothead wrote:The same people who rightfully blast the "banksters" are now cheering the Greek government for the same irresponsible behavior.
I can only speak for myself, but as a confessed 'bank blaster' I'm also blasting the Greek government and electorate in this instance. They do seem to be making it up as they go along, what with negotiating positions written on napkins, and deals post-referendum being identical to deals pre-referendum. They're wasting everyone's time.
Don't forget what got them in this mess...politicians giving shit away to stay in power....and the people lapped it up. Democracy at work. Eventually, someone does have to pay the bills....
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Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
- spitthedog
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Results from a survey done by Yougov, with the British and French putting alot more blame for the Greece crisis on the troika.
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/07/10/ge ... -support-/
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/07/10/ge ... -support-/
"I don't care what the people are thinking, i ain't drunk i'm just drinking"
- Felgerkarb
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Propaganda at work. What about the reasons Greece went broke in the first place and examine that...
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Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
- Jacked Camry
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Some potentially good news - Elizabeth Warren and John McCain (strange bedfellows!) are trying to re-introduce Glass-Steagall, which would separate the banks that provide traditional services (deposits, loans, etc.) from the investment banks that provide the risky and complicated financial instruments that led to the meltdown. It should be noted that the repeal of this legislation by the Clinton administration was what set this whole disaster in motion (not Greece, the first financial meltdown).
http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/comm ... -our-money
http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/comm ... -our-money
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