Europe wants the boats stopped.
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Europe wants the boats stopped.
So it seems Australia's success turning boats back will be considered to save lives in the Mediterranean . It's about time 400 last week 700 yesterday drowning. I would've thought this strategy was obvious.
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L7, not to nitpick, but the figure for Sunday's disaster now stands at 800. Most of them were poor buggers locked below deck.
Mr Salvi said hundreds of passengers had been locked below deck and hundreds more were crammed on to its upper deck. It is believed the boat capsized when an attempted rescue by a Portuguese merchant ship caused panic. Only 28 people were rescued. Most of the children had been locked in the holds!
As I understand it, the new measures involve further rescue operations, with increased targeting of the smugglers' boats. The evil smuggling b***ar*s are to blame. And, to be fair, the EU seem intent on tackling the root of the problem.
A full list of the ten points here:
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-4813_en.htm
Mr Salvi said hundreds of passengers had been locked below deck and hundreds more were crammed on to its upper deck. It is believed the boat capsized when an attempted rescue by a Portuguese merchant ship caused panic. Only 28 people were rescued. Most of the children had been locked in the holds!
As I understand it, the new measures involve further rescue operations, with increased targeting of the smugglers' boats. The evil smuggling b***ar*s are to blame. And, to be fair, the EU seem intent on tackling the root of the problem.
A full list of the ten points here:
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-4813_en.htm
'History is a set of lies agreed upon.'
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Lucky Seven wrote:So it seems Australia's success turning boats back will be considered to save lives in the Mediterranean . It's about time 400 last week 700 yesterday drowning. I would've thought this strategy was obvious.
"So it seems" : to who ? To you ? As usual you show no sources...
Why are you using unfortunate dead refugees on their way to Europe to justify Australia fascist stance ?
As spingrain already stated, the only actual debate is Europe willingness to help Italy deal with a problem bigger that it's own abilities.
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EU leaders are holding an emergency summit meeting on Thursday to discuss stopping the the smugglers in Libya.Barang_doa_slae wrote:Lucky Seven wrote:So it seems Australia's success turning boats back will be considered to save lives in the Mediterranean . It's about time 400 last week 700 yesterday drowning. I would've thought this strategy was obvious.
"So it seems" : to who ? To you ? As usual you show no sources...
Why are you using unfortunate dead refugees on their way to Europe to justify Australia fascist stance ?
As spingrain already stated, the only actual debate is Europe willingness to help Italy deal with a problem bigger that it's own abilities.
Using dead refugees to support my argument ...... don't be silly.
You're another with a grudge against Australia .... bad luck for you.
You ever thought not stopping the boats is encouraging more to attempt the perilous journey ? Hasn't been a death since Australia stopped the boats in the last 12 months .... little bit of a different story in the Mediterranean at the moment where the people smugglers have total control.
eh , let's wait and see .
You're so smart .... how about we forget Australia for a moment . What's you solution , if you had a choice would you choose to stop the boats leaving or let them leave and take the risk ?
It really hurts you and others to think the Australian policy has worked , it has , get over it.
Edit..
I've just read springrains link did you ?
One of the 10 points of discussion is the destroying of smugglers boats and considering a military operation similar to the Atalanta Operation.
You may want reconsider calling me stupid at the moment because it may come back and bite you on the bum.
This is a big problem for Europe and adopting a no help policy like some other countries have, would in the short term stem the number of boats making the crossing.
Countries like Indonesia who will not help boat people 'unless in imminent danger' are not, afaik, signatories of the 1951 Convention. For the countries that are signatories, including that desert island in the south pacific, there has to be an overhaul of the 1951/53/67 conventions so they can act on it in an amended way. Times change and so must the ways to deal with the problem. What Europe hasn't done though, is ignore these people or illegally interned them on an island or on the brink of about to illegally transport them to a 'third world country'.
Although it could be seen as to their detriment, countries such as Italy are conducting themselves with civility and humanity.
Perhaps this thread could be merged with the other refugee thread.
Countries like Indonesia who will not help boat people 'unless in imminent danger' are not, afaik, signatories of the 1951 Convention. For the countries that are signatories, including that desert island in the south pacific, there has to be an overhaul of the 1951/53/67 conventions so they can act on it in an amended way. Times change and so must the ways to deal with the problem. What Europe hasn't done though, is ignore these people or illegally interned them on an island or on the brink of about to illegally transport them to a 'third world country'.
Although it could be seen as to their detriment, countries such as Italy are conducting themselves with civility and humanity.
Perhaps this thread could be merged with the other refugee thread.
"Not my circus, not my monkeys" - KiR
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Kinard , get over your hate for Australia . Referring to it as a desert island in the south pacific is a weak shot. If that's supposed to portray the place as so unattractive why are you so obsessed with sending the asylum seekers there ?kinard wrote: What Europe hasn't done though, is ignore these people or illegally interned them on an island or on the brink of about to illegally transport them to a 'third world country'.
Although it could be seen as to their detriment, countries such as Italy are conducting themselves with civility and humanity.
.
I don't think it's illegal for Australia to resettle the refugees anywhere that meets the standards set and Cambodia clearly does.......are you a lawyer because if not zip up on the legalities .
You winge about Cambodia being a third world country not good enough for asylum seekers...... where did they come from , certainly not a first world country . You praise Italy for their rescue efforts but conveniently fail to give any recognition to the Australian efforts rescuing almost 50000 in just a two year period !!
Anyway this threads not about Cambodia it's about the Mediterranean and stopping boats to save lives.
I will agree Italy are doing a magnificent job with very little help from other EU countries who withdrew financial support for the rescues because many thought it just encouraged more to take the risk.
I've asked Barang ... so I will ask you also. If you want to come on here and be critical then how about raising a possible solution for the problem and don't be cynic.
Is it better to stop the boats in Libya or wherever to save lives or let the people smugglers expand their business and lose more lives ?
I have put forward the notion that the 1951 convention needs to be redrafted, as a solution. I don't have to be a lawyer to have an opinion on legality just as you don't have to be a right wing zealot to have an opinion on why Australia's policy should be taken up by Europe.
"Not my circus, not my monkeys" - KiR
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I think there's some misreading of those ten points I put up. The only way to deal with the problem is by getting to the root cause of these terrible tragedies - the smugglers. Simply turning back boat after boat won't work. If anything, it'll lead to a continuance of the suffering. The smugglers will enter into more covert operations, with more locked holds and so on. They make good dosh out of their evil schemes.
It's impossible to believe that after all this time, with all the technology available, there are still so many people living in abject misery on this planet. Such misery that they risk their lives at the hands of gangs to get to another country. What happens when they get there? Probable enslavement, paying off the debts they've incurred - or internment in camps that are hardly humane.
First, tackle the smugglers. Then explore ways to increase more equal distribution of wealth-creating opportunities. It can be done.
It's impossible to believe that after all this time, with all the technology available, there are still so many people living in abject misery on this planet. Such misery that they risk their lives at the hands of gangs to get to another country. What happens when they get there? Probable enslavement, paying off the debts they've incurred - or internment in camps that are hardly humane.
First, tackle the smugglers. Then explore ways to increase more equal distribution of wealth-creating opportunities. It can be done.
'History is a set of lies agreed upon.'
Attributed to Napoleon
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Kinard , as usual you duck and weave and avoid the question I asked.kinard wrote:I have put forward the notion that the 1951 convention needs to be redrafted, as a solution. I don't have to be a lawyer to have an opinion on legality just as you don't have to be a right wing zealot to have an opinion on why Australia's policy should be taken up by Europe.
What's better , stopping the boats from leaving or let the smugglers continue to encourage people seeking asylum to risk their lives ?
Answer the question , not too difficult for you is it ? Unless of course by answering honestly you will be agreeing with me . Come on don't be a pussy , what's your answer ?
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Absolutely brilliant this mirrors my views , I'm having trouble getting the same across with some idiot targeting me as a right wing zealot . Anyway for those that are interested I agree with you.springrain wrote:I think there's some misreading of those ten points I put up. The only way to deal with the problem is by getting to the root cause of these terrible tragedies - the smugglers. Simply turning back boat after boat won't work. If anything, it'll lead to a continuance of the suffering. The smugglers will enter into more covert operations, with more locked holds and so on. They make good dosh out of their evil schemes.
It's impossible to believe that after all this time, with all the technology available, there are still so many people living in abject misery on this planet. Such misery that they risk their lives at the hands of gangs to get to another country. What happens when they get there? Probable enslavement, paying off the debts they've incurred - or internment in camps that are hardly humane.
First, tackle the smugglers. Then explore ways to increase more equal distribution of wealth-creating opportunities. It can be done.
The overview should be that we don't sweep these people 'under the carpet' which has been happening in some instances, and that was recognised way back hence the UN Convention. Targeting the smugglers is good in theory but harder in practice, as Tony Abbott discovered with Indonesia over his offers of payment to dob in a smuggler. An idealist point of view would be to stop the wars that displace the people in the first place but that wont happen. Who the hell can forsake someone for wanting to flee a war? ...or a fucked economy for that matter.
It is still my belief the convention has to be redrawn and ratified by those who are willing to meet the required obligations of a new charter. If that involves the targeting of smugglers, increased quotas of immigrants with transportation supplied, re-orientation programs, work training etc... then all the better.
It is still my belief the convention has to be redrawn and ratified by those who are willing to meet the required obligations of a new charter. If that involves the targeting of smugglers, increased quotas of immigrants with transportation supplied, re-orientation programs, work training etc... then all the better.
"Not my circus, not my monkeys" - KiR
- springrain
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Looks like the EU will be getting tougher on illegal fishing practices, too:
Thailand threatened with possible EU fish trade ban
Thailand's fishing industry has come under scrutiny after investigations uncovered the use of human trafficking, forced labour and ill-treatment. It is thought that more than 300,000 people are employed in Thailand's fishing sector. However, many of the workers are illegal migrants from neighbouring countries such as Myanmar and Cambodia.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-32408453
Thailand threatened with possible EU fish trade ban
Thailand's fishing industry has come under scrutiny after investigations uncovered the use of human trafficking, forced labour and ill-treatment. It is thought that more than 300,000 people are employed in Thailand's fishing sector. However, many of the workers are illegal migrants from neighbouring countries such as Myanmar and Cambodia.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-32408453
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kinard wrote:The overview should be that we don't sweep these people 'under the carpet' which has been happening in some instances, and that was recognised way back hence the UN Convention. Targeting the smugglers is good in theory but harder in practice, as Tony Abbott discovered with Indonesia over his offers of payment to dob in a smuggler. An idealist point of view would be to stop the wars that displace the people in the first place but that wont happen. Who the hell can forsake someone for wanting to flee a war? ...or a fucked economy for that matter.
It is still my belief the convention has to be redrawn and ratified by those who are willing to meet the required obligations of a new charter. If that involves the targeting of smugglers, increased quotas of immigrants with transportation supplied, re-orientation programs, work training etc... then all the better.
And paid for how? The EU, as well as the rest of the Western World, is broke. In the coming years there will be less to go around, not more.
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