Australia ... this is appalling
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I think it's appalling those restraint and containment measures need to be taken but what's the alternative , let them continue to offend because that's what they do . That video reinforces one sides agenda. It's a pity we don't have a video of him kicking unconscious a 17yo and robbing him a day after an unprovoked attack on another man . These attacks were with the help of others in his gang.
He's had a lot of jail time and now he is an adult not a child . He is in jail with a lengthy sentence in a country that is notoriously lenient with offenders. We have African refugee youths out of control in Melbourne performing car jackings , aggravated burglaries , home invasions and more . These youths are dangerous recidivist offenders that have no respect or fear for the law because the " do gooders " want to give them a chance .
My comments are to balance the argument . These young offenders are bad boys that need to be punished . They are made well aware of their responsibilities in jail and given warnings before these " appalling " measures are taken . Stop tolerating violent anti social behaviour by making excuses for the pricks.
He's had a lot of jail time and now he is an adult not a child . He is in jail with a lengthy sentence in a country that is notoriously lenient with offenders. We have African refugee youths out of control in Melbourne performing car jackings , aggravated burglaries , home invasions and more . These youths are dangerous recidivist offenders that have no respect or fear for the law because the " do gooders " want to give them a chance .
My comments are to balance the argument . These young offenders are bad boys that need to be punished . They are made well aware of their responsibilities in jail and given warnings before these " appalling " measures are taken . Stop tolerating violent anti social behaviour by making excuses for the pricks.
Again L7 - not condoning the crimes these boys/girls commit - but it highlights the inadequacy of a system that should be geared to rehabilitate them, so that they can be functioning civil adults. Currently this system will not do that! The methods highlighted are medically proven to be ineffective - trawl through case studies in the medical journals, and you will consistently see that scare tactics and boot camps are ineffective, non-deterrent and in fact responsible for higher recidivism rates - they are stuck in the cycle related to social issues (in most cases) they face. Go through those other case studies, and success in breaking juvenile - early adulthood delinquency is education, recreation, community involvement, bullying prevention, potential job training. Will this be successful in curing all - NO! Those that don't want to conform - we have a judicial system for that, lock them up! But how about those who have the potential - they will never meet that as instead, they face the abuse shown in these vidoes.
Yes- I'm talking about utopia, these programs do not have the backing or goodwill of many governments as they are expensive to run. I share your anger toward the crimes this kid committed as a 16yo- however, I also see as a medical practitioner, the same kid in this video at the age of 11 -13 abused in such an inhumane way because he was displaying signs of psychological trauma - and we bemoan the fact he turned out worse??? Fuck the system that contributed to that path for him
He is not locked up for a long time - he will be out next month btw. I hope to got that he follows through with what he wrote in his letter, but somehow I don't believe he will - the system won't allow him to!
The Sudanese issues in Melbourne are exactly the same - except everyone is too scared to even lock them up!
Yes- I'm talking about utopia, these programs do not have the backing or goodwill of many governments as they are expensive to run. I share your anger toward the crimes this kid committed as a 16yo- however, I also see as a medical practitioner, the same kid in this video at the age of 11 -13 abused in such an inhumane way because he was displaying signs of psychological trauma - and we bemoan the fact he turned out worse??? Fuck the system that contributed to that path for him
He is not locked up for a long time - he will be out next month btw. I hope to got that he follows through with what he wrote in his letter, but somehow I don't believe he will - the system won't allow him to!
The Sudanese issues in Melbourne are exactly the same - except everyone is too scared to even lock them up!
Another black day on Australia's human rights record. Yehaa, go fuck yourself L7- toss wad.
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L7, assuming the rest of your post is gospel, why not just lock them up? Why torture them? Do some people get some sick satisfaction out of it? Lots of countries have facilities for juvenile offenders and don't do this.Lucky Seven wrote:My comments are to balance the argument . These young offenders are bad boys that need to be punished . They are made well aware of their responsibilities in jail and given warnings before these " appalling " measures are taken . Stop tolerating violent anti social behaviour by making excuses for the pricks.
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
When I was in the cadets (roughly 14yrs old) we were made to stand outside in our underwear in the middle of the night while our bare feet were on the cold ground.chubacca wrote:Jesus Lucky Seven - bit harsh mate! Sure he is an extremely disturbed young fella, and likely a consequence of being abused by his old man from a young age and so ingrained with the notion that he is nothing - and no doubt now also a product of a system which has just reinforced that! What a horrible cycle to be in, what kind of future do you reckon he has? Scum as a kid yes, could he have been rehabilitated? "Maybe" or "maybe not". But the current system helps lean it towards "proabably not" don't you think?Lucky Seven wrote: He's a bad violent thug and thief . Tried to run down a police officer in a stolen car . He's an ice addict . He assaults prison staff . He spits and is warned the hood goes on if he does . He self harms and harms others and is warned the restraints go on if he does. Don't play down his role in the events . He has a lengthy prison for a good reason , He's been a feral anti social individual for years who is now playing the game and likely to get a nice payout . I hope the victims he and his gang kicked unconscious and robbed sue him if he does use the system for personal gain.
To any idiot that wants to describe this as another black day for Australia's human rights record go fuck yourself .
Not rehashing the video that V put on, but given the length, some may not have watched the whole thing - so here is a condensed version of the footage of what Dylan Voller had been subjected to - to give you an indication not all is right with him, he displays several instances where he appears to be wanting to self harm - look at the response from the officers (which I have to say, is currently legal as ajudged by the fact the courts decided that the officers committed no offence in these cases) - L7 - if that were your son, how would you feel???
I will go fuck myself now, as I for one am appalled at this being allowed to be done to a child - not just in Australia, but anywhere!
In the military my Warrant Officer made me sit in a chair for 12 hours as punishment so he didn't need to charge me for coming to work late.
The world has gone soft. Is Sitting in a chair with a breathable hood on really now torture?
You were tortured and didn't even realise it? Hmmm, odd. Did he ever try and touch your pink bits?
"Not my circus, not my monkeys" - KiR
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You're a one trick pony Kinard . Put your headphones on and listen to some tunes.kinard wrote:Another black day on Australia's human rights record. Yehaa, go fuck yourself L7- toss wad.
He would have ended up with stinky hands. I was late for a reason.kinard wrote:You were tortured and didn't even realise it? Hmmm, odd. Did he ever try and touch your pink bits?
I'm surprised by how soft some of you are.
I guarantee some snake oil salesman could convince people to sit around a fire like this with a yogi in the middle and call it a meditation retreat.
And to the person who said someone was being threatened with rape, how many police officers do you think say that to people they're interviewing (still innocent) on a secondly basis?
Having sympathy for evil people is strange, especially when it's not really torture.
But I suppose it's cool to be part of the politically correct social media whiners these days, and when someone doesn't agree with you ask them if they were sexually abused.
Do you see the irony, or are you too smart?
Fair comment, but all I was thinking was- if you have let yourself be told to sit in a chair in your underpants amid uncomfortable conditions, was that the only abuse you suffered or did the bad man try and touch you up? You do come across as bit of a victim, you know, impressionable and all that. Just curious, didn't intend to be rude and yes, there are times I don't see the irony, usually because there isn't any.
"Not my circus, not my monkeys" - KiR
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My post is true . Its possible some do get some sick satisfaction dishing out punishment to those misfits and they deserve to be eliminated from the system. There are many more dedicated professionals who do their best only to be abused assaulted or spat on by offenders . Torture is a tough term I wouldn't say they are tortured. I would say they are being subjected to severe punishment , perhaps too extreme at times.vladimir wrote:L7, assuming the rest of your post is gospel, why not just lock them up? Why torture them? Do some people get some sick satisfaction out of it? Lots of countries have facilities for juvenile offenders and don't do this.Lucky Seven wrote:My comments are to balance the argument . These young offenders are bad boys that need to be punished . They are made well aware of their responsibilities in jail and given warnings before these " appalling " measures are taken . Stop tolerating violent anti social behaviour by making excuses for the pricks.
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My guess would be that not many Australian police would threaten to lock a child up with rapists. I suspect that most police interviews with children would be both supervised and recorded, and if a cop did threaten a child like that, they would lose their job.finy wrote:
And to the person who said someone was being threatened with rape, how many police officers do you think say that to people they're interviewing (still innocent) on a secondly basis?
So Finy, I guess you are calling me out as soft - no probs, pretty good as an internet warrior. I also went through similar in cadets but there was also a balance wasn't there? You were unlikely to have been made to stand outside in your jocks every single night of your cadetship, you were not confined to solitary confinement for over 15 days when the NT legislation limits solitary confinement for minors to a max of 72hours at a time. You were unlikely to have been set upon by guards weighing 2-3 tmes your weight and who practice MMA in their spare time. As a cadet, you learnt how to operate as a team, gained team building skills, developed leadership and survivals skills. You will have gone on bivouacs, done things for the community.finy wrote:When I was in the cadets (roughly 14yrs old) we were made to stand outside in our underwear in the middle of the night while our bare feet were on the cold ground.chubacca wrote:Jesus Lucky Seven - bit harsh mate! Sure he is an extremely disturbed young fella, and likely a consequence of being abused by his old man from a young age and so ingrained with the notion that he is nothing - and no doubt now also a product of a system which has just reinforced that! What a horrible cycle to be in, what kind of future do you reckon he has? Scum as a kid yes, could he have been rehabilitated? "Maybe" or "maybe not". But the current system helps lean it towards "proabably not" don't you think?Lucky Seven wrote: He's a bad violent thug and thief . Tried to run down a police officer in a stolen car . He's an ice addict . He assaults prison staff . He spits and is warned the hood goes on if he does . He self harms and harms others and is warned the restraints go on if he does. Don't play down his role in the events . He has a lengthy prison for a good reason , He's been a feral anti social individual for years who is now playing the game and likely to get a nice payout . I hope the victims he and his gang kicked unconscious and robbed sue him if he does use the system for personal gain.
To any idiot that wants to describe this as another black day for Australia's human rights record go fuck yourself .
Not rehashing the video that V put on, but given the length, some may not have watched the whole thing - so here is a condensed version of the footage of what Dylan Voller had been subjected to - to give you an indication not all is right with him, he displays several instances where he appears to be wanting to self harm - look at the response from the officers (which I have to say, is currently legal as ajudged by the fact the courts decided that the officers committed no offence in these cases) - L7 - if that were your son, how would you feel???
I will go fuck myself now, as I for one am appalled at this being allowed to be done to a child - not just in Australia, but anywhere!
In the military my Warrant Officer made me sit in a chair for 12 hours as punishment so he didn't need to charge me for coming to work late.
The world has gone soft. Is Sitting in a chair with a breathable hood on really now torture?
You joined the military for what reason? Was it to become hard as nails - or for love of country and fellow man, so that you felt compelled to fight for them. Did you learn skills while in the military? Or were you shackled to a chair all the time you were there? Don't think so.
You can't compare what is going on here, with your time in cadets or the military! The circumstances and systems are not the same!
This issue has nothing to do if we are all going 'soft' - it has to do with how to best rehabilitate offenders, and yes, offenders of some horrific crimes who are minors and may have potential of contributing to society. Some won't - and these will be locked up for a long time. Others might need the chance - this way won't give them that chance.
You can't make any accurate assumptions about me when you don't even know what I'm talking about.kinard wrote:Fair comment, but all I was thinking was- if you have let yourself be told to sit in a chair in your underpants amid uncomfortable conditions, was that the only abuse you suffered or did the bad man try and touch you up? You do come across as bit of a victim, you know, impressionable and all that. Just curious, didn't intend to be rude and yes, there are times I don't see the irony, usually because there isn't any.
At no point did I say I was made to sit in a chair in my underpants in uncomfortable conditions.
Are you American?prahocalypse now wrote:My guess would be that not many Australian police would threaten to lock a child up with rapists. I suspect that most police interviews with children would be both supervised and recorded, and if a cop did threaten a child like that, they would lose their job.finy wrote:
And to the person who said someone was being threatened with rape, how many police officers do you think say that to people they're interviewing (still innocent) on a secondly basis?
I'm the UK, and I'm guessing Australia, you're an adult at 16.
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