Sexual harassment accusation frenzy in the US
- spitthedog
- Is the World Outside still there ?
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To be fair, Woody Allen does look like a perv.
Has there been many guys arrested for kiddie fiddlin' in the KOW who didn't look like pervs?
Just my 2 cents.
Has there been many guys arrested for kiddie fiddlin' in the KOW who didn't look like pervs?
Just my 2 cents.
"I don't care what the people are thinking, i ain't drunk i'm just drinking"
Woody Allen didn't 'marry his stepdaughter'. She was adopted by Farrow: Woody and Farrow were never married, nor did he adopt the girl.Miguelito wrote:
I'd rather the Hollywood elite finally address Woody Allen. That guy is a freaking creep. Accused by one step-daughter of assault at the age of seven, and then the guy married his other step daughter! WTF.
"The 32-year-old has repeatedly accused Allen of molesting her when she was seven - claims the director has always denied."
The BBC is going to air an emotional interview with her today. Should be interesting if there's any fallout or not. What's also interesting, and it kind of comes full circle, is that "it was a devastating expose of alleged rape, assault and harassment published by Farrow’s brother, Ronan, the biological son of Allen and Mia Farrow, in The New Yorker last October that helped end Weinstein’s career."
Farrow has repeatedly claimed that Ronan is in fact the biological son of Frank Sinatra, fathered by him while she was in a relationship with Allen.
My gut tells me that Woody is guilty of something. It may be that part of why he escaped prosecution was Farrow's hysterical 'an'(older) woman scorned' reaction and possibly even a sense that she may have been at least passively complicit while she was getting all those juicy roles in his films.
I like his work. Wagner, anyone ?
- Miguelito
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Correct, he adopted two of her siblings but not her as she still had an adopted father. Allen did say these two creepy things though:
I was paternal. She responded to someone paternal. I liked her youth and energy. She deferred to me, and I was happy to give her an enormous amount of decision-making just as a gift and let her take charge of so many things. She flourished.
Oh, well, one of the great experiences of my life has been my wife. She had a very, very difficult upbringing in Korea: She was an orphan on the streets, living out of trash cans and starving as a 6-year-old. And she was picked up and put in an orphanage. And so I've been able to really make her life better. I provided her with enormous opportunities, and she has sparked to them. She's educated herself and has tons of friends and children and got a college degree and went to graduate school, and she has traveled all over with me now.
- ali baba
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Aziz was the victim of revenge porn. It's bizarre that a bad hook up with someone you don't work with or have any professional relationship with is considered fair game for public shaming when it didn't involve and workplace harassment or abuse of power. Especially since he already apologised for his behaviour when 'Grace' brought it up privately.
C'mere c'meye
"Blasted him on Twitter" No.Edwardo wrote:Not-so-widely known bit part actor and comedian Aziz Ansari was shamed, after the fact, by an anonymous date using the pseudonym Grace, who accused him of some vague inappropriate behavior on Twitter with the MeToo hashtag.
The "victim" Grace realized some time soon after that the oral sex they mutually provided each other (twice?) at his house wasn't as consensual as it appeared at the time and then blasted him on Twitter.
An online publisher called Babe ran an oddly formatted recounting of "Grace's" experience after approaching her. He wasn't accused of rape or sexual assault. It raises the issue of coercion and consent considering he kept trying to initiate sex despite her verbal and physical discomfort, then pushing again once he felt he was polite enough to her that she let her guard down:
- The Aziz Ansari story is ordinary. That’s why we have to talk about it https://goo.gl/MPaMRNAt one point, she says she told him, “I don’t want to feel forced because then I’ll hate you, and I’d rather not hate you.” At first, he responded well, saying, “Let’s just chill over here on the couch.” But then, she says, he pointed to his penis with the expectation of oral sex.
Later, she says he suggested they “just chill, but this time with our clothes on” — but once they were dressed, he tried to remove her clothes again. Eventually, she stood up and said she would call herself a car. “I cried the whole ride home,” she told Babe. “At that point I felt violated. That last hour was so out of my hand.”
In a statement, Ansari says that the two “ended up engaging in sexual activity, which by all indications was completely consensual.” When he found out she had been uncomfortable, he said, “I took her words to heart and responded privately after taking the time to process what she had said.”
Unlike many reports that have emerged in the wake of revelations about Harvey Weinstein, Grace’s story is not one of workplace harassment. But what she describes — a man repeatedly pushing sex without noticing (or without caring about) what she wants — is something many, many women have experienced in encounters with men.(...)
Unlike the reports of the many women who have come forward about Weinstein, Grace’s story is not about work. It’s about sex and dating, and about gendered patterns of behavior that are both incredibly common and deeply in need of change.
Despite a growing conversation around enthusiastic consent, most everything in American culture still tells men that they should be pushing for as much sex as possible at all times. The idea that men have more sexual desire than women still goes unchallenged, leading too many men to believe that a lukewarm yes is all they’re ever going to get, because women don’t like sex that much anyway. Boys learn at a young age, from pop culture, their elders, and their peers, that it’s normal to have to convince a woman to have sex, and that repeated small violations of her boundaries are an acceptable way to do so — perhaps even the only way.
As many have pointed out, movies past and present frequently depict men overcoming women’s initial lack of interest through persistent effort — that is, when they’re not mining coercion and voyeurism for laughs.
The presence of stalking in romantic comedies has even given rise to research, with one 2015 study finding that watching a man stalk his “true love” onscreen can make some viewers more accepting of messages like, “An individual who goes to the extremes of stalking must really feel passionately for his/her love interest.” Believing in stereotypes about sex appears to affect men’s perception of sexual situations — a 2017 study found that men who believe social messages like “women generally find being physically forced into sex a real ‘turn-on’” and “when a woman says no, she really means yes” were more likely to perceive women as consenting.
Meanwhile, girls learn from an early age that it is rude to reject boys. They learn to “let them down easily” and never humiliate them. They learn to give other people what they want, and to put their own desires second — especially when it comes to sex. And few girls get any sex education, either at school or from the culture they consume, that encourages them to think about sex in terms of what they actually desire, as opposed to how they will be perceived by others.
Recent abstinence-only curricula have included messages like, “Girls need to be aware they may be able to tell when a kiss is leading to something else. The girl may need to put the brakes on first in order to help the boy,” and, “Girls need to be careful with what they wear, because males are looking! The girl might be thinking fashion, while the boy is thinking sex.”
Even when girls learn comprehensive sex ed, they frequently don’t learn how to ask for what they want, or even how to think about what that is. “We, as a nation, are uncomfortable with women having pleasure,” Lynn Barclay, president and CEO of the American Sexual Health Association, told Bustle in 2015.
The result is that situations like the one Grace describes, in which a man keeps pushing and a woman, though uncomfortable, doesn’t immediately leave, happen all the time. For all the criticism Grace’s story received from Flanagan and others, it also received countless nods of recognition on social media, from women and men. Too many people saw something familiar in the story of a man who badgers a woman for sex, again and again, as though hoping to wear down her resistance.
Creating a culture in which fewer people experience what Grace describes will require better sex ed, that teaches more than just consent, challenges gender roles, and encourages people to put their desires and those of their partners above social expectations. This education should start much earlier than today’s sex ed usually begins, with lessons on topics like empathy and respecting others’ boundaries.
Obviously such an honest, empathetic discussion is waaay above this forum.
Yeah like that one time a white serial sexual harrasser, who bragged about sexually assaulting women and barging into a teens and women's dressing room and also raped a 13 year old and groped multiple other women, ran for the most powerful position in the world and...Oh. Wait.Edwardo wrote:Good thing you aren't a white guy, Aziz. If you were your career would be over. But lucky you get to stay on TV and keep getting blowjobs, you zany Indian-American. But keep in mind all your blowjobs are open to public review and comment.
God you're an idiot.
Which is a shame as it is a good discussion.Nirvana wrote:An online publisher called Babe ran an oddly formatted recounting of "Grace's" experience after approaching her. He wasn't accused of rape or sexual assault. It raises the issue of coercion and consent considering he kept trying to initiate sex despite her verbal and physical discomfort, then pushing again once he felt he was polite enough to her that she let her guard down:
- The Aziz Ansari story is ordinary. That’s why we have to talk about it https://goo.gl/MPaMRN
Obviously such an honest, empathetic discussion is waaay above this forum.
She didn't have to go back to his place after the first date, didn't need to get naked, didn't need to have sex etc etc. At any time she could have said no or walked away but she choose not to. And now anonymously blames someone else in the media for her own bad decisions.
Why on earth do women think it is perfectly fine to blame men for their own shortcomings?
Good thing God Emperor Trump won the elections or we would have his wife in the oval officeYeah like that one time a white serial sexual harrasser, who bragged about sexually assaulting women and barging into a teens and women's dressing room and also raped a 13 year old and groped multiple other women, ran for the most powerful position in the world and...Oh. Wait.Edwardo wrote:Good thing you aren't a white guy, Aziz. If you were your career would be over. But lucky you get to stay on TV and keep getting blowjobs, you zany Indian-American. But keep in mind all your blowjobs are open to public review and comment.
God you're an idiot.
None but ourselves can free our mind.
Who cares if she went back to his place? What are you implying?Visser wrote:She didn't have to go back to his place after the first date, didn't need to get naked, didn't need to have sex etc etc. At any time she could have said no or walked away but she choose not to.
That she legally consented to sexual activity isn't the issue. And you know that. Or if you don't, well, you're probably somebody's Aziz Ansari.
Did you even read the story?And now anonymously blames someone else in the media for her own bad decisions.
He apologized to her, and then he publicly emphasized that it was technically consent. Why did he do both those things? Cause he knew exactly what he was doing. He just had hoped she didn't.
Why on earth do men think it is perfectly fine to ignore women's boundaries and manipulatively pester them into sex just because it's not breaking the law?Why on earth do women think it is perfectly fine to blame men for their own shortcomings?
Right. Cause Clinton is responsible for her husband's actions but 45 and Aziz Ansari aren't responsible for their own. Got it.Good thing God Emperor Trump won the elections or we would have his wife in the oval office
Though kudos for inadvertently dropping another white guy example I guess...
Also, though I kind of hesitate to share it since these threads are fucking trash and I anticipate the usual excruciating apologism, but I saw no one mention that some of Larry Nassar's victims confronted him at sentencing -
Victims confront Larry Nassar in court: 'Little girls don't stay little forever'
http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/16/us/larry- ... index.html
- Hot_Pink_Urinal_Mint
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Nirvana, this isn't the victim Olympics. It's 2018 and women in western countries have agency. If you're uncomfortable in a situation then leave. Simple.
We're going to disagree here but I would argue that the majority of "normal women" like to be seduced by men and the feminzation of men is a total turn off. Male Feminists make me shudder.
I agree mostly with the above quote and I wonder how you feel about MtF transgenders and the Cotton Ceiling.Meanwhile, girls learn from an early age that it is rude to reject boys. They learn to “let them down easily” and never humiliate them. They learn to give other people what they want, and to put their own desires second — especially when it comes to sex.
We're going to disagree here but I would argue that the majority of "normal women" like to be seduced by men and the feminzation of men is a total turn off. Male Feminists make me shudder.
HPUM, this isn't the victim Olympics. It's 2018 and men in western countries have agency. If a date is uncomfortable because you're deliberately ignoring their boundaries to see how far you can push in a situation then stop. Simple.Hot_Pink_Urinal_Mint wrote:Nirvana, this isn't the victim Olympics. It's 2018 and women in western countries have agency. If you're uncomfortable in a situation then leave. Simple.
Funny thing is, even if she had left when he first disrespected her boundaries, he still would have been the one who did the shitty thing. Then what would it be? She shouldn't have gone to his house? Pffft.
Oh wait, someone already said that.
Seriously, everyone stay ignoring the actual issue.
I agree mostly with the above quote and I wonder how you feel about MtF transgenders and the Cotton Ceiling.
The quote (and link in the article) was there to examine the situation within it's cultural backdrop.
If you want to know what I think about the topic then start a thread about it. If it doesn't devolve into a transphobic dumpster fire then maybe I'll join. Being a ciswoman I'm not sure how useful I could be though.
"Normal women"?We're going to disagree here but I would argue that the majority of "normal women" like to be seduced by men and the feminzation of men is a total turn off. Male Feminists make me shudder.
Not sure what seduction or "feminization of men" has to do with ignoring someone's boundaries, and I don't really care what turns you on or off.
ETA - Christ. Are you trying to say "real men" don't respect boundaries, or that seduction requires ignoring someone's? My ex with whom I'm still friends is big and muscular, can fix cars and everything around the house, held a jackhamner above his head for a living and has a neck tattoo that says 'Sinner.' So probably what one would consider "traditionally masculine" heterosexual cisman.
Want to know what he's never done? Ignored my boundaries.
Last edited by Nirvana on Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Nirvana,
Have you ever watched How I Met Your Mother? All of the bad things that Barney did aside, there was one episode titled "The Naked Man". Essentially, when the man realized the first date wasn't going well, and the woman was in the other room, the man would put his chips all in, and get naked. The woman would return and see a naked man standing there (maybe in a humorous pose). She'd say "wtf!", and the man would give a smile and a "come on". The woman would either laugh and say, whatever, fuck it let's do it, or she would freak out and kick him out. Success rate was two out of three.
Now, that's pretty funny. It's really harmless in the long run, you either have sex or say goodbye. But, nowadays, is the Naked Man a heinous sexual offense?
Genuine question. Am I allowed to do the Naked Man on a date, or no?
Have you ever watched How I Met Your Mother? All of the bad things that Barney did aside, there was one episode titled "The Naked Man". Essentially, when the man realized the first date wasn't going well, and the woman was in the other room, the man would put his chips all in, and get naked. The woman would return and see a naked man standing there (maybe in a humorous pose). She'd say "wtf!", and the man would give a smile and a "come on". The woman would either laugh and say, whatever, fuck it let's do it, or she would freak out and kick him out. Success rate was two out of three.
Now, that's pretty funny. It's really harmless in the long run, you either have sex or say goodbye. But, nowadays, is the Naked Man a heinous sexual offense?
Genuine question. Am I allowed to do the Naked Man on a date, or no?
- Hot_Pink_Urinal_Mint
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Normal women are women who are not third wave/fourth wave feminists. They are women who have a grip on reality, are not narcissistic and mistakenly entitled. Third wave/fourth wave feminists are seriously damaging what previous generations of women/feminists have accomplished.Nirvana wrote: "Normal women"?
By encouraging young women to re-define the Aziz situation as sexual assault you do a great disservice to women who have suffered serious sexual assault.
And by the way, the cotton ceiling and MtF transgenders appropriating women's spaces and bodies has everything to do with male privilege, boundaries and women being socialized to be agreeable.
- spitthedog
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"I don't care what the people are thinking, i ain't drunk i'm just drinking"
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