That's amazing, I always thought he made his money by developing operating systems that are bundled with PCs and sell in vast numbers, and other stuff like the MS Office suite that seems to have become the industry standard for nearly every document used in offices worldwide? How many billion did he get from this IBM deal?Oldnews wrote:I don't know about the other two, but Gates made his money by stealing dos off his mate and selling it to IBM. He's what's known as a shyster.Edwardo wrote:Bill Gates: $86 billion
Capitalism
- Lucky Lucan
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Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
Which brings up monopoly again. Monopolies aren't absolute, there are degrees of "monopoly power", and I would consider the old win-tel "standard" to have had quite a bit of it, and it pretty much did flow from the ibm deal.Lucky Lucan wrote:That's amazing, I always thought he made his money by developing operating systems that are bundled with PCs and sell in vast numbers, and other stuff like the MS Office suite that seems to have become the industry standard for nearly every document used in offices worldwide? How many billion did he get from this IBM deal?Oldnews wrote:I don't know about the other two, but Gates made his money by stealing dos off his mate and selling it to IBM. He's what's known as a shyster.Edwardo wrote:Bill Gates: $86 billion
Now it's google, facebook, amazon, all benefiting from natural network effects.
Buffett largely made his money by borrowing cheaply (insurance companies) and riding the asset-inflation wave (simply buy the best companies when they're cheap). Of course he (and the others we're talking about) were smart enough to spot the opportunity, but still.
'fettering' feral capitalism has to be done by designing the system it operates in, the rules it has to follow; it has to be systematic, otherwise you just get cronyism, chavez/maduro, putin, sen, et al.
Last edited by electron on Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:39 am, edited 3 times in total.
- vladimir
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You are ignorant wrt Chavez and Venezuela. He tried to nationalise his country's resources for the benefit of his own people (a horrible idea to Americans, I know), and the schmucks decided that a small country like his had to be taught a lesson, in case other small countries tried this ridiculous idea. Seriously, if you can't see this, perhaps you should read and watch non-Murdoch media occasionally. Gaddafi and Hussein tried it, too. How did the US react?Edwardo wrote:Since "unfettered capitalism" is the objection, then come forth with who should do the "fettering"? Caps on annual income? Caps on accumulated wealth? Enforced by politicians via their military henchmen under threat of jail or confiscation?
Where have we seen this brilliant plan enacted before?
The richest 1% of the US population already pay over 50% of the federal income taxes collected each year.
wrt the military: Ah, so now the guys that enable and enrich the unfettered capitalism have 'military henchmen' ? So the illegal and thieving wars that the DoD conduct to enrich the few are kosher, but if they try and enforce fair taxation on US citizens for the greater good they suddenly become 'military henchmen'.
The US govt has consistently protected and aided the rich by reducing taxes and creating loopholes. And since you're such a patriot, look at all the jobs lost by corporations relocating to China etc. Can we have a source for your tax figure?
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
Typical idiotic vladimir strawman argument. Nobody remotely suggested any such thing. Followed by the typical vladimir "you only watch Fox News" nonsense for the billionth time.vladimir wrote: So the illegal and thieving wars that the DoD conduct to enrich the few are kosher,
And of course in vladimir world, the US is to blame for Venezuela's economic predicament. It has nothing to do with lack of reinvestment by Chavez and Maduro in their own oil sector, or their failure to divest away from petroleum as their only source of revenue, or lack of demand for their super heavy crude that costs buyers a fortune to refine into usable products, or the worldwide oil glut for the past 10 years as shale fracking in the US became economically viable and oil sanctions on Iran were lifted.
"The final straw actually involved my mortal enemy vladimir, who you may or may not know is an insufferable, overposting asshat."
- badboybubby
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'fettering' feral capitalism has to be done by designing the system it operates in, the rules it has to follow; it has to be systematic, otherwise you just get cronyism, chavez/maduro, putin, sen, et al.[/quote]electron wrote:
i think so...and where those rules are democratically applied you get the healthiest societies...i'm sure that's what some of the original proponents of capitalism had in mind...
our thinking tends to be polarizing because the historical examples are often poor...when i played football i had no problem with a referee (providing he was fair)...and i think it's a bit like that in society...
He's been in his room 35 years...time to let him out!
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vladimir wrote:You are ignorant wrt Chavez and Venezuela. He tried to nationalise his country's resources for the benefit of his own people (a horrible idea to Americans, I know), and the schmucks decided that a small country like his had to be taught a lesson, in case other small countries tried this ridiculous idea. Seriously, if you can't see this, perhaps you should read and watch non-Murdoch media occasionally. Gaddafi and Hussein tried it, too. How did the US react?Edwardo wrote:Since "unfettered capitalism" is the objection, then come forth with who should do the "fettering"? Caps on annual income? Caps on accumulated wealth? Enforced by politicians via their military henchmen under threat of jail or confiscation?
Where have we seen this brilliant plan enacted before?
The richest 1% of the US population already pay over 50% of the federal income taxes collected each year.
wrt the military: Ah, so now the guys that enable and enrich the unfettered capitalism have 'military henchmen' ? So the illegal and thieving wars that the DoD conduct to enrich the few are kosher, but if they try and enforce fair taxation on US citizens for the greater good they suddenly become 'military henchmen'.
The US govt has consistently protected and aided the rich by reducing taxes and creating loopholes. And since you're such a patriot, look at all the jobs lost by corporations relocating to China etc. Can we have a source for your tax figure?
Anyone who doesn't like Capitalism is a pathetic loser. God bless the USA and no place else.
- vladimir
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Indeed you did. You support US capitalism, which relies heavily on the military-industrial complex for income and resource acquisition. There is an irrefutable link.Edwardo wrote:Typical idiotic vladimir strawman argument. Nobody remotely suggested any such thing. Followed by the typical vladimir "you only watch Fox News" nonsense for the billionth time.vladimir wrote: So the illegal and thieving wars that the DoD conduct to enrich the few are kosher,
Then you call them 'military henchmen' which everybody understands as a negative connotation.
Venezuela contributed to their own problems certainly, but their face was rubbed in it deliberately and harshly. You may remember at one stage the bully state was threatening invasion/intervention. The pattern that was used in Iraq, Libya and Syria, but you don't wish to acknowledge that.Edwardo wrote:And of course in vladimir world, the US is to blame for Venezuela's economic predicament. It has nothing to do with lack of reinvestment by Chavez and Maduro in their own oil sector, or their failure to divest away from petroleum as their only source of revenue, or lack of demand for their super heavy crude that costs buyers a fortune to refine into usable products, or the worldwide oil glut for the past 10 years as shale fracking in the US became economically viable and oil sanctions on Iran were lifted.
You likewise make out it's impossible that it had anything to do with the most powerful nation on the planet, one with a history of aggressive economic interventions, but everybody knows it's not only possible but probable...but maybe Trump was talking about holidaying there, right?
I don't know who's dumber, your or that redneck, really.
Is this competition month?
Talking of strawman arguments, how about we discuss the issue, which is the inherent instability and lack of ethics of a situation where 3 businessmen are worth so much more than many countries. Do you think you can do that?(rhetorical question, btw)
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
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America and capitalism aren't the same thing. Just like democracy and freedom aren't, or North Korea and communism.
The US isn't the gold standard for free market capitalism.
A truly free market doesn't exist, but Hong Kong or Singapore would be the best examples, the US isn't even close to free on any measure.
Sent from my VTR-L29 using Tapatalk
The US isn't the gold standard for free market capitalism.
A truly free market doesn't exist, but Hong Kong or Singapore would be the best examples, the US isn't even close to free on any measure.
Sent from my VTR-L29 using Tapatalk
- vladimir
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As one highly-respected poster on here pointed out, Edwardo is probably scobienz/alan clarke/bendix/gibbon arms/assorted other trolls
I have it on good authority that he is constantly reading the forum and whingeing about posts that don't glorify Margaret Thatcher and the capitalist system that forced him to see better employment in Cambodia: VS Naipaul had a phrase for it.
However, I digress...
Still waiting for geniuses to explain why huge income disparities are good for either society or political stability.
Not holding my neo-democratic socialist breath.
I have it on good authority that he is constantly reading the forum and whingeing about posts that don't glorify Margaret Thatcher and the capitalist system that forced him to see better employment in Cambodia: VS Naipaul had a phrase for it.
However, I digress...
Still waiting for geniuses to explain why huge income disparities are good for either society or political stability.
Not holding my neo-democratic socialist breath.
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
- springrain
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It's amusing to see some of the responses. If only folk would look at the stories behind the stories we might see some sinister stuff. But no, folk are still taken in by the ' look at the charitable works these folk do' angle and so they continue to perpetrate their lies virtually unchallenged.
The so-called 'charities' are blameless aren't they? Why, they do so much 'good' don't they?
The so-called 'charities' are blameless aren't they? Why, they do so much 'good' don't they?
'History is a set of lies agreed upon.'
Attributed to Napoleon
Attributed to Napoleon
- vladimir
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Steal a billion, donate 1% to charity, and you're a saint. Never mind that it's tax-deductible and a whitewashing process.
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
Vladimir can't accept that some people are wealthy, powerful, well-respected, talented, hard-working AND do phenomenal charitable works that improve the lives of millions. He can't relate to any of those things in his sad, miserable life of envy and regret in which he has accomplished nothing.
"The final straw actually involved my mortal enemy vladimir, who you may or may not know is an insufferable, overposting asshat."
- Lucky Lucan
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Some people grow up in bad circumstances and never get a chance. Others grow up in similar circumstances and yet are able to do very well. There are people who get the best chances in life and fuck the whole thing up. Dynasties rise and fall.
There is some terrible disparity in the world and you are far more likely to do well if you are born in the right place. However much of it is just human condition. Smart decisions, determination and discipline play a big part.
There are tycoons in Cambodia who started off by riding a bicycle up to the Thai border in 1979 just to buy a few pens or whatever was in short supply here at the time, riding back to Phnom Penh, making a small profit and then just doing it all over again until they had enough to do it larger. I'm constantly broke as fuck but I put that down to my bad decisions rather than blaming it on any outside system.
There is some terrible disparity in the world and you are far more likely to do well if you are born in the right place. However much of it is just human condition. Smart decisions, determination and discipline play a big part.
There are tycoons in Cambodia who started off by riding a bicycle up to the Thai border in 1979 just to buy a few pens or whatever was in short supply here at the time, riding back to Phnom Penh, making a small profit and then just doing it all over again until they had enough to do it larger. I'm constantly broke as fuck but I put that down to my bad decisions rather than blaming it on any outside system.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.