With the rise of protectionism, remembering Sir Robert Peel.
Trump’s break with free trade is reminiscent of a similar about face that culminated almost exactly 170 years ago, when a British politician made a similarly abrupt policy reversal—albeit in the opposite direction—and both lost his job and condemned his party to nearly three decades in the political wilderness.
Sir Robert Peel was elected prime minister at the British general election of 1841. Peel’s Conservative Party won a clear majority of both the popular vote and seats in Parliament. The Conservatives were staunch proponents of the Corn Laws, decades-old legislation that imposed tariffs on imported grain. https://blog.oup.com/2016/07/corn-laws- ... ree-trade/
Although England regulated prices of corn since the seventeenth century, the Corn Laws to which people in the nineteenth century refer originated in 1815. At the end of the French Wars that year Parliament passed legislation that stated that no foreign corn could be imported into Britain until domestic corn cost 80/- per quarter. The high price caused the cost of food to increase and consequently depressed the domestic market for manufactured goods because people spent the bulk of their earnings on food rather than commodities.
The Corn Laws also caused great distress among the working classes in the towns. These people were unable to grow their own food and had to pay the high prices in order to stay alive. Since the vast majority of voters and Members of Parliament were landowners, the government was unwilling to reconsider the new legislation in order to help the economy, the poor or the manufacturers who laid off workers in times of restricted trade.
The Anti-Corn Law Association was set up in London in 1836 but had little success there; it was re-formed in 1838 in Manchester and in 1839 was re-named the Anti-Corn-Law League (ACLL). The members of this movement were mainly middle-class manufacturers, merchants, bankers and traders. They wanted the Corn Laws to be repealed so that they could sell more goods both in Britain and overseas. The keystone of the protectionist system was thought to be the Corn Laws: once they were repealed, the ACLL thought that free trade would follow. The ACLL headed a nation-wide campaign for the repeal of the Corn Laws which ended in success in 1846 when the Prime Minister, Sir Robert Peel repealed the legislation.http://www.victorianweb.org/history/cornlaws1.html
Trump’s efforts to sink free trade fly in the face of both economic theory and historical experience. Some economic sectors will, of course, be hurt by free trade—theory and history are clear on that point—however, there is overwhelming evidence that free trade has a net positive effect on the economy as a whole. This evidence has not deterred Trump from currying favor with those who have been—or believe themselves to have been–hurt by free trade and demand a return to protectionism. If Trump succeeds in rolling back free trade, he will make the United States—and the rest of the world—poorer.https://blog.oup.com/2016/07/corn-laws- ... ree-trade/
Peel Tower stands on the edge of the plateau above Holcombe Village. It commemorates the famous Conservative politician Sir Robert Peel (1788-1850), who was born in Bury. As Home Secretary he founded the Police force, and in 1846 in his second term as Prime Minister he joined with the Whigs and the Radicals to repeal the Corn Laws. These were designed to protect British agriculture and the ostensible reason for their abolition (and the reason for Peel’s popularity) was to lower grain prices and relieve the famine in Ireland. http://holcombevillagelancs.org.uk/?page_id=40
Sir Robert Peel, the corn laws and Donald Trump.
As I recall, Trump has called for 100% free trade, with no tariffs on anything. As that doesn't yet exist (and never will), since ALL countries and trading blocs impose some high tariffs to protect their own cherry-picked domestic industries, Trump is finally doing the same for the US. The EU, especially fucking Germany, and China are the biggest hypocrites on this issue on the planet. Anyone who thinks the EU or China is really for "free and fair trade" is either full of shit or incredibly stupid or both.
Even the Germans understand this while still publicly condemning others for it. Here is a 2018 documentary by DW TV, the German public TV station, called A Game of No Rules, that calls out the glaring hypocrisy. Keep in mind it's DW TV, so it's the most boring documentary ever, but it makes the point clearly and accurately.
https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/game-no-rules/
Even the Germans understand this while still publicly condemning others for it. Here is a 2018 documentary by DW TV, the German public TV station, called A Game of No Rules, that calls out the glaring hypocrisy. Keep in mind it's DW TV, so it's the most boring documentary ever, but it makes the point clearly and accurately.
https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/game-no-rules/
- spitthedog
- Is the World Outside still there ?
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I reckon all these leaders are just a bunch of pissheads.
"I don't care what the people are thinking, i ain't drunk i'm just drinking"
spitthedog wrote:I reckon all these leaders are just a bunch of pissheads.
You're not wrong about Juncker. I lived in Luxembourg from 2005-10, he was PM. As the population of the Grand Duchy was 500,000 at that time (45% of that non-'burgers), it was quite common to see him out and about, smoking away and knocking back wine or drepps.
He was proud of being an alkie and made no attempts to hide it, as it's quite the status symbol there, retired Luxembourgers at the cafe knocking back brandies with their 7am coffees would give any 172 expat a good hard schooling.
Massive stalker
I'm actually on the fence about the China-US tariffs issue. One the one side, I want to see a dramatic increase of manufactured goods made in the US and sold to China to balance the massive trade deficit, but at the same time I really don't want the Chinese to slap tariffs on their exported "Homemade, amateur Chinese MILF" porn freely available online, because that would just be a travesty for all involved. THAT would cause a new Great Depression, of another sort.
- Lucky Lucan
- K440 Knight Captain
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Is that even feasible any more? The way I see it the Chinese are going to beat you on price. Lower salaries, less rigid environmental laws, a huge mobile and skilled workforce and a whole lot of other factors make it difficult to imagine. We used to laugh at stuff that had "Made in China" or "Made in Hong Kong" on it, now all the top brands are being manufactured there.McPhisto wrote:I want to see a dramatic increase of manufactured goods made in the US and sold to China...
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
- springrain
- I'm on 3000; na na, na na na
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This statement appeared literally a few minutes ago on Marketwatch:
U.S. files WTO complaints against EU, China, Canada for responding to steel tariffs
Published: July 16, 2018 10:41 a.m. ET
By
STEVE
GOLDSTEIN
D.C. BUREAU CHIEF
The United States on Monday launched separate disputes at the World Trade Organization against China, the European Union, Canada, Mexico and Turkey. "The U.S. steel and aluminum duties imposed by President Trump earlier this year are justified under international agreements the United States and its trading partners have approved. However, retaliatory duties on U.S. exports imposed by China, the EU, Canada, Mexico and Turkey are completely without justification under international rules," the U.S. Trade Representative said in a statement.
It just shows the strange thinking behind the potential trade war (for it is still potential at this stage.) How can increased steel duties be 'justified' while retaliatory measures are not? Surely, justification comes only from one side. By its very nature, protectionism must be one-sided. To claim this is somehow fair is daft, it seems to me.
Ironically, on the beeb's business page, I've just read this:
China should make its economy more open to foreign firms, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker has said while on a visit to Beijing.
Mr Juncker was accompanied by the President of the European Council, Donald Tusk, who warned that worsening trade tensions could lead to conflict.
They were met by Chinese Premier Li Keqiang, who stressed the need to uphold free trade.
Meanwhile, China has filed an official complaint against new US trade tariffs.
So the EU is urging China to be less protectionist while the EU is being protectionist toward the US. Another irony is that some form of protectionism is hailed as, wait for it 'Free Trade'. It's all nuts.
Sources:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-fi ... 2018-07-16
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44849780
U.S. files WTO complaints against EU, China, Canada for responding to steel tariffs
Published: July 16, 2018 10:41 a.m. ET
By
STEVE
GOLDSTEIN
D.C. BUREAU CHIEF
The United States on Monday launched separate disputes at the World Trade Organization against China, the European Union, Canada, Mexico and Turkey. "The U.S. steel and aluminum duties imposed by President Trump earlier this year are justified under international agreements the United States and its trading partners have approved. However, retaliatory duties on U.S. exports imposed by China, the EU, Canada, Mexico and Turkey are completely without justification under international rules," the U.S. Trade Representative said in a statement.
It just shows the strange thinking behind the potential trade war (for it is still potential at this stage.) How can increased steel duties be 'justified' while retaliatory measures are not? Surely, justification comes only from one side. By its very nature, protectionism must be one-sided. To claim this is somehow fair is daft, it seems to me.
Ironically, on the beeb's business page, I've just read this:
China should make its economy more open to foreign firms, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker has said while on a visit to Beijing.
Mr Juncker was accompanied by the President of the European Council, Donald Tusk, who warned that worsening trade tensions could lead to conflict.
They were met by Chinese Premier Li Keqiang, who stressed the need to uphold free trade.
Meanwhile, China has filed an official complaint against new US trade tariffs.
So the EU is urging China to be less protectionist while the EU is being protectionist toward the US. Another irony is that some form of protectionism is hailed as, wait for it 'Free Trade'. It's all nuts.
Sources:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-fi ... 2018-07-16
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44849780
'History is a set of lies agreed upon.'
Attributed to Napoleon
Attributed to Napoleon
Yep, it's all crap. Total distortions of the truth to suit one's home audience. Every nation has to try to protect domestic markets and jobs, while trying to increase exports. Accusing Trump of 'starting a trade war' is not the issue. That war was lost by the US 30 years ago. China and the EU bitch slapped the US worker and outmaneuvered (or worse) US politicians asleep at the helm. It was/is not the responsibility of China and the EU to look after US domestic worker interests. Congratulations to them. They were way smarter than our US fuckwit leaders and those who voted for them. But to kvetch about Trump disrupting the status quo, as if the status quo has ever been "free and fair", is such hypocritical bullshit and fear mongering. The US CAN win a trade war, because we have a massive trade deficit. Easy as that. There will inevitably be some high profile losers, but the Boeings and Caterpillars are outliers. We export very little other manufactured goods abroad anymore, and the Chinese are feverishly working on coming up with their own domestic high-tech airline manufacturing and heavy equipment manufacturing anyway. The writing is on the wall, but it doesn't mean the US has to play that game anymore now.springrain wrote:This statement appeared literally a few minutes ago on Marketwatch:
U.S. files WTO complaints against EU, China, Canada for responding to steel tariffs
Published: July 16, 2018 10:41 a.m. ET
By
STEVE
GOLDSTEIN
D.C. BUREAU CHIEF
The United States on Monday launched separate disputes at the World Trade Organization against China, the European Union, Canada, Mexico and Turkey. "The U.S. steel and aluminum duties imposed by President Trump earlier this year are justified under international agreements the United States and its trading partners have approved. However, retaliatory duties on U.S. exports imposed by China, the EU, Canada, Mexico and Turkey are completely without justification under international rules," the U.S. Trade Representative said in a statement.
It just shows the strange thinking behind the potential trade war (for it is still potential at this stage.) How can increased steel duties be 'justified' while retaliatory measures are not? Surely, justification comes only from one side. By its very nature, protectionism must be one-sided. To claim this is somehow fair is daft, it seems to me.
Ironically, on the beeb's business page, I've just read this:
China should make its economy more open to foreign firms, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker has said while on a visit to Beijing.
Mr Juncker was accompanied by the President of the European Council, Donald Tusk, who warned that worsening trade tensions could lead to conflict.
They were met by Chinese Premier Li Keqiang, who stressed the need to uphold free trade.
Meanwhile, China has filed an official complaint against new US trade tariffs.
So the EU is urging China to be less protectionist while the EU is being protectionist toward the US. Another irony is that some form of protectionism is hailed as, wait for it 'Free Trade'. It's all nuts.
Sources:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-fi ... 2018-07-16
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44849780
Last edited by McPhisto on Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Until the Chinese are consumers of all their manufactured goods, then yes, a reversal of some manufacturing activity is feasible. They still need us much more than we need them. Manufacturing will never be what is was in the US, as that ship has long since sailed, but any returned manufacturing jobs are a boon to US finances, as it gets people off government programs and into the tax base again...even as that also dramatically ramps up domestic price inflation. What good are cheap Chinese goods to someone with no income? The status quo has produced such wealth disparity because the poorer folks in the US lost their decent paying manufacturing jobs and now have to work at fucking Walmart selling those cheaply imported Chinese goods to their equally poor neighbors for minimum wage.Lucky Lucan wrote:Is that even feasible any more? The way I see it the Chinese are going to beat you on price. Lower salaries, less rigid environmental laws, a huge mobile and skilled workforce and a whole lot of other factors make it difficult to imagine. We used to laugh at stuff that had "Made in China" or "Made in Hong Kong" on it, now all the top brands are being manufactured there.McPhisto wrote:I want to see a dramatic increase of manufactured goods made in the US and sold to China...
EU and Japan reach free trade deal
The European Union and Japan have formally agreed an outline free-trade deal. The agreement paves the way for trading in goods without tariff barriers between two of the world's biggest economic areas. However, few specific details are known and a full, workable agreement may take some time. Two of the most important sectors are Japanese cars and, for Europe, EU farming goods into Japan.
EU-Japan negotiations began in 2012 then stalled. It was Donald Trump's election, and the inward turn America is taking, that spurred the EU and Japan to overcome their differences. Both want to show domestic audiences they can deliver signature deals that promise new economic opportunities.
They also want to send a clear message internationally that the EU and Japan, highly-developed democracies, remain committed to a liberal, free-trading, rules-based world, and they will seek to shape it even if the US won't.
Mr Tusk also said the deal countered the argument put forward by some of those in favour of Brexit that the EU was unable to promote free trade: "Although some are saying that the time of isolationism and disintegration is coming again, we are demonstrating that this is not the case." https://www.bbc.com/news/business-40520218
The European Union and Japan have formally agreed an outline free-trade deal. The agreement paves the way for trading in goods without tariff barriers between two of the world's biggest economic areas. However, few specific details are known and a full, workable agreement may take some time. Two of the most important sectors are Japanese cars and, for Europe, EU farming goods into Japan.
EU-Japan negotiations began in 2012 then stalled. It was Donald Trump's election, and the inward turn America is taking, that spurred the EU and Japan to overcome their differences. Both want to show domestic audiences they can deliver signature deals that promise new economic opportunities.
They also want to send a clear message internationally that the EU and Japan, highly-developed democracies, remain committed to a liberal, free-trading, rules-based world, and they will seek to shape it even if the US won't.
Mr Tusk also said the deal countered the argument put forward by some of those in favour of Brexit that the EU was unable to promote free trade: "Although some are saying that the time of isolationism and disintegration is coming again, we are demonstrating that this is not the case." https://www.bbc.com/news/business-40520218
- springrain
- I'm on 3000; na na, na na na
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You can't trust anything Juncker & Tusk are involved in.
'History is a set of lies agreed upon.'
Attributed to Napoleon
Attributed to Napoleon
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