Tory govt at it again.
- Fuzzhead22
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Setting aside the ethics, war in the middle east raises oil prices. The Saudis buying our arms and then arming & funding isis causes war, helps with their conflict with IranFuzzhead22 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:21 pmarms sales to Saudi are good, as it brings in a lot of cash to the UK
I am not sure that makes us richer. Rising oil prices affect every person in the UK, selling arms really doesn't make a difference.
- springrain
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After a pause for thought, perhaps Fuzzhead is being ironic. If not:Fuzzhead22 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:21 pmarms sales to Saudi are good, as it brings in a lot of cash to the UK
And who do you think in the UK 'benefits' from this 'cash'? You? Joe Soap? The Gotha-Saxe-Coburg family who sit on 'our' throne? The very same group of families who funded you-know-who through Shell Oil (major shareholder: the 'Royal' house of Holland) and even provided the fuel for you-know-who's tanks and trucks to motor into Holland on May 10th, 1940?
Yes, War is, indeed, a racket.
Last edited by springrain on Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'History is a set of lies agreed upon.'
Attributed to Napoleon
Attributed to Napoleon
- TheGrimReaper
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Well Eikroy (reincarnation of Aseriousman), you obviously do not like the Tories or Johnson but in you expert opinion, who is the best person to take us out of the EU?EIKROY wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:08 pmSo Bojo will stand up to the E U bullies will he. I think it may go something like this. " Shooting myself in the foot is a bad idea. But....... It is very important to keep the option of shooting myself in the foot on the table. The best way of not shooting myself in the foot is to prepare to shoot myself in the foot. Both feet if necessary. Take that E U 27. Just remember WE started the fire not the E U.
And as for WE started it, I take it you are not a fan of democracy. Also, the insults all originated in Brussels with the general theme of "we must punish the UK for daring to be democratic and upsetting our view of a politically integrated EU".
Sleep, those little slices of death — how I loathe them.
No one will take us out of the EU because NO ONE has got the Bollocks to go ahead with it. The EU is NOT undemocratic or looking to take over ; it has a better form of democracy than the UK or USA BECAUSE the veto means every treaty change has to make every member state BETTER off.
Lets kill the notion of the EU federalisation once and for all. The UE does not want a army; it has no land for bases, citizens of it's own, generals to run or budget for arms. EU members merely want mutual co-ordination so that, if any member is attacked, there is a legal basis to come to there defence and we don't shoot our own people.
There are no countries waiting to do deals that the EU doesn't already have deals with or will shortly. The EU has more deals than any other trade bloc. 95% + of the UK exports are either with the EU or EU FTAs. the EU even has 40 + sector-specific deals with the USA.
The UK cannot do better trade deals, nor do them faster than the EU. In trade the market and whether its citizens can afford your product and services. The EU is 10% the size of the UK with the most valuable market on the planet.
British exporters aren't waiting for the UK to recreate the trade deals the EU already has. They are quietly moving assets, resources and finally jobs to where they still have access to the trade deals they rely on. Call it ' diesel ' or what you like. IT'S STILL JOBS GONE.
In years to come, brexit ( if it happens ) will be taught in history and economics classes as the fastest destruction of a economy without war ever.
THIS IS A UTTER DISGRACE
Tory Britain update
Pensions - percentage of average earnings
NETHERLANDS - 100.6%
PORTUGAL - 94.9%
ITALY - 93.2%
AUSTRIA - 91.8%
SPAIN - 81.8%
OECD average - 62.9%
UK - 29%
Oh !1 Back on the subject of democracy. Have you been watching the Tory Leadership Shitshow ?????.
Lets kill the notion of the EU federalisation once and for all. The UE does not want a army; it has no land for bases, citizens of it's own, generals to run or budget for arms. EU members merely want mutual co-ordination so that, if any member is attacked, there is a legal basis to come to there defence and we don't shoot our own people.
There are no countries waiting to do deals that the EU doesn't already have deals with or will shortly. The EU has more deals than any other trade bloc. 95% + of the UK exports are either with the EU or EU FTAs. the EU even has 40 + sector-specific deals with the USA.
The UK cannot do better trade deals, nor do them faster than the EU. In trade the market and whether its citizens can afford your product and services. The EU is 10% the size of the UK with the most valuable market on the planet.
British exporters aren't waiting for the UK to recreate the trade deals the EU already has. They are quietly moving assets, resources and finally jobs to where they still have access to the trade deals they rely on. Call it ' diesel ' or what you like. IT'S STILL JOBS GONE.
In years to come, brexit ( if it happens ) will be taught in history and economics classes as the fastest destruction of a economy without war ever.
THIS IS A UTTER DISGRACE
Tory Britain update
Pensions - percentage of average earnings
NETHERLANDS - 100.6%
PORTUGAL - 94.9%
ITALY - 93.2%
AUSTRIA - 91.8%
SPAIN - 81.8%
OECD average - 62.9%
UK - 29%
Oh !1 Back on the subject of democracy. Have you been watching the Tory Leadership Shitshow ?????.
- TheGrimReaper
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EIKROY/Aseriousman/YorkieEIKROY wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:57 pmLets kill the notion of the EU federalisation once and for all. The UE does not want a army; it has no land for bases, citizens of it's own, generals to run or budget for arms. EU members merely want mutual co-ordination so that, if any member is attacked, there is a legal basis to come to there defence and we don't shoot our own people.
You write so much trash that I only have to respond to one item or we will be here all day shooting you down in flames.
EU Army
https://www.theweek.co.uk/98495/fact-ch ... super-army
As we were taught in school
Q.E.D or for those who did not study Latin...quod erat demonstrandum........Which was to be demonstrated or in modern vernacular..... That which is proven.
Sleep, those little slices of death — how I loathe them.
We now have a Tory Shitshow of a bloke who couldn't remember his wife is Chinese, against the bloke who needs reminding how many children he's fathered.
Born leaders these Eton, Charterhouse Oxford chaps.
At least it's a step up from confusing Aston Villa with West Ham.
But not to worry !!!. we now have MEP's Annunziata Rees-Mogg and Ann Widdecombe representing the UK in Brussels.
What a time to be alive !!!.
Born leaders these Eton, Charterhouse Oxford chaps.
At least it's a step up from confusing Aston Villa with West Ham.
But not to worry !!!. we now have MEP's Annunziata Rees-Mogg and Ann Widdecombe representing the UK in Brussels.
What a time to be alive !!!.
- Fuzzhead22
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yep, it's looking good for Boris! Just hope remainer Hunt doesn't get in the way
personally, I prefered Raab as he seemed the most hardcore of the lot, but hey, Boris wil do!
Glad the fuckwit Rory Stewart was hammered early on
- TheGrimReaper
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And here we have the reincarnation of Aseriousman/Yorkie spouting his usual inflammatory remarks rather than sticking to a useful discussion.EIKROY wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:55 pmWe now have a Tory Shitshow of a bloke who couldn't remember his wife is Chinese, against the bloke who needs reminding how many children he's fathered.
Born leaders these Eton, Charterhouse Oxford chaps.
At least it's a step up from confusing Aston Villa with West Ham.
But not to worry !!!. we now have MEP's Annunziata Rees-Mogg and Ann Widdecombe representing the UK in Brussels.
What a time to be alive !!!.
Sleep, those little slices of death — how I loathe them.
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TheGrimReaper wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:51 amEIKROY/Aseriousman/YorkieEIKROY wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:57 pmLets kill the notion of the EU federalisation once and for all. The UE does not want a army; it has no land for bases, citizens of it's own, generals to run or budget for arms. EU members merely want mutual co-ordination so that, if any member is attacked, there is a legal basis to come to there defence and we don't shoot our own people.
You write so much trash that I only have to respond to one item or we will be here all day shooting you down in flames.
EU Army
https://www.theweek.co.uk/98495/fact-ch ... super-army
As we were taught in school
Q.E.D or for those who did not study Latin...quod erat demonstrandum........Which was to be demonstrated or in modern vernacular..... That which is proven.
To be fair the source you referenced does say pretty much the same as what EIKROY wroteBut is their proposal an EU army?
Not really. Despite Macron and Merkel’s use of the term “real EU army”, it appears that the creation of a genuine joint military force across EU nations is highly unlikely.
The Independent reports that “a number of proposals have been put on the table for how EU nations could co-operate more closely on defence”, and notes that the European Commission has explicitly stated that closer defence co-operation “is not about creating an EU army”.
This is because, as the BBC points out, the deployment of troops into harm’s way “remains the ultimate sovereign decision of a national government”, and not a supra-national organisation such as the EU. It notes that an example of this is the fact that there is no “Nato army” currently in service, “merely an alliance of national components trained and accustomed to operating together”.
- Hot_Pink_Urinal_Mint
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Yeah, I would've liked to see him have a crack but it seems that because he doesn't describe himself as a "feminist," he's a baddie. Lol!Fuzzhead22 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:04 pmpersonally, I prefered Raab as he seemed the most hardcore of the lot...
- TheGrimReaper
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I do not see how anyone could read it that way. The major leaders are on record as wanting an EU army. the EU bureaucrats are on record as wanting an EU army yet the reincarnation states "The UE does not want a army;".ReasonstobefearfulP3 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:28 pmTo be fair the source you referenced does say pretty much the same as what EIKROY wrote
Just another "if we state our own views rather than the truth enough times, people will believe us".
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 33196.html
https://www.politico.eu/article/angela- ... ment-nato/
https://euobserver.com/opinion/143372
https://www.ft.com/content/3f5c6c74-e75 ... b8afea6ea3
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 33196.htmlTheGrimReaper wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:43 pmI do not see how anyone could read it that way. The major leaders are on record as wanting an EU army. the EU bureaucrats are on record as wanting an EU army yet the reincarnation states "The UE does not want a army;".ReasonstobefearfulP3 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:28 pmTo be fair the source you referenced does say pretty much the same as what EIKROY wrote
Just another "if we state our own views rather than the truth enough times, people will believe us".
https://www.politico.eu/article/angela- ... ment-nato/A number of proposals have been put on the table for how EU nations could cooperate more closely on defence. The European Commission has previously said existing closer defence cooperation “is not about creating an EU army”.
This is not an army against NATO, it can be a good complement to NATO,
Merkel noted that Europe faces numerous logistical obstacles to greater military and defense integration, including too many different weapons systems — more than 150 by her count, compared to 50 or 60 in the U.S.
Will there be a European army?
I have read the links and that is the conclusion I come to. Greater co-ordination, technology sharing and working together more often.By Defence correspondent Jonathan Marcus
There is no evidence that any group of European countries has the political will or economic muscle to spend sufficiently on defence to make up for the United States' raw power.
Indeed the deployment of troops "into harm's way" remains the ultimate sovereign decision of a national government. There is no "Nato army" today - merely an alliance of national components trained and accustomed to operating together.
President Macron's call for a greater European effort in defence derives from two sets of factors: his support for the greater European project on the one hand, but also horror at much that the Trump Administration is doing on the other, with its overturning of treaties and so on.
A NATO for the EU. You don't have to agree with me but I'd be surprised if you read the links you posted and still can't see people coming to this conclusion.
- TheGrimReaper
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Taking quotes out of context is not new. The EU as a whole are moving to closer political union and an EU army (you will note that I have not said this is a bad thing, I only picked up the reincarnation for spinning facts).ReasonstobefearfulP3 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:03 pm
I have read the links and that is the conclusion I come to. Greater co-ordination, technology sharing and working together more often.
A NATO for the EU. You don't have to agree with me but I'd be surprised if you read the links you posted and still can't see people coming to this conclusion.
Germany lost two world wars and now having won the economic one in Europe are moving towards the military one. Do you honestly think that if we stay in the EU we will have any say in this or as to who leads an EU army?
The UK have been effectively sidelined in the EU and the only way forward for us is to have strong opposition in the EU Parliament and strong opposition in our Parliament to a political EU.
Common Market? Yes, Political Union? No.
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