Another Nutter Shoots 20 Dead in Texas
Anyhoo. People died guns were used. End of.
And guns are not “available everywhere” in the UK. How do you know? I’ve never seen a gun in 40 odd years in London (apart from shotguns). They are available of course but you can’t just pop down to the local store or gangster and buy one.
This is a pointless discussion. I only got involved as Migs now pays me per post, or PPP as I call it.
I’m out.
And guns are not “available everywhere” in the UK. How do you know? I’ve never seen a gun in 40 odd years in London (apart from shotguns). They are available of course but you can’t just pop down to the local store or gangster and buy one.
This is a pointless discussion. I only got involved as Migs now pays me per post, or PPP as I call it.
I’m out.
pew, pew, pew, pew!
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I used to think TGR would get so excited he'd blow up. Now, I'm beginning to think he'll get so excited that he'll blow someone else up. It's the far right you have to watch out for. They are by far the biggest terrorist threat in the US, and they hold the record as such.Dallow Spicer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:13 pmWell, you seem know better than the El Paso authorities who are treating it as a case of domestic terrorism, and are increasingly confident that he was the author of the online manifesto, citing the 'invasion of Texas', blaming corporations for encouraging immigration and blaming Democrats for being pro-immigration.
Now, you can say he was insane because the action was - by definition - the action of a nutjob, but it's hard to make a case that the motivation driving the action was anything other than political.
Meh. Far right / far left. They are barely distinguishable today and seem closer and closer in their world view and what they see as the issues affecting the world, and their causes.
Classic horseshoe theory.
Classic horseshoe theory.
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Yep, knives have been the go to for a few decades now.YaTingPom wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:23 pmAnyhoo. People died guns were used. End of.
And guns are not “available everywhere” in the UK. How do you know? I’ve never seen a gun in 40 odd years in London (apart from shotguns). They are available of course but you can’t just pop down to the local store or gangster and buy one.
This is a pointless discussion. I only got involved as Migs now pays me per post, or PPP as I call it.
I’m out.
The mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be kindled.
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Contradict yourself much? You understand that stricter licensing is a form of gun control, right?TheGrimReaper wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:08 pmGun control does not work.
Education about guns and stricter licensing checks are a start.
So one country with easy access to guns has 113,000 shooting a year, and another country with strict gun control has a few hundred. But your argument is that because there are still ANY shootings in the latter country, that's proof gun control doesn't work?TheGrimReaper wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:08 pm
You could not be further from the point.
In a country that has some of the strictest gun controls on the world and in a city where the Mayor made safety one of his main pledges, there are still shootings.
I'm trying hard not to be insulting, but come on, don't the numbers speak for themselves here?
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Are you being paid in money or in kind?YaTingPom wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:23 pmAnyhoo. People died guns were used. End of.
And guns are not “available everywhere” in the UK. How do you know? I’ve never seen a gun in 40 odd years in London (apart from shotguns). They are available of course but you can’t just pop down to the local store or gangster and buy one.
This is a pointless discussion. I only got involved as Migs now pays me per post, or PPP as I call it.
I’m out.
As for guns, easily available. Most of my neighbours own lots of guns. I have a very nice single barrel pump action shot gun (3 shells). Used to own a police special in America as well as a .38 bolt action hunting rifle. Only thing I ever shot with either of them were foxes after my kids (goats).
Sleep, those little slices of death — how I loathe them.
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First I said "stricter licence CHECKS", not stricter licensing.Miguelito wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:21 pmContradict yourself much? You understand that stricter licensing is a form of gun control, right?TheGrimReaper wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:08 pmGun control does not work.
Education about guns and stricter licensing checks are a start.
So one country with easy access to guns has 113,000 shooting a year, and another country with strict gun control has a few hundred. But your argument is that because there are still ANY shootings in the latter country, that's proof gun control doesn't work?TheGrimReaper wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:08 pm
You could not be further from the point.
In a country that has some of the strictest gun controls on the world and in a city where the Mayor made safety one of his main pledges, there are still shootings.
I'm trying hard not to be insulting, but come on, don't the numbers speak for themselves here?
Second, numbers of shootings are irrelevant. Try telling the dead persons family that it's OK, it's not as bad as in America.
You do not see many shootings in Singapore,. I wonder why? This may be a good reason.." Using or attempting to use arms when committing a scheduled offense is punishable with death. The death penalty may also apply to the offender’s accomplices present at the scene of the offense. "
Works for me.
So what is your stand on gun control?
Sleep, those little slices of death — how I loathe them.
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Well, I know you're badly mistaken. If you don't believe me, just type "terrorist attacks by the far left in the last 50 years" into Google. Then search "terrorist attacks by the far right in the last 50 years"Dallow Spicer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:57 pmMeh. Far right / far left. They are barely distinguishable today and seem closer and closer in their world view and what they see as the issues affecting the world, and their causes.
Classic horseshoe theory.
You'll find the first search comes up with nothing, whilst the second comes up with pages of links.
For example: (top of the list).
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/201 ... extremists
A new terrorism database analysis shows almost two-thirds of the terror attacks in the United States last year were carried out by right-wing extremists.
The Grim Reaper another Tory Gobshite who thinks Saiq Khan is Fuckin Batman.
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Leave me out of it.
I love bitches n gonna fuck Texas and the USA+ right up their god damn ass! Hallelujah!
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It's only EIKBOY having one of his usual hissy fits over something or other.
Khan as Batman? No idea what he is talking about but that's nothing unusual.
As for me being a Tory, that really made me laugh. I have spent ages running down Cameron and May and just because I believe it fair to give a well educated, charismatic, intelligent guy a shot does not make me a Tory. But as I said, it's only EIKTOY having a fit.
Sleep, those little slices of death — how I loathe them.
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From VOX:Mass shootings in America seem like a never-ending nightmare.
On Saturday, a shooting in El, Paso, Texas, killed 20 people and injured 26 more. On Sunday, a shooting in Dayton, Ohio, killed at least 10 and injured 26 more. The weekend before, a shooting in Gilroy, California, killed four and wounded 13 others, while yet another shooting in Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin, killed six and injured two.
That doesn’t even account for the average 100-plus gun deaths that aren’t part of mass shootings but happen every day in the US.
Why does this keep happening? In the aftermath of a shooting, many Americans focus on the shooter’s motive. That leads to some legitimate questions, like whether the gunman in El Paso was motivated by white supremacy and racism that President Donald Trump has enabled, or what role, if any, mental illness played. It’s also led to some less valid contributions, such as House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick’s bizarre comments suggesting violent video games are to blame.
But the reason for the ceaseless death toll is simpler: It ultimately comes down to America’s lax access to a large supply of guns.
Many factors can of course play a role in any individual shooting. But when you want to explain why America sees so many of these mass shootings in general — 268 so far in 2019, by one estimate — and why America suffers more gun violence than other developed nations, none of these factors gives a satisfying answer. Only guns are the common variable.
To put it another way: America doesn’t have a monopoly on racism, sexism, other kinds of bigotry, mental illness, or violent video games. All of those things exist in countries across the world, many with much less gun violence. What is unique about the US is that it makes it so easy for people with any motive or problem to obtain a gun.
America’s gun problem, briefly explained
It comes down to two basic problems.
First, America has uniquely weak gun laws. Other developed nations at the very least require one or more background checks and almost always something more rigorous beyond that to get a gun, from specific training courses to rules for locking up firearms to more arduous licensing requirements to specific justifications, besides self-defense, for owning a gun.
In the US, even a background check isn’t an absolute requirement; the current federal law is riddled with loopholes and hampered by poor enforcement, so there are many ways around even a basic background check. And if a state enacts stricter measures than federal laws, someone can simply cross state lines to buy guns in a jurisdiction with looser rules. There are simply very few barriers, if any, to getting a gun in the US.
Second, the US has a ton of guns. It has far more than not just other developed nations but any other country, period. In 2017, the estimated number of civilian-owned firearms in the US was 120.5 guns per 100 residents, meaning there were more firearms than people. The world’s second-ranked country was Yemen, a quasi-failed state torn by civil war, where there were 52.8 guns per 100 residents, according to an analysis from the Small Arms Survey.
Both of these factors come together to make it uniquely easy for someone with violent intent to find a firearm, allowing them to carry out a horrific shooting.
This is borne out in the statistics, which show America has far more gun violence than other developed nations. The US has nearly six times the gun homicide rate of Canada, more than seven times that of Sweden, and nearly 16 times that of Germany, according to United Nations data for 2012 compiled by the Guardian. (These gun deaths are one reason America has a much higher overall homicide rate, which includes non-gun deaths, than the rest of the developed world.)
If having so many guns around actually made the US safer, as the National Rifle Association and pro-gun politicians claim, America would have one of the lowest rates of gun violence in the world. But the statistics suggest that, in fact, the opposite is true.
The research, compiled by the Harvard School of Public Health’s Injury Control Research Center, is also pretty clear: After controlling for variables such as socioeconomic factors and other crime, places with more guns have more gun deaths. Researchers have found this to be true not just with homicides but also with suicides (which in recent years were around 60 percent of US gun deaths), domestic violence, violence against police, and mass shootings. https://www.vox.com/2019/8/5/20753797/g ... -shootings
On Saturday, a shooting in El, Paso, Texas, killed 20 people and injured 26 more. On Sunday, a shooting in Dayton, Ohio, killed at least 10 and injured 26 more. The weekend before, a shooting in Gilroy, California, killed four and wounded 13 others, while yet another shooting in Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin, killed six and injured two.
That doesn’t even account for the average 100-plus gun deaths that aren’t part of mass shootings but happen every day in the US.
Why does this keep happening? In the aftermath of a shooting, many Americans focus on the shooter’s motive. That leads to some legitimate questions, like whether the gunman in El Paso was motivated by white supremacy and racism that President Donald Trump has enabled, or what role, if any, mental illness played. It’s also led to some less valid contributions, such as House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick’s bizarre comments suggesting violent video games are to blame.
But the reason for the ceaseless death toll is simpler: It ultimately comes down to America’s lax access to a large supply of guns.
Many factors can of course play a role in any individual shooting. But when you want to explain why America sees so many of these mass shootings in general — 268 so far in 2019, by one estimate — and why America suffers more gun violence than other developed nations, none of these factors gives a satisfying answer. Only guns are the common variable.
To put it another way: America doesn’t have a monopoly on racism, sexism, other kinds of bigotry, mental illness, or violent video games. All of those things exist in countries across the world, many with much less gun violence. What is unique about the US is that it makes it so easy for people with any motive or problem to obtain a gun.
America’s gun problem, briefly explained
It comes down to two basic problems.
First, America has uniquely weak gun laws. Other developed nations at the very least require one or more background checks and almost always something more rigorous beyond that to get a gun, from specific training courses to rules for locking up firearms to more arduous licensing requirements to specific justifications, besides self-defense, for owning a gun.
In the US, even a background check isn’t an absolute requirement; the current federal law is riddled with loopholes and hampered by poor enforcement, so there are many ways around even a basic background check. And if a state enacts stricter measures than federal laws, someone can simply cross state lines to buy guns in a jurisdiction with looser rules. There are simply very few barriers, if any, to getting a gun in the US.
Second, the US has a ton of guns. It has far more than not just other developed nations but any other country, period. In 2017, the estimated number of civilian-owned firearms in the US was 120.5 guns per 100 residents, meaning there were more firearms than people. The world’s second-ranked country was Yemen, a quasi-failed state torn by civil war, where there were 52.8 guns per 100 residents, according to an analysis from the Small Arms Survey.
Both of these factors come together to make it uniquely easy for someone with violent intent to find a firearm, allowing them to carry out a horrific shooting.
This is borne out in the statistics, which show America has far more gun violence than other developed nations. The US has nearly six times the gun homicide rate of Canada, more than seven times that of Sweden, and nearly 16 times that of Germany, according to United Nations data for 2012 compiled by the Guardian. (These gun deaths are one reason America has a much higher overall homicide rate, which includes non-gun deaths, than the rest of the developed world.)
If having so many guns around actually made the US safer, as the National Rifle Association and pro-gun politicians claim, America would have one of the lowest rates of gun violence in the world. But the statistics suggest that, in fact, the opposite is true.
The research, compiled by the Harvard School of Public Health’s Injury Control Research Center, is also pretty clear: After controlling for variables such as socioeconomic factors and other crime, places with more guns have more gun deaths. Researchers have found this to be true not just with homicides but also with suicides (which in recent years were around 60 percent of US gun deaths), domestic violence, violence against police, and mass shootings. https://www.vox.com/2019/8/5/20753797/g ... -shootings
Freedom is not a state. It is an act. It is not some enchanted garden perched high on a distant plateau.. Freedom is a continuous action we all must take, and each generation must do its part to create an even more fair, more just society.-John Lewis
Chneseexpat wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:42 pmWell, I know you're badly mistaken. If you don't believe me, just type "terrorist attacks by the far left in the last 50 years" into Google. Then search "terrorist attacks by the far right in the last 50 years"Dallow Spicer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:57 pmMeh. Far right / far left. They are barely distinguishable today and seem closer and closer in their world view and what they see as the issues affecting the world, and their causes.
Classic horseshoe theory.
You'll find the first search comes up with nothing, whilst the second comes up with pages of links.
For example: (top of the list).
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/201 ... extremists
A new terrorism database analysis shows almost two-thirds of the terror attacks in the United States last year were carried out by right-wing extremists.
I wasn’t talking about terrorist attacks by each group.
I was making a general point about how closely aligned in world views the far right and far left are these days: both believe the world is run by global elites, mutter darkly about secret canals, complain about media control, are generally anti-globalisation etc.
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