Gun nutter/active shooter on the loose in... Christchurch
- Hairy-nosed Otter
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I get what you are saying HPUMint, but I think it was more like our PM was trying to make a very strong sign of respect by going out on this very long limb. And demonstrating solidarity also.
But yes it will probably add fuel to some peoples fires - most likely those who think we are too accomodating to cultural values that are not the same as ours.
There is also the alternative feminist view of many many Muslim women; That wearing the hijab is a freely chosen decision, in order to liberate themselves from the overwhelming pressure to always be beautiful, thin, sexy, in-fashion, etc". Many call that oppression also.
I am not saying I am right on any of this, I have no certainty myself. It's just to point out that there are probably valid views on all sides. The general response to this tragedy so far looks like it may actually foster better understanding and tolerance all 'round.
But yes it will probably add fuel to some peoples fires - most likely those who think we are too accomodating to cultural values that are not the same as ours.
There is also the alternative feminist view of many many Muslim women; That wearing the hijab is a freely chosen decision, in order to liberate themselves from the overwhelming pressure to always be beautiful, thin, sexy, in-fashion, etc". Many call that oppression also.
I am not saying I am right on any of this, I have no certainty myself. It's just to point out that there are probably valid views on all sides. The general response to this tragedy so far looks like it may actually foster better understanding and tolerance all 'round.
...then he smiled again, and slipped away, further on up the stream
- Hot_Pink_Urinal_Mint
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I'm going to respectfully disagree with you. She is a self-proclaimed SJW and therefore it was virtue-signalling.Hairy-nosed Otter wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:59 pmI get what you are saying HPUMint, but I think it was more like our PM was trying to make a very strong sign of respect by going out on this very long limb. And demonstrating solidarity also.
But yes it will probably add fuel to some peoples fires - most likely those who think we are too accomodating to cultural values that are not the same as ours.
There is also the alternative feminist view of many many Muslim women; That wearing the hijab is a freely chosen decision, in order to liberate themselves from the overwhelming pressure to always be beautiful, thin, sexy, in-fashion, etc". Many call that oppression also.
I am not saying I am right on any of this, I have no certainty myself. It's just to point out that there are probably valid views on all sides. The general response to this tragedy so far looks like it may actually foster better understanding and tolerance all 'round.
"As Muslim women, we actually ask you not to wear the hijab in the name of interfaith solidarity." is the name of an article written by modern Muslim women.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act ... 996ad3d83aFor us, as mainstream Muslim women, born in Egypt and India, the spectacle at the mosque was a painful reminder of the well-financed effort by conservative Muslims to dominate modern Muslim societies. This modern-day movement spreads an ideology of political Islam, called “Islamism,” enlisting well-intentioned interfaith do-gooders and the media into promoting the idea that “hijab” is a virtual “sixth pillar” of Islam, after the traditional “five pillars” of the shahada (or proclamation of faith), prayer, fasting, charity and pilgrimage.
We reject this interpretation that the “hijab” is merely a symbol of modesty and dignity adopted by faithful female followers of Islam.
This modern-day movement, codified by Iran, Saudi Arabia, Taliban Afghanistan and the Islamic State, has erroneously made the Arabic word hijab synonymous with “headscarf.” This conflation of hijab with the secular word headscarf is misleading. “Hijab” literally means “curtain” in Arabic. It also means “hiding,” ”obstructing” and “isolating” someone or something. It is never used in the Koran to mean headscarf.
In colloquial Arabic, the word for “headscarf” is tarha. In classical Arabic, “head” is al-ra’as and cover is gheta’a. No matter what formula you use, “hijab” never means headscarf. The media must stop spreading this misleading interpretation.
I wrote a long and measured response to the part of your comment regarding the "adding fuel to the fires" but considering the NZ Police are threatening up to 10 year sentences for viewing, discussing or downloading the shooter's manifesto and video, I decided against posting it.
The image of JA wearing the head scarf didn't sit well with me; I wasn't sure why, just felt wrong.
"Not my circus, not my monkeys" - KiR
I would say that Scoffer's statement is a fact based on current Australian and New Zealand gun laws. Ownership of semi automatic weapons was severely restricted in Australia in 1996 after the Port Arthur Massacre. There was a generous buy back scheme to get "semi autos" off the market.
These weapons would be extremely difficult to acquire in Australia and have to be obtained illegally at a considerable cost. "Professor Simon Chapman said a similar attack could only occur in Australia if the perpetrator was able to obtain “totally illegal weapons bought off an illegal market.”
This is not the same in New Zealand where gun laws are similar to those in Australia prior to 1996 and "semi autos" are available in gun shops.
"The sale of normal semi-automatic guns is not restricted in New Zealand. The same weapons can only be acquired by licensed professional hunters in Australia, and must be individually imported."
"Under Australian law, all guns must be registered to a licensed-gun owner and automatic and semi-automatic weapons are banned."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ic-weapons
Christchurch mosque massacre: Why PM Jacinda Ardern could follow Australia's gun lead and ban semi-automatic weapons https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12213320
^^ Agreed!
Not sure why you would have said that Violet? The crackdown after Martin Bryant went on his rampage down at Port Arthur caused Oz to undergo major gun reform. The same type of proposal is now being fast tracked by the NZ govt.
Not sure why you would have said that Violet? The crackdown after Martin Bryant went on his rampage down at Port Arthur caused Oz to undergo major gun reform. The same type of proposal is now being fast tracked by the NZ govt.
At the time, Australia tried very hard to convince NZ to follow suit but we didn't.
The irony of course is that an Australian citizen has traveled to NZ to do this. Left to our own devices, chances are this would not have happened.
For the sake of the country's psyche, I'm relieved a Kiwi didn't do this.
"Not my circus, not my monkeys" - KiR
- Hairy-nosed Otter
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Think whatever you like about Trump or about Muslims - but you gotta admit that our PM has got balls.
-Asked by Mr Trump what the US could offer to help, Ms Ardern responded: "Sympathy and love for all Muslim communities."
-Asked by Mr Trump what the US could offer to help, Ms Ardern responded: "Sympathy and love for all Muslim communities."
...then he smiled again, and slipped away, further on up the stream
- Hot_Pink_Urinal_Mint
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Maybe she should've said that to Tony Blair when she was a policy advisor to him... that would've been ballsier.Hairy-nosed Otter wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:42 pmThink whatever you like about Trump or about Muslims - but you gotta admit that our PM has got balls.
-Asked by Mr Trump what the US could offer to help, Ms Ardern responded: "Sympathy and love for all Muslim communities."
You remember him - the war criminal.
- violet
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I never knew she was an advisor to Tony Blair!Hot_Pink_Urinal_Mint wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:59 pmMaybe she should've said that to Tony Blair when she was a policy advisor to him... that would've been ballsier.Hairy-nosed Otter wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:42 pmThink whatever you like about Trump or about Muslims - but you gotta admit that our PM has got balls.
-Asked by Mr Trump what the US could offer to help, Ms Ardern responded: "Sympathy and love for all Muslim communities."
You remember him - the war criminal.
War criminal and murderer according to some. What exactly did she advise him on? Is that known?
The mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be kindled.
- Plutarch
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^^ part of a small team advising on small businesses - nothing that impressive.
- Hairy-nosed Otter
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"I never knew she was an advisor to Tony Blair!
War criminal and murderer according to some. What exactly did she advise him on? Is that known?"
I dunno, HPUMint. same as you.
But yes i do agree about TB. - I have a pretty strict interpretation on the various "War Crime" laws, and I reckon they should be used more often. If we could ever get him on the stand, my view is that any reasonable jury or panel of judges would find him guilty under current standards.
Lets place him up near the top of the very long queue...
War criminal and murderer according to some. What exactly did she advise him on? Is that known?"
I dunno, HPUMint. same as you.
But yes i do agree about TB. - I have a pretty strict interpretation on the various "War Crime" laws, and I reckon they should be used more often. If we could ever get him on the stand, my view is that any reasonable jury or panel of judges would find him guilty under current standards.
Lets place him up near the top of the very long queue...
...then he smiled again, and slipped away, further on up the stream
It is pretty hypocritical that someone like Julius Streicher can be charged with "crimes against humanity" while Jacinda Ardern has not only gone unpunished but is even celebrated and elected PM of New Zealand. She actively collaborated with one of the most notorious criminal regimes of the 21st century and she also spent time in and gave legitimacy to the rogue nuclear state of Israel.
The shooter states in his manifesto that he was inspired by Breivik who in turn was inspired by the Israeli mass shooter Baruch Goldstein. By giving legitimacy to the state of Israel, people like Ardern and Chelsea Clinton are at least indirectly responsible for the massacre. Some courageous Muslims in America have called out Chelsea Clinton for inciting violence:
The shooter states in his manifesto that he was inspired by Breivik who in turn was inspired by the Israeli mass shooter Baruch Goldstein. By giving legitimacy to the state of Israel, people like Ardern and Chelsea Clinton are at least indirectly responsible for the massacre. Some courageous Muslims in America have called out Chelsea Clinton for inciting violence:
An ongoing situation in the Dutch city of Utrecht going on now with at least 3 deaths reported so far in what's already being reported as a terrorist attack by a Turkish man.
Utrecht shooting: 'Three dead' after attack on tram
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