Business Class: the resistance begins

[Dallow Spicer]

Phnom Penh: Over the last 10 years that I have been reading these Cambodian expat fora, I've read a lot about what posters seem to view as moral degeneracy. From NGOs to "teflers", "bottom feeders" to "hipsters", there doesn't seem to be anyone that has escaped the moral degeneracy tag.
EXCEPT businessman, and those who work for foreign companies (that aren't NGOs).

I would like to suggest that they should be included in the moral degeneracy trope, along with all the rest. In fact, that they should be put at the very top of the list, as the glace cherry tops a trifle. Although some of the people in all the expat trope groupings are undoubtedly morally degenerate, my targeted group contain a greater percentage of the morally reprehensible and defunct.

I intend to prove my point quite simply right here, right now, and I dare anyone to contest it.

Your point is total fucking nonsense. Businesspeople in Cambodia have not escaped the moral degeneracy tag in online forums. We have had thread after thread about expat businesspeople behaving very badly.


Vic Boyle drunkenly ran over an occupied tuk tuk and blamed his girlfriend, and we pointed out here that he was wanted in Florida for an assault involving a lawn chair and two crab baskets. (He has since cleared up that warrant and is no longer a fugitive from Florida police).

We had a lengthy thread on Mark Vandewater getting arrested for extorting Canadian lawyer Martin Desautels in a dispute over a skank from the Office Bar.

We discussed that Huawei executive Kevin Weng crashed his BMW into a tuk tuk and that Huawei then tried to censor discussion of this.

AeroCambodia CEO Brian Naswall was banged up for underage sex.

Mark McLay aka Jonny Ferrari claims to be a successful casino executive, we had a thread here about him throwing a hooker out of a tuk tuk and then two years later threatening to have his landlord's wife raped.

Who can forget Britcham Boss Ejected For Getting Punchy at Pontoon?

Businessperson Andrew Wallace drove drunk and killed a student.

There's a 30+ page thread about the Dutch CEO of Kamkav Stefan Struik getting arrested relating to videos of his boyfriend torturing a 2 year old.

We've talked about the Kosovan owner of Raqia being arrest for a multi-million dollar fraud, the German nightclub owner Robert Schlamohr being arrest on fraud charges, Sharky Bar being bought by shady "OneCoin" dudes, and Cadillac Bar being bought by shady boiler room operators.

Ken Wilcox operated a psychology practice in Cambodia, Gavin Scott's a doctor, Dr. Gloria acts like a doctor, Steve Morrish operates some kind of security firm, and their "issues" have all been discussed here.

I'm sure there have been others, those are just the ones that come to mind. If you're aware of any other expat businesspeople with spectacular fuck ups or moral failings, let us know or start a thread. But the the premise of your post, that expat businesspeople in Cambodia escape online scorn for their misconduct, is bullshit.

You're forgetting some other classics like video businessman Udo Symon being banged up for kiddie sex, and who can forget Pieter Ceulen, the multimillionaire who went on the run after we exposed his arrest warrant? Or one of my favourites, the wonderful incident (which I think included Wallace) when a bunch of expat Koh Rong hoteliers drove their car into the lake after a boozy and (allegedly) rapey evening in the hotel. Holy shit, the most famous lawyer in town is most famous for being cited as being a no-mark in the Iran Contra report, and his managing partner has made these pages too.

Let's not get started on the media and journalist community. Forgetting Khmer Times and Mohan for a moment (that would form an entire chapter in the History of 440), but wasn't there at least one great story of an expat journalist getting into all sorts of trouble with his girlfriend and ending up in hospital.

And then there are the restauranteurs who have locked up hookers in their apartments, or spent time in Swedish prisons for importing anti-depressants.

I'm sure gavinmac will find links for all these. Happy memories indeed.

I thought the OP was making a serious point that I've long agreed with; instead he comes up with some sort of nonsense about the US Senate.

The fact is, most of the worst and most stupid excesses reported on 440 have been committed by the so-called professional and business classes. When wifebeater wearing drunks and crackheads screw up they just die or end up in immigration prison or get grassed on for growing weed on their farms and go to jail. Or they shit themselves in the street because they are too drunk to find their ways home. That is run of the mill stuff. The real juicy stuff has always been done by Cambodia's expat middle classes.

I've long argued that the real shysters tend to drink in Larry's and places like that and that 172 was relatively low key by comparison.

[violet]

What does it mean to be cited as a no-mark?

[Stokely]

I've long argued that the real shysters tend to drink in Larry's and places like that and that 172 was relatively low key by comparison.

I'll leave my brother to comment on that one

As I've said before, Larry's is "GSM with sleeves".

[Aseriousman]

. the premise of your post, that expat businesspeople in Cambodia escape online scorn for their misconduct, is bullshit.

My premise was that they escape online scorn as a trope/ grouping. Sure, there are plenty of individual cases, which kind of proves my point about them being morally challenged, but try and find a post where they are attacked as a group - like; hipsters, bottom feeders, or teflers are when actually, and according to your links, The business class group deserve the star heading.

[Aseriousman]

I do not realize that, and he is not suggesting that.

Ok, let me try and prove that he is talking about you amongst others.

Do you support the CNRP and the disenfranchised Cambodians? From your replies on other posts I would have to say that you don't seem to.

If, you don't support the CNRP and the disenfranchised Cambodians, then you must support the CPP.

IF you support the CPP, you must be saying that you support the result of the election and as such recognize the legitimacy of the CPP government, and the dismantling of the only real opposition. Therefore, you must come under his criticism.

[TheGrimReaper]

Ok, let me try and prove that he is talking about you amongst others.

Do you support the CNRP and the disenfranchised Cambodians? From your replies on other posts I would have to say that you don't seem to.

If, you don't support the CNRP and the disenfranchised Cambodians, then you must support the CPP.

IF you support the CPP, you must be saying that you support the result of the election and as such recognize the legitimacy of the CPP government, and the dismantling of the only real opposition. Therefore, you must come under his criticism.

The usual yes/no, black/white question.

Same as
Have you stopped beating your wife..answer yes or no
Have you stopped smoking opium..answer yes or no

Nothing in life is binary, not even mathematics.

You really should stop trying to look clever as it only makes you look stupid.

[Prahok]

Do you support the CNRP and the disenfranchised Cambodians?

And there is your problem in a nutshell; a binary world view.

Many posters here are equally cynical about the government and opposition, particularly when looking at the empowerment of disenfranchised Cambodians. Others operate along a scale. Very few have a binary view as generally experience and intellect precludes that type of thinking.

[RobW]

There was the management consultant at a top international law firm who partnered up to run 440 with the founder of a notorious mongering website which advocated such activities as saving money in the whooring game by propositioning street trash collectors.

[Aseriousman]

Do you support the CNRP and the disenfranchised Cambodians?

And there is your problem in a nutshell; a binary world view.

Many posters here are equally cynical about the government and opposition, particularly when looking at the empowerment of disenfranchised Cambodians.

Others operate along a scale. Very few have a binary view as generally experience and intellect precludes that type of thinking.

You appear to have been heavily influenced by SEA business practices.

Slippery as an eel.

If someone has been raped and murdered, I don't expect people to tell me that they were raped and murdered on a sliding scale of; maybe raped and murdered, a little bit raped and murdered, somewhat raped and murdered, almost definitely raped and murdered - when the autopsy report is in their possession. I expect them to have a firm opinion based on the facts and to take a firm moral stance, so that the perpetrator can be quickly apprehended and punished.

[Playboy]

Autopsy Report = Facts

Your love of The Rainman = Opinion

You are mixing apples and cricket balls

[Indiana]

I do not realize that, and he is not suggesting that.

Ok, let me try and prove that he is talking about you amongst others.

Do you support the CNRP and the disenfranchised Cambodians? From your replies on other posts I would have to say that you don't seem to.

If, you don't support the CNRP and the disenfranchised Cambodians, then you must support the CPP.

IF you support the CPP, you must be saying that you support the result of the election and as such recognize the legitimacy of the CPP government, and the dismantling of the only real opposition. Therefore, you must come under his criticism.

Your argument is flawed... just because you don’t support one party doesn’t mean you support the other...

In my limited experience, most expats don’t get involved in politics, especially in volatile countries as the consequences can be significant.

Sexpats / deathpats / tefl’ers / druggies invite scorn of their own due their actions and possibly not being of much benefit to society...,

[Spigzy]

Ok, let me try and prove that he is talking about you amongst others.

Do you support the CNRP and the disenfranchised Cambodians? From your replies on other posts I would have to say that you don't seem to.

If, you don't support the CNRP and the disenfranchised Cambodians, then you must support the CPP.

IF you support the CPP, you must be saying that you support the result of the election and as such recognize the legitimacy of the CPP government, and the dismantling of the only real opposition. Therefore, you must come under his criticism.

The usual yes/no, black/white question.

Same as
Have you stopped beating your wife..answer yes or no
Have you stopped smoking opium..answer yes or no

Nothing in life is binary, not even mathematics.

You really should stop trying to look clever as it only makes you look stupid.

Op is possibly a Sith.

[Lucky Lucan]

Or a Bush.

[Prahok]

I expect them to have a firm opinion based on the facts and to take a firm moral stance, so that the perpetrator can be quickly apprehended and punished.

To be fair, Aseriousman, I am not trying to sway your opinion. It is just that you present an opportunity to air the dangers of absolutism and the blinkered thinking that it encourages.

We have an existing example of the dangers of operating under such assumptions in the form of Aung San Suu Kyi. People who had the same approach as the one you advocate lauded 'The Lady' without paying any serious attention to her policies and practices until it was too late.

Most of the business community will have a healthy scepticism for any government in power in Cambodia, regardless of the party, until such time as it proves itself to be otherwise. Such scepticism is a part of risk management that allows businesses to survive.

As I said, I am not here to sway your thinking as arguing on the internet is like a compass with no markings.

[TheGrimReaper]

You appear to have been heavily influenced by SEA business practices.

Slippery as an eel.

If someone has been raped and murdered, I don't expect people to tell me that they were raped and murdered on a sliding scale of; maybe raped and murdered, a little bit raped and murdered, somewhat raped and murdered, almost definitely raped and murdered - when the autopsy report is in their possession. I expect them to have a firm opinion based on the facts and to take a firm moral stance, so that the perpetrator can be quickly apprehended and punished.

You have dug your hole so stop digging.

Your very opening sentence shows your lack of understanding of the very basics of life.

You are indeed a Binary Man.