Ancient Cambodian currency

by **Jamie_Lambo** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:28 pm

oldest coins i possess are from 1855

by **ផោមក្លិនស្អុយ** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:31 pm

Ot Mean Loi wrote:Actually, the name Riel, comes from the Cambodian word for the very small fish most commonly found in the Tonle Sap and it's from this fish that the KHR Riel takes its name.

OML

I've heard this before but had forgotten about it.
This sounds a lot more plausible to me.

by **Ot Mean Loi** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:58 pm

Actually, the name Riel, comes from the Cambodian word for the very small fish most commonly found in the Tonle Sap and it's from this fish that the KHR Riel takes its name.

OML

by **Lucky Lucan** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:44 am

springrain wrote: Interestingly, the obverse of the French Indochine Piastre of 1885 depicts Queen Semiramis aka Britannia aka the Statue of Liberty (my conjecture)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piastre

That's Lady Liberty, who represents Libertas, the Roman goddess of freedom.

These coins seem to still be produced, I've seen new ones on sale in hill-tribe areas where they are prized for decorating headdresses.

Prior to the Piasters introduction there was the Cambodian Franc (1875-1885).

And before that the Tical which was similar to the Thai Tical (foreigner's name for Baht).

, and (after 'Independence,' of course) was renamed ... the Riel.

It wasn't renamed the Riel, that's a completely different currency, but their value was at a par when the Riel was introduced. The name "Riel" probably comes from the old Portuguese "Real".

1970 one Riel coin:

Riel coins from 1994. I don't think I've ever seen any outside of collector's market stalls.

Old coin-making machine in Kampong Spue:

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/post-plus/ ... ry-history

by **springrain** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:30 pm

Lucky Lucan wrote: As far as I know the Indochine Piastre was the currency used during the protectorate.

Yes, I forgot about the Piastre. Even mentioned as recently as 1955 in GG's 'The Quiet American' - where Fowler several times mentions the currency.

Interestingly, the obverse of the French Indochine Piastre of 1885 depicts Queen Semiramis aka Britannia aka the Statue of Liberty (my conjecture), and (after 'Independence,' of course) was renamed ... the Riel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piastre

by **Jamie_Lambo** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:38 am

i had a look into it, couldnt find anything other than the louis thing, although i dont fully see the connection, thats the only origin i can find

by **vladimir** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:43 pm

It's also possible that the French used to refer to money as Louis and the Khmers picked it up from them...if no coins with an image were in use.

by **Lucky Lucan** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:07 pm

springrain wrote:Then that must have been based on the rule of Emperor Louis Napoleon III, not the King Louis III, as mistakenly reported here:

While the word “Luy” dervived from the name of King Louis III of France, who introduced French currency to the Khmer Kingdom.

http://www.cambosastra.org/a-brief-hist ... -currency/

That was my guess too, French currency wouldn't have had images of royalty on it post revolution. Anyway, I'll look into it tomorrow, my internet is fuct. As far as I know the Indochine Piastre was the currency used during the protectorate, but I'd imagine there was a cross over period when Francs were also used. There was a Cambodian currency introduced prior to the French period. Many of the coins had chickens or the similar Cambodian phoenix type mythical creature on them. I've seen quite a few real examples, they are quite roughly stamped.

by **springrain** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:26 pm

I don't trust that Headley 1977 'definition'. Can anyone find proof that there ever was a 1-cent coin in that period called a 'Louis'? I can't.

Unlikely by this piece:

Louis, also called Louis D’or, gold coin circulated in France before the Revolution. The franc and livre were silver coins that had shrunk in value to such an extent that by 1740 coins of a larger denomination were needed. The French kings therefore had gold coins struck and called after their name Louis, or louis d’or (“gold Louis”). After the Revolution, Napoleon continued the practice but called the coins “napoleons.” They had a value of 20 francs.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/louis-French-money

by **ផោមក្លិនស្អុយ** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:08 pm

Well done Vlad - still don't really believe it though...

by **springrain** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:07 pm

Then that must have been based on the rule of Emperor Louis Napoleon III, not the King Louis III, as mistakenly reported here:

While the word “Luy” dervived from the name of King Louis III of France, who introduced French currency to the Khmer Kingdom.

http://www.cambosastra.org/a-brief-hist ... -currency/

by **Rama** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:23 pm

Headley 1977 Khmer-English Dictionary entry;

លុយ luy

1 v to walk (in shallow water only), to wade; to go across, to cross; to step on. see លយ Vietnamese lôi 'to wade, swim.'

2 n money, cent (derived from ល្វី (Louis), name of a French king).

by **springrain** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:12 pm

I'm no numismatist, but I do like Literature. You often find reference to Livres, Sous & deniers in post-nineteenth century Lit'. As I understand it, the Louis d'or gold coins were pretty much out of general circulation by the end of the 19th century. That the ordinary folk had had access to such currency - which would be pretty much essential for it to be assimilated into everyday usage - I would doubt.

by **ផោមក្លិនស្អុយ** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:49 pm

I can't believe that this is true...
Maybe it is but it doesn't ring true to me. Even nowadays with t'internet available Khmer folk have no idea about foreign rules. Back then, even with a colonial ruler - I can't believe they knew his name.
Jeepers, most Khmer folk don't know the name of 'Bong next door'!