Slave Labour Wages
MM - you are doing OK...your pay rates are what I would recommend and you offer a performance incentive.
These are some good jobs for that town and I am sure you would have quality "on the job" training and high standard working conditions.
It enables the stand out employees to shine and be rewarded.
Our star shop girl started on $40 p/m with incentive...now she is managing the operation and earning much, much more.
Don't listen too much what other people say - anywhere near $2.30 p/d with meals is fine.
Make the business an awesome success so they can earn $250 p/m if they stay on and help grow it...
These are some good jobs for that town and I am sure you would have quality "on the job" training and high standard working conditions.
It enables the stand out employees to shine and be rewarded.
Our star shop girl started on $40 p/m with incentive...now she is managing the operation and earning much, much more.
Don't listen too much what other people say - anywhere near $2.30 p/d with meals is fine.
Make the business an awesome success so they can earn $250 p/m if they stay on and help grow it...
There are a lot of discussions about paying "living wages" around the world.
http://www.asiafloorwage.org/asiafloorw ... ations.htm
if you scroll down to:
Raising the Floor - The Movement for a Living Wage in Asia
and click the link below it you will come to a study titled:
Raising the Floor
The Movement for a Living
Wage in Asia
They determined that a living wage for a garment worker in Cambodia should be $167 US per month.
Table 1. page 74
This equals $8.31 a day.
There are many definitions of what a living wage is, but this seems pretty basic.
Granted it's for garment workers and not Andy's restaurant but surely the issues are the same.
For more also see:
http://www.phnompenhpost.com/index.php/ ... right.html
http://www.asiafloorwage.org/asiafloorw ... ations.htm
if you scroll down to:
Raising the Floor - The Movement for a Living Wage in Asia
and click the link below it you will come to a study titled:
Raising the Floor
The Movement for a Living
Wage in Asia
They determined that a living wage for a garment worker in Cambodia should be $167 US per month.
Table 1. page 74
This equals $8.31 a day.
There are many definitions of what a living wage is, but this seems pretty basic.
Granted it's for garment workers and not Andy's restaurant but surely the issues are the same.
For more also see:
http://www.phnompenhpost.com/index.php/ ... right.html
- khmerhit
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it used to be 75 dollars a month, not very much admittedly but as the film great escape had it,
There are many definitions of what a living wage is, but this seems pretty basic.
Granted it's for garment workers and not Andy's restaurant but surely the issues are the same.
it all depends on your point of view, doesnt it?
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Now you're making valid points. Interestingly, horace provoked the discussion with his accusation of 'slave wages' when he contrasted MM and our wages with those of the garment industry which he upholds as a model in rural Cambodia.
I said above that many small businesses in the countryside struggle to recruit female staff because most prefer to work in the garment industry. Your study proposes to pretty much double their wages. I'd suggest that if that were enforced one of two things would happen: either it would destroy the rural economy on the basis that no one in Cambodia would be able to compete with nigh=on Western salaries for unskilled workers (already an issue for us), or, more likely, factory owners would pull out of Cambodia which would destroy the rural economy due to rampant unemployment and poverty. It's another example of Western do-gooders (probably on fat Western salaries, riding around in SUVs and dining at Le Royal as they compile their reports) who are utterly ignorant of this country.
My view is that current garment factory wages are about right for Cambodia (subject to my criticisms in a post above). It will be interesting to see how horace responds - he and I are in dispute over the wage issue, yet he may agree with me against your point. Furthermore, anyone who knows MM wouldn't hesitate to assert that any suggestion that he exploits his staff is simply outrageous. He and I in our different ways came to Cambodia without the luxury of Western pay-packets or assets in order to give ourselves to improving the situation of the poor in Cambodia. That's always been our vision, and it's a real struggle but we haven't lost sight of our ideals. Anyone who accuses us of treating Cambodian people like slaves is, I repeat, ignorant of the economy and society of rural Cambodia, and making hugely erroneous assumptions about us as individuals.
I said above that many small businesses in the countryside struggle to recruit female staff because most prefer to work in the garment industry. Your study proposes to pretty much double their wages. I'd suggest that if that were enforced one of two things would happen: either it would destroy the rural economy on the basis that no one in Cambodia would be able to compete with nigh=on Western salaries for unskilled workers (already an issue for us), or, more likely, factory owners would pull out of Cambodia which would destroy the rural economy due to rampant unemployment and poverty. It's another example of Western do-gooders (probably on fat Western salaries, riding around in SUVs and dining at Le Royal as they compile their reports) who are utterly ignorant of this country.
My view is that current garment factory wages are about right for Cambodia (subject to my criticisms in a post above). It will be interesting to see how horace responds - he and I are in dispute over the wage issue, yet he may agree with me against your point. Furthermore, anyone who knows MM wouldn't hesitate to assert that any suggestion that he exploits his staff is simply outrageous. He and I in our different ways came to Cambodia without the luxury of Western pay-packets or assets in order to give ourselves to improving the situation of the poor in Cambodia. That's always been our vision, and it's a real struggle but we haven't lost sight of our ideals. Anyone who accuses us of treating Cambodian people like slaves is, I repeat, ignorant of the economy and society of rural Cambodia, and making hugely erroneous assumptions about us as individuals.
I came, I argued, I'm out
- khmerhit
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you talking to me?
Now you're making valid points
are you Prof Raj Patel's blacksheep bro, bro?
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Non comprendekhmerhit wrote:you talking to me?
Now you're making valid points
are you Prof Raj Patel's blacksheep bro, bro?
Talking to the geriatric fella.
I came, I argued, I'm out
I said:
It seems to me that a fair wage for a construction worker has to at least include:
1. enough money for food to survive
2. enough money to pay for a place to sleep and clean up
3. enough money for basic comforts (like pillows and soap) so they can rest up and come back to work.
4. enough money to attract a mate and support a mate
5. enough money to support at least two children so your species continues
6. enough money for health care so you and your family don't die young
7. enough money for 6 beers a day
Andy said he and MM only pay for 1, 2 and 3.
Exploitive is too kind for you Andy.
Cheap prick is more like it.
It seems to me that a fair wage for a construction worker has to at least include:
1. enough money for food to survive
2. enough money to pay for a place to sleep and clean up
3. enough money for basic comforts (like pillows and soap) so they can rest up and come back to work.
4. enough money to attract a mate and support a mate
5. enough money to support at least two children so your species continues
6. enough money for health care so you and your family don't die young
7. enough money for 6 beers a day
Andy said he and MM only pay for 1, 2 and 3.
Exploitive is too kind for you Andy.
Cheap prick is more like it.
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Right you are. i won't bother with any more constructive posts. Wasted on you. Twat.olderguy wrote:I said:
It seems to me that a fair wage for a construction worker has to at least include:
1. enough money for food to survive
2. enough money to pay for a place to sleep and clean up
3. enough money for basic comforts (like pillows and soap) so they can rest up and come back to work.
4. enough money to attract a mate and support a mate
5. enough money to support at least two children so your species continues
6. enough money for health care so you and your family don't die young
7. enough money for 6 beers a day
Andy said he and MM only pay for 1, 2 and 3.
Exploitive is too kind for you Andy.
Cheap prick is more like it.
I came, I argued, I'm out
So Andy, suppose you were born in Cambodia.
And I hired you to work for me.
From my list of 7 essentials for a fair wage, which 4 would you be happy to live without?
And I hired you to work for me.
From my list of 7 essentials for a fair wage, which 4 would you be happy to live without?
- khmerhit
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heard this guy on the radio last nite--name Raj Patel from golderrs green. v cool, rather on the radical side of the spectrum like your mate OLDER CHAP...
never mind the bollox, andy, he is winding you up--Im sure you are doing good work, and remember that the jobs simply did not exist before 92--twenty years this year--happy anniversary, capitalism!!
the ILO used to hound this guy I knw, austrian textile manager, round the time of the seattle wto riotts---he felt he was being hounded by the biggest ngo in the land, and maybe he was!!
unlike mangoes--jobs dont grow on trees, they really dont...
never mind the bollox, andy, he is winding you up--Im sure you are doing good work, and remember that the jobs simply did not exist before 92--twenty years this year--happy anniversary, capitalism!!
the ILO used to hound this guy I knw, austrian textile manager, round the time of the seattle wto riotts---he felt he was being hounded by the biggest ngo in the land, and maybe he was!!
unlike mangoes--jobs dont grow on trees, they really dont...
The question is: why are there markets of food at all? -About global food economy[25]
We in the global north need to remember the legacy, what it is the damage we have caused, the damage that has been done in our names in developing countries, so we need to be talking about reparations as part of the local food movement, and we need to be looking at relations of power within the local, we need to be talking about things like gender justice, we need to be talking about racial justice, because these are the things that can also get papered over in terms of a local food movement, and I also think that’s one of the exciting things the Oakland Food Policy Council is how well they are taking these things on board. -On Reparations for the Global South[cite this quote]
We go to supermarkets because they are convenient...Bunny chow becomes convenient because of the rhythm of our worklives, the time that we have to allocate to our food, and the way that we are allowed or not allowed to eat together and make space for food and the natural world. So all of a sudden this idea of convenience becomes a social construct...although you go into a supermarket and are told ‘here everything is made for you, you can have whatever you like and its fresh and available’ .. actually the way modern capitalism works for food is precisely the opposite...in every way that matters we are being made for our food, into the kinds of people who find this [snickers bar] to be palatable, the strangest things to be normal, all of a sudden its normal for people to live in slavery so that our food and our tomatoes in our burgers can be made cheaply...things like redbull become an integral part of the way to work.. we need fast food for example because your holding down two jobs your trying to run from one place to another you need the healthcare, of course you dont have time to cook the only place you can eat in our laps...the way we live today, the way in which we have no healthcare, the way in which we are educated to think this is normal [snickers bar], the way in which we are forced to work for minimum wage for very little, all of this is part of our food system. -On How We Are Being Made For Our Food[cite this quote]
Food Sovereignty is about an end to all forms of violence against women...The food crises is gendered, 60% of the people going hungry are women or girls, in the developing world the majority of food eaten there is grown by women, and the violence that happens domestically is just one form of violence against women, the violence of not being able to sell your product in the open market, the violence of having your agricultural knowledge devalued compared to those of the scientists in the west, the violence of not being able to send your daughter to school, the violence of not being able to be regarded as an equal participant in politics, all of these are forms of violence that need to be fought on the way to achieving food sovereignty. It requires nothing less if we are to be truly democratic. - On Food Sovereignty and the Ending of Patriarchy[cite this quote]
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It's cute the way you guys stroke each others egos and pat yourselves on the back even while you pay poverty wages:
Andy: "anyone who knows MM wouldn't hesitate to assert that any suggestion that he exploits his staff is simply outrageous. He and I in our different ways came to Cambodia without the luxury of Western pay-packets or assets in order to give ourselves to improving the situation of the poor in Cambodia. That's always been our vision, and it's a real struggle but we haven't lost sight of our ideals."
Khmerit: "andy, --Im sure you are doing good work"
Andy: "anyone who knows MM wouldn't hesitate to assert that any suggestion that he exploits his staff is simply outrageous. He and I in our different ways came to Cambodia without the luxury of Western pay-packets or assets in order to give ourselves to improving the situation of the poor in Cambodia. That's always been our vision, and it's a real struggle but we haven't lost sight of our ideals."
Khmerit: "andy, --Im sure you are doing good work"
I had a quick read of theasiafloorwage site. Basically they say if you can't improve efficiency pass the increased costs onto your customers, who in turn will pass on the costs to you.
I remember a story about how in India, or wherever as it doesn't really matter where, they used to make roads by hand using nothing more than sledge hammers and shovels. Slowly wages costs rose until it became cost efficient to replace the workers with machines. I wonder if any research has been done into the point at which it's cheaper to replace the staff. I would expect the machines to be very expensive.
Here's a document about how and why the EU are looking into full automation of clothing manufacturing. I'd guess the Americans would be doing the same.
According to this List of countries by percentage of population living in poverty China has the second lowest number of people at 2.8%, the US and UK have about 15% and Cambodia about 30%. I think the western countries should sort their own shit out first as this might have a major trickle down effect due to higher wages and PPP.
I remember a story about how in India, or wherever as it doesn't really matter where, they used to make roads by hand using nothing more than sledge hammers and shovels. Slowly wages costs rose until it became cost efficient to replace the workers with machines. I wonder if any research has been done into the point at which it's cheaper to replace the staff. I would expect the machines to be very expensive.
Here's a document about how and why the EU are looking into full automation of clothing manufacturing. I'd guess the Americans would be doing the same.
According to this List of countries by percentage of population living in poverty China has the second lowest number of people at 2.8%, the US and UK have about 15% and Cambodia about 30%. I think the western countries should sort their own shit out first as this might have a major trickle down effect due to higher wages and PPP.
Unless you're a mango pickerkhmerhit wrote: unlike mangoes--jobs dont grow on trees, they really dont...
Final thought, aren't wages determined by market forces?
If you aren't paying enough your work force will move some where else, they aren't forced to work for you.
If you aren't paying enough your work force will move some where else, they aren't forced to work for you.
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