Yes.. this is a serious thread.. and yes I may need pyschological help.
Yet, I think that those of you who have been here for some time may empthathise with how I feel.
I'm after your advice. Perhaps Im after a reality check.
I'm seriously considering marrying a Sophies girl.
There doesnt seem much to explain. A sophies girl pretty much tells the story in itself. She's been working there for 2-3 years, so I figure she has slept with about 2000 guys... and yes.. if you know Sophies, you've probably slept with her too. She is beautiful, cute, vivacious... and quite skilled of course.
I've had her tested and she is clean. Her photo doesnt seem to appear on any of the sex sites I know of, yet most bars I go to, she can always point out at least 2 people she knows who goes to Sophies, so she's known about town.
Obviously she wants out of Sophies, and wants a life where she can have a husband to be good to and a big family. She loves playing with kids all day, and is a caring soul.
Needless to say.. I've fallen in love with her. I think about her all the time. When I am not with her I miss her terribly. It hurts me so much to think of her when she is working. I get insanely jealous and its drives me mad. I just want to take her away from all that.
I've met with her parents, who she says dont know where she works, though I dont see how that can be true. She has told me before that if I were to have her stay with me, I would have to pay her family $250/month. She is supporting a family of 10. Her mother and father arent that old, so could work, but dont.
Her parents want me to marry her, and she says they will give us a house to live in, but I would still need to pay them $100/month, because no one would be supporting her family.
I love this girl so much... I dont know why. Maybe its the way she dotes on me when she is with me. She does absolutely everything for me. Maybe its because she is totally amazing in bed. Maybe its because she is funny and cheerful. Maybe because she is so gorgeous.
Maybe its because I feel sorry for her. Maybe because it is because I am desperately lonely. Maybe it is because I am insane.
I am teaching here. I dont have parents or family who would attend the wedding. I would be too ashamed to have ANYone I know in Phnom Penh attend the wedding because they all have slept with her, and all the people on her side who went to the wedding would be Sophie girls. In short, I would secretly have the wedding and no one would know about it.
Reading over my post again, it seems like an insane idea. But I really love this girl, and I can imagine spending my life with her.. well.. at least the next 15-20 years. And after 1 or 2 years I think the transient population of Cambodia's expats would have moved on enough for most people I meet to not know that she ever worked in Sophies before.
There is 6 years difference between us. She is 24.
Am I crazy?
Can I do this?
Please don't spam me.. I really want advice. Advice of the more long term expats here is wanted more than the rest.
Can I marry a Sophies girl???
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- Doctor Seuss
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My advice in love is always... "follow your heart".
Sure you will make mistakes, but if you follow your heart you cant go wrong in the end.
But ... shit... a Sophies Girl? ...... there is a certain social pariah factor going on there. What circles do you move in? can she move in those same circles?
Feel for you... tough choice....
This should have been a poll. Should you marry her, yes/no?
Sure you will make mistakes, but if you follow your heart you cant go wrong in the end.
But ... shit... a Sophies Girl? ...... there is a certain social pariah factor going on there. What circles do you move in? can she move in those same circles?
Feel for you... tough choice....
This should have been a poll. Should you marry her, yes/no?
My immediate reaction to this post was: "right, someone is trying to come up with a smart provocation by combining two always hot topics of marriage with khmer girls and sex workers (esp. infamous Sophies)". Then I thought there is small probability that the poster could be serious, after all, this sort of thing is not unheard of. But then soon I concluded that it's smaller probability than getting AIDS from a nun. Maybe I'm just cynical. Even so, I will try to pretend for two minutes that the poster is serious, for arguments sake.
You should read Mac's article on main page on bargirl relationships. What is your motivation? Do you believe you can change her by your presence and by taking her out of the vicious circle of brothel life? If so, do you think you have any hope in hell that you can do that? If you don't intend to change her and place her on cooking course can you take it when she shags with old favorite customers from out of habit? Also, will you be able to satisfy her in the same way as she got use to almost every day for two years? Worth thinking of.
Seriously, I think it can work just as well as it could work with a 'good' girl, virgin fresh from university. It might even work better. It really seems to be hit and miss when it comes down to choosing who you want to spend rest (in theory) of your life with. In situation where your vision is blurred it's difficult to make right choices.
Thats two minutes then.
POTENTIAL TROLL.
P.S. At least she is a good shag
You should read Mac's article on main page on bargirl relationships. What is your motivation? Do you believe you can change her by your presence and by taking her out of the vicious circle of brothel life? If so, do you think you have any hope in hell that you can do that? If you don't intend to change her and place her on cooking course can you take it when she shags with old favorite customers from out of habit? Also, will you be able to satisfy her in the same way as she got use to almost every day for two years? Worth thinking of.
Seriously, I think it can work just as well as it could work with a 'good' girl, virgin fresh from university. It might even work better. It really seems to be hit and miss when it comes down to choosing who you want to spend rest (in theory) of your life with. In situation where your vision is blurred it's difficult to make right choices.
Thats two minutes then.
POTENTIAL TROLL.
P.S. At least she is a good shag
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You should talk to Kimcheemonster, who was interested in marrying an HIV+ Walkabout girl a few months back. Maybe you two can have a double wedding to cut costs. The invitation list of "dudes who have fucked the bride" will probably be the same anyway.
Instead of attacking the idiocy of this head on, I'll just ask a few questions. I don't understand why if you live with her, you have to pay her family $250 per month, but if you marry her, it's only $100. How much does the family need, is it $250 or $100?
If the family is dependent on the $100-$250 per month, how in the world are they going to provide a house for you? Are you going to move into some tiny shack in the provinces and live with her 10 family members?
I would recommend they sell that house to raise money and then everyone can move into your girlfriend's giant vagina.
Instead of attacking the idiocy of this head on, I'll just ask a few questions. I don't understand why if you live with her, you have to pay her family $250 per month, but if you marry her, it's only $100. How much does the family need, is it $250 or $100?
If the family is dependent on the $100-$250 per month, how in the world are they going to provide a house for you? Are you going to move into some tiny shack in the provinces and live with her 10 family members?
I would recommend they sell that house to raise money and then everyone can move into your girlfriend's giant vagina.
Was it just an AIDS/HIV and/or herpes test? There are viruses/diseases specific to women; perhaps you should fly her to Bangkok where she could get a gyno-exam (if they do that there) to see if she has something like HPV which could lead to cervical cancer.I've had her tested and she is clean.
Out of the frying pan and into the fire.Obviously she wants out of Sophies, and wants a life where she can have a husband to be good to and a big family. She loves playing with kids all day,
I think the biggest obstacle you will encounter, throughout your life, is whether you can live with her past and not let it eat away at you and then bring it up during arguments or moments of insecurity.
She probably does want a new start and may be able to move on a lot more easily than you. This I have noticed is the major reason for unhappiness in such relationships.[/b]
PS Don't forget about hep'
PPS A long engagement may be a good idea
She probably does want a new start and may be able to move on a lot more easily than you. This I have noticed is the major reason for unhappiness in such relationships.[/b]
PS Don't forget about hep'
PPS A long engagement may be a good idea
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gavinmac wrote:You should talk to Kimcheemonster, who was interested in marrying an HIV+ Walkabout girl a few months back. Maybe you two can have a double wedding to cut costs. The invitation list of "dudes who have fucked the bride" will probably be the same anyway.
Instead of attacking the idiocy of this head on, I'll just ask a few questions. I don't understand why if you live with her, you have to pay her family $250 per month, but if you marry her, it's only $100. How much does the family need, is it $250 or $100?
If the family is dependent on the $100-$250 per month, how in the world are they going to provide a house for you? Are you going to move into some tiny shack in the provinces and live with her 10 family members?
I would recommend they sell that house to raise money and then everyone can move into your girlfriend's giant vagina.
She wasnt HIV+, didnt frequent the Walkabout, and lives in your giant vagina.
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A blackadder quote for all occations:
Wisewoman: Hail Edmund, lord of Adders Black.
Edmund: Hello.
Wisewoman: Step no nearer, for already I see thy bloody purpose. Thou plot is,
Blackadder thou wouldst be king and drown Middlesex in a butt of wine. Ah, ah, ah, ah.
Edmund: No, no, no, no. it is far worse than that. I'm in love with my man servant.
Wisewoman: Oh well, I'd sleep with him if I were you.
Edmund: What?
Wisewoman: When I fancy people, I sleep with them. Oh, I have to drug them
first of course! Being so old and watty.
Edmund: But what about my position, my social life?
Wisewoman: Very well then. Three other paths are open to you. Three cunning plans to
cure thy ailment.
Edmund: Oh good.
Wisewoman: The first is simple. Kill Bob!
Edmund: Never.
Wisewoman: Then try the second. Kill your self!
Edmund: Neu. And the third?
Wisewoman: The third is to ensure that no one else ever knows.
Edmund: Ha, that sounds more like it. How?
Wisewoman: Kill everybody in the whole world. Ah, ha, ha ...
If you know what you are getting into, and you want to, and you love her then do it. It’s your life. If you don’t care where she has worked and you trust her then it’s fine. I must say that I think it is a risk, but all marriages are risks. Do you want to stay here with her? If you want to take abroad, you may have visa troubles for residency. Often embassies think the worst about bar girls or brothel girls. If you want to stay here remember it will come part of your obligation with your wedding vows, to contribute to the family.
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Thanks for the serious replies, as I really am not trolling.
Of course her shagging old customers is my greatest fear. She swears that she would be a good wife and never go with another man again, and I believe her. But she is hardly going to say the opposite is she?
Obviously, while I was just promising of living with her, I had to pay the 'rent me as a girlfriend' price... standard $250 (Im sure it was negotiable but I never bothered, because I never wanted to pay anything per month)
But when it came of talk of marriage, it is clear that some money is going to have to be paid to the family, as she is solely supporting them. The amount they need for the basics each month is said to be $100. Obviously this wouldnt be the case, as there would always be a sick cow or a sick child to pay for as well....
I trust her, but I guess I DO care where she works, as I said to Seuss and RobW above.
True
Well, I appreciate your responses. Its helped me think what I really want.
I want to do this, but just cant suffer the embarrassment that would undoubtedly accompany me for at least the next 2 or 3 years. So I guess I have to say no.
Now for the bombshell.
She's pregnant. Now what do I do?
Its the "social pariah" factor tat worries me the MOST.Doctor Seuss wrote: there is a certain social pariah factor going on there.
As I said, Im a teacher. I have monthly parties... school events etc...I suppose she could go, but it would be obvious where she came from to the Khmers, even though Id introduce her as my wife. Also, other foreigners at the function would have all slept with her.... so... I guess the answer is no... I wouldnt want her at those functions... Also going to weddings and such with her would be hard, because again, we would be mixing with her old customers and I would be embarrassed.What circles do you move in? can she move in those same circles?
I love her and want to be with her. I enjoy her company, I enjoy talking with her and learning from her, I enjoy holding her, and of course sleeping with her.JT wrote:What is your motivation?
I dont actually see much in her to change. She hates working where shes works but sees no choice. Apart from where she works, I dont see anything in her I wish to change.Do you believe you can change her by your presence and by taking her out of the vicious circle of brothel life?
I dont pretend to go on the route of putting her on a cooking course. Clearly she is happy staying at home and making a family. Im ok with that. English classes would be good, but so would Khmer classes for me!If you don't intend to change her and place her on cooking course can you take it when she shags with old favorite customers from out of habit?
Of course her shagging old customers is my greatest fear. She swears that she would be a good wife and never go with another man again, and I believe her. But she is hardly going to say the opposite is she?
This is my problem.In situation where your vision is blurred it's difficult to make right choices.
ExactlyP.S. At least she is a good shag
GavinMac wrote:I don't understand why if you live with her, you have to pay her family $250 per month, but if you marry her, it's only $100. How much does the family need, is it $250 or $100?
Obviously, while I was just promising of living with her, I had to pay the 'rent me as a girlfriend' price... standard $250 (Im sure it was negotiable but I never bothered, because I never wanted to pay anything per month)
But when it came of talk of marriage, it is clear that some money is going to have to be paid to the family, as she is solely supporting them. The amount they need for the basics each month is said to be $100. Obviously this wouldnt be the case, as there would always be a sick cow or a sick child to pay for as well....
Close. They have two houses... probably better called shacks. Anyway. It would be local style living, but our shack would be just for us and the family would live in the other one. We'd be livin it local, down and dirty, but we'd have our own privacy.If the family is dependent on the $100-$250 per month, how in the world are they going to provide a house for you? Are you going to move into some tiny shack in the provinces and live with her 10 family members?
Yes, it was the works. These are now all available in PP. Have been for a while now.Was it just an AIDS/HIV and/or herpes test?
You're right of course, and I think this is the major concern. Ive no doubts she can move on quickly. The major problem is me being able to forget her past, and the constant reminders I will get from others.RobW wrote:I think the biggest obstacle you will encounter, throughout your life, is whether you can live with her past and not let it eat away at you and then bring it up during arguments or moments of insecurity.
She probably does want a new start and may be able to move on a lot more easily than you. This I have noticed is the major reason for unhappiness in such relationships
I think you misunderstood. Im 30, and she is 24. Although that could mean she is 23, 24 or 25. Who really knows?logos wrote: You should wait till you mature a bit. Getting hooked at eighteen is premature.
A16 wrote:If you know what you are getting into, and you want to, and you love her then do it. It’s your life. If you don’t care where she has worked and you trust her then it’s fine.
I trust her, but I guess I DO care where she works, as I said to Seuss and RobW above.
I must say that I think it is a risk, but all marriages are risks.
True
No real interest in going abroad with her except for casual visits during yule tide season etc... Happy to live it down and dirty in the hack. Its cheap at least. Never had much family, and thats something that appeals to me.Do you want to stay here with her? If you want to take abroad, you may have visa troubles for residency. Often embassies think the worst about bar girls or brothel girls.
Your right I suppose. Im prepared for that.If you want to stay here remember it will come part of your obligation with your wedding vows, to contribute to the family.
Well, I appreciate your responses. Its helped me think what I really want.
I want to do this, but just cant suffer the embarrassment that would undoubtedly accompany me for at least the next 2 or 3 years. So I guess I have to say no.
Now for the bombshell.
She's pregnant. Now what do I do?
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When I was a young man living in korea in the early 90's, korean "men" used to call out all forms of abuse at whatever korean girl I was dating. Some girls couldnt take it and broke up with me. Some didnt care and we got along well together. But going out to bars and clubs some korean man or woman would invariably pull your girl aside and try to turn her away from you. It still happens to this day. But a man who would become my friend gave me the best piece of advice anyone has ever given me. He told me that when I got home at night with her to tell her that it didnt matter what anyone else says. There is no one else that matters but you and me.
Well I suppose you could run, but if you like the country maybe that's not a valid option.
Another option is to ask/force her to do abortion (American anti-abortion nitwits please attact now). If you don't fancy that I suppose you have to resort to plan A, and marry her. Toss a coin, if you can find one from Cambodia.
Another option is to ask/force her to do abortion (American anti-abortion nitwits please attact now). If you don't fancy that I suppose you have to resort to plan A, and marry her. Toss a coin, if you can find one from Cambodia.
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