What would you discuss with a director from a large NGO?
- Jacked Camry
- Is the World Outside still there ?
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Allow me to make a few points and respond to some of those who responded to both myself and the thread in general:
1. Yes, Blurry Vision are one of the better NGOs in terms of the development work they do. They keep well informed with the latest of what passes for "state of the art" in the development aid game and are otherwise sound in the work they do, participatory processes, etc. My beef with them is that they do so in order to harvest souls, rather than to objectively bring about an improvement in the lives of the people regardless of their religious views. This to me is a basic abrogation of the whole basis of development aid, which is to empower people to make their own choices and improve their own lives. It's also fundamentally dishonest if the swallowing of the religion is a part of the equation.
2. It would appear from the website that WV are at least being a bit more honest these days about their mission. I suppose that's good. I hope that this is emphasized in their commercials that run on late night TV, which in the past were careful to only emphasize the development aid aspects and carefully avoided any mention of Christianity. Otherwise it's still fundamentally dishonest. I remember going back home and pointing out to some Jewish friends of mine who'd been sponsoring several children that they were supporting an evangelist organization and they were shocked to discover it.
3. I agree with TJP777 that a lot of the comments and discussion about NGOs on this board centre around what NGO workers are paid/do in their spare time/drive. This is to me quite irrelevant, and indeed is connected only to one thing which is jealousy on the part of those who are not driving nice cars or being paid so well. There is, as noted by others, some kind of strange assumption that if someone is working for an NGO or other development aid organization, they're supposed to sacrifice pay and comfort to demonstrate their solidarity or something like that. Should social workers be required to be alcoholics or drug addicts in order to be able to work with the homeless? It's nonsense. What you're looking for is competent staff who can best deliver outcomes that the donors to the organization are looking for in the most efficient way. Sometimes, this can be done by using volunteers. Sometimes it needs higher level people you have to pay well. Horses for courses. Same as in business.
1. Yes, Blurry Vision are one of the better NGOs in terms of the development work they do. They keep well informed with the latest of what passes for "state of the art" in the development aid game and are otherwise sound in the work they do, participatory processes, etc. My beef with them is that they do so in order to harvest souls, rather than to objectively bring about an improvement in the lives of the people regardless of their religious views. This to me is a basic abrogation of the whole basis of development aid, which is to empower people to make their own choices and improve their own lives. It's also fundamentally dishonest if the swallowing of the religion is a part of the equation.
2. It would appear from the website that WV are at least being a bit more honest these days about their mission. I suppose that's good. I hope that this is emphasized in their commercials that run on late night TV, which in the past were careful to only emphasize the development aid aspects and carefully avoided any mention of Christianity. Otherwise it's still fundamentally dishonest. I remember going back home and pointing out to some Jewish friends of mine who'd been sponsoring several children that they were supporting an evangelist organization and they were shocked to discover it.
3. I agree with TJP777 that a lot of the comments and discussion about NGOs on this board centre around what NGO workers are paid/do in their spare time/drive. This is to me quite irrelevant, and indeed is connected only to one thing which is jealousy on the part of those who are not driving nice cars or being paid so well. There is, as noted by others, some kind of strange assumption that if someone is working for an NGO or other development aid organization, they're supposed to sacrifice pay and comfort to demonstrate their solidarity or something like that. Should social workers be required to be alcoholics or drug addicts in order to be able to work with the homeless? It's nonsense. What you're looking for is competent staff who can best deliver outcomes that the donors to the organization are looking for in the most efficient way. Sometimes, this can be done by using volunteers. Sometimes it needs higher level people you have to pay well. Horses for courses. Same as in business.
it is fundamentally corrupt to seek out people in great need and offer to help them and pressure them to change their religion in exchange for that help.
- Barang_doa_slae
- cannonballer
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Interesting debate.
I already told some of my views on NGOs and stated that some executive friends in the very same sector share them.
One more thing about bilateral cooperation is that from what I have seen especially from friends working in that sector, the programs are mainly set up to help donators countries rather than the beneficiaries.
I already told some of my views on NGOs and stated that some executive friends in the very same sector share them.
One more thing about bilateral cooperation is that from what I have seen especially from friends working in that sector, the programs are mainly set up to help donators countries rather than the beneficiaries.
Do WV still require job candidates to be Christian or convert to Christianity?
- Jacked Camry
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I'm quite sure they wouldn't be able to explicitly do so, since they receive a large amount of funding from US government and other institutions that would prohibit such practices. However, it's easy enough to rate candidates lower based on factors such as how they answer the question about the relationship with Jesus, or based on interviews where no doubt such questions can be artfully phrased to where they are clear as to whether you're on their team or batting for the other sides. I never claimed WV were stupid, quite the contrary.Joon wrote:Do WV still require job candidates to be Christian or convert to Christianity?
Sorry if my tone came over as the "high moral ground" I did not mean to suggest that I somehow have a greater level of justice or goodness than you. I was aiming for "condescending" or "patronizing".StroppyChops wrote:Does it get lonely up there on the high moral ground all the time?TJP777 wrote:But if you are just going along for the free coffee with no expectation of any change, I stand corrected on my assumptions.
[/quote]I'm going to have a conversation with the bloke about relocating to Cambodia, and how he or his organisation may want to participate in what we plan to do. At the same time, he's genuinely curious to hear why I was bagging NGOs to a mutual friend.[/quote]
I would be interested in specifically why you were bagging NGOs. Having worked in the NGO sector and having listened to a lot of people bagging it, what I generally find is that people pick a few relatively superficial aspects that get up their nose for often subjective reasons and then use this to damn the whole sector. Often these people are uninformed on even the basics of how the system of international aid actually works.
Don't think for a minute that I think there is nothing wrong with the NGO/international aid sector. There is a lot wrong with it. To paraphrase Churchill - NGOs are the worst form of international aid, except for all the other forms that have ever been tried.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
― Christopher Hitchens
"based on factors such as how they answer the question about the relationship with Jesus"
Such a question on a job application is a spit in the eye of any job candidate, Christian or non-Christian. No one should give a penny to a charity that so conducts itself.
Such a question on a job application is a spit in the eye of any job candidate, Christian or non-Christian. No one should give a penny to a charity that so conducts itself.
A few years back (2003-2004) a friend sought to apply for a job there and we were taken aback by the faith-related questions in a questionnaire that accompanied the application form. I don't remember the details of it though, but at the time, it sounded as if religious conversion would come up. Friend ended up looking elsewhere.
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- Gonk Fetishist
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Yeah, I got that! Not uncommon attitudes from someone on the higher ground! Take this genuinely, I apologise for attacking you - you made a rational contribution to the discussion without getting personal, and I respect that.TJP777 wrote:Sorry if my tone came over as the "high moral ground" I did not mean to suggest that I somehow have a greater level of justice or goodness than you. I was aiming for "condescending" or "patronizing".
That's my perspective on the criticisms of the herd too - however as I've worked in and around the humanitarian sector myself and publicly represented a couple of different child sponsorship organisations, I don't believe my point of view to be superficial. Happy to discuss why I was bagging NGOs to my close friend, if that's really of interest to you.TJP777 wrote:I would be interested in specifically why you were bagging NGOs. Having worked in the NGO sector and having listened to a lot of people bagging it, what I generally find is that people pick a few relatively superficial aspects that get up their nose for often subjective reasons and then use this to damn the whole sector. Often these people are uninformed on even the basics of how the system of international aid actually works.
Hell of a paraphrase. What's a better, real-world option? <- genuine questionTJP777 wrote:To paraphrase Churchill - NGOs are the worst form of international aid, except for all the other forms that have ever been tried.
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- Gonk Fetishist
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This is precisely why the Salvation Army no longer mentions Christ in their public presence, at least in Australia - let me restate, the SALVATION Army. The government funding comes with strings firmly attached. But that's not unique to the religious sector - have we not heard of medical aid funding from the US that is conditional on the recipient country being anti-abortion, despite this being legal in the US? Hypocrisy is not limited to religion.Jacked Camry wrote:I'm quite sure they wouldn't be able to explicitly do so, since they receive a large amount of funding from US government and other institutions that would prohibit such practices..Joon wrote:Do WV still require job candidates to be Christian or convert to Christianity?
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- Gonk Fetishist
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Great questions, Joon.Joon wrote:OP, please ask what is this organization's phase out/exit strategy.
In an ideal world, if NGOs (especially international) are doing their job right, they shouldn't be needed anymore. If NGOs continue to provide public services (health cares, education, etc.) instead of the State, then they are basically doing the State's job and it's not a viable situation.
So, what is/are their strategy(ies) to make the country's local actors (including local NGOs, local communities, government and public administration) able to work on their own, raise funds on their own, generate income on their own, and basically run things on their own?
That is the $64 billion question! Far greater minds than mine have applied themselves to this question for decades with no conclusive solution, so I wouldn't presume to give some glib answer. I will let that go through to the keeper and leave it to the long standing experts with the runs on the board argue that one.StroppyChops wrote: Hell of a paraphrase. What's a better, real-world option? <- genuine question
Suffice to say that international aid is not static and in a constant process of evolution and (sometimes?) improvement, so whatever is on the ground now will barely resemble what is on the ground in a decade or two decades time. The shape of what is on the ground in two decades time will definitely rely more on who commands the political and ideological debate in the 1st world seats of power than it will on what is happening with international aid practitioners in developing countries across the world.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
― Christopher Hitchens
- Felgerkarb
- Sir Felgerkarb, Kt Pb
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I would ask for a job making at least 5k a month. My CV is quite extensive here in Cambodia...but since I am not a member of the club, breaking in is very hard. So, how does one get into these jobs? The advertisements ask for qualified and experienced in Cambodia types...yet everyone they hire I have never heard of.
I guess a latte at FCC and a thesis about the impoverished in under served post colonial neorepublics is considered enough for doin' the 'bodge.
I guess a latte at FCC and a thesis about the impoverished in under served post colonial neorepublics is considered enough for doin' the 'bodge.
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Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
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I don't think they care about local experience, rather you have to be brought in from the West where you were either a bureaucratic functionary or some form of marketer for a company or NGO that has passing dealings with SE Asia. And you need some wishy washy Arts degree.Felgerkarb wrote:I would ask for a job making at least 5k a month. My CV is quite extensive here in Cambodia...but since I am not a member of the club, breaking in is very hard. So, how does one get into these jobs? The advertisements ask for qualified and experienced in Cambodia types...yet everyone they hire I have never heard of.
I guess a latte at FCC and a thesis about the impoverished in under served post colonial neorepublics is considered enough for doin' the 'bodge.
Unless you are a (preferably female) person in their 20s who backpacked around Asia and decided to settle down and be a unpaid do-gooder, in which case you might be able to start at the bottom and work your way up through brown nosing and barang-on-barang favoritism. Older people who came to Cambodia of their own volition 15 years ago are likely viewed with suspicion and probably stamped as s-- t------ or the dreaded p word.
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