Re-located refugees from Australia

[alanclarke72]

Why do you care about this so much vlad? You're not an Austrlian taxpayer, so it's no skin off your nose. No refugee / migrant / whatever was forced to come here. I don't get why it riles you so much.

[vladimir]

alan, I'm not going to apologise for calling a spade a spade, and I don't need to justify it to anyone, but anyway...

I firmly believe that any refugee should be granted immunity until it can be proved that he does not qualify.

The Australian government signed up to these values, it inked paper with most of the rest of the world, believing it would never have to do the acid test.

The government is not just the government; in Australia it is democratically elected and represents more than some countries perhaps, the will of the people.

I believe any person willing to sign should be willing to uphold his end of the bargain.

Australia has failed, and millions of Australians are also angry about it.

Should I reserve my criticism only for issues which affect me directly? Damn, just what the corrupt would want.

Innocent men, women and children are dying or suffering severe hardships. For the scammers, jail them/ send them home. But at least do your research thoroughly.

I heard some of the cynics on here telling us how brutal the death penalty for convicted drug dealers, gangsters and extortionists in Indonesia was.

Yet some of these same people judge the refugees by the same standard as an Indonesian court.

Better to ask yourself the question, alan, why does it NOT make YOU angry?

[alanclarke72]

Fair enough. thanks for the reply.

However, I can't help but think that it is only the chattering classes who are angry about the plight of the 'refugees'. I suspect a more common prevailing view is generally supportive of the government's stand on refugees, while maybe being a bit troubled by some of the tactics used. The Aussies don't want refugees landing on their doorstep.

I don't understand your point about Indonesian death penalty. Perhaps I missed the story about the Australian government executing refugees.

As for why I 'don't care'. Well, I do a bit. I'm a humanitarian. But at the same time I can't let it consume me like it seems to do you. Refugees have made the conscious effort to try to get to Australia. They do that of their own accord. They must know what awaits them when they get there.

They seem to go into it with their eyes wide open. Seems fair enough to me.

[vladimir]

Refugees have made the conscious effort to try to get to Australia. They do that of their own accord. They must know what awaits them when they get there.

alan, you're in Syria or iraq, Afghanistan or wherever

Your wife's and 1 year old child's life is under threat, people in the next village have been murdered, raped, dismembered.

Bullets are flying, fighter jets scream overhead daily.

So you sit down, have cup of tea and a scone, and make a rational list, right?

NO. You fucking run, as fast and as far as you can, any port in a storm

[comfortablynumb]

It isn't $10m per person since..........

Thanks for being one of the only people who seems to have noticed this. The $40 million or whatever is part of a larger program, which will likely save the Aussie tax-payers a lot in the long term. I don't particularly agree with the program, but as others have noted, it isn't exactly hell on earth around here.

The refugee deal with cambodia is more of a deterant than anything.
By the looks of it it's working too.

Good stuff Australia , Keep the money grabbing "refugees" out and keep the standard of living and wages high for the honest refugees escaping the hell that life's thrown at them.

[andyinasia]

Refugees have made the conscious effort to try to get to Australia. They do that of their own accord. They must know what awaits them when they get there.

alan, you're in Syria or iraq, Afghanistan or wherever

Your wife's and 1 year old child's life is under threat, people in the next village have been murdered, raped, dismembered.

Bullets are flying, fighter jets scream overhead daily.

So you sit down, have cup of tea and a scone, and make a rational list, right?

NO. You fucking run, as fast and as far as you can, any port in a storm

I've been reading a long BBC article, here:

Islamic State group: The full story

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35695648

Here is a choice testimony:

"I didn't join out of conviction," says Bakr Madloul, a 24-year-old bachelor who was arrested in December at his home in a Sunni quarter in southern Baghdad and accused of taking part in deadly IS car bomb attacks on mainly Shia areas, which he admits.
Bakr says he was working as a construction foreman in Kurdistan when IS took over Mosul. He was detained for questioning by Kurdish security, and met a militant in jail who persuaded him to go to Mosul, where he joined up with IS and manned a checkpoint until it was hit by a Coalition air strike.
He was then sent back to his Baghdad suburb to help organise car bombings. The explosives-packed vehicles were sent from outside Baghdad, and his job was to place them where he was told by his controller, usually in crowded streets or markets.
"Only one of the five car bombs I handled was driven by a suicide bomber," he says. "I spoke to him. He was 22 years old, an Iraqi. He believed he would go to paradise when he died. It's the easiest and quickest way to Heaven. They strongly believe this. They would blow themselves up to get to Heaven. There were older ones in their 30s and 40s."
"I asked my controllers more than once, 'Is it OK to kill women and children?' They would answer, 'They're all the same.' But to me, killing women and children, I didn't feel at all comfortable about that. But once you're in, you're stuck. If you try to leave, they call you a murtadd, an apostate, and they'll kill you or your family."
Bakr knows he will almost certainly hang. I asked him if he would do the same things over if he had his life again. He laughed.
"Absolutely not. I would get out of Iraq, away from IS, away from the security forces. I took this path without realising the consequences. There is no way back. I see that now."

Because of the attitude towards asylum seekers portrayed by the Aus government, Trump etc, people like him are forced into the IS fold. Short-term western gain will cause long-term western harm.

[LaudJohn]

Because of the attitude towards asylum seekers portrayed by the Aus government, Trump etc, people like him are forced into the IS fold. Short-term western gain will cause long-term western harm.

Rubbish.

There are several dozen countries within 50% of the distance between Iran and Australia in which someone like him could get refuge. He does not have just the choice of America/ Australia or ISIS. Iran borders Turkey and Pakistan, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Armenia, plus heaps of other predominantly Muslim countries where he will not be at risk. To think that only developed countries are places that offer a safe haven is facile.

[andyinasia]

Because of the attitude towards asylum seekers portrayed by the Aus government, Trump etc, people like him are forced into the IS fold. Short-term western gain will cause long-term western harm.

Rubbish.

There are several dozen countries within 50% of the distance between Iran and Australia in which someone like him could get refuge. He does not have just the choice of America/ Australia or ISIS. Iran borders Turkey and Pakistan, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Armenia, plus heaps of other predominantly Muslim countries where he will not be at risk. To think that only developed countries are places that offer a safe haven is facile.

I'm not commenting on those asylum seekers from Iran, or the ones sent to Cambodia - I agree that they were economic migrants. Having said that, a Shia asylum-seeker cannot go to the Sunni countries you list. The cases from Iraq and Syria are mainly trying to get into Europe. However, a problem is the Aus government is not processing the so-called asylum-seekers to determine which are genuine cases and which are not.

[Gough]

There are so many generalizations in this thread, it's similar to the discussions here in Oz, little allowance for the nuances involved..

I worked recently for a non profit and we shared a building with their Asylum seeker resource centre, I met a lot of "refugees", there is no common theme other than that they are seeking a better life. There are a surprising (to me) amount of christians, one spent a day helping me and explained that he had converted to christianity and been persecuted as a result, I couldn't help but wonder if he had "converted" deliberately to facilitate acquiring "refugee" status...

Another, also a christian, was very well educated and told me of the sacrifices his family had made to get him (and his brother) to Australia, he would be described here as an "economic refugee", I don't know that he was in any serious physical danger in Iran, his family is still there and alive, albeit walking on eggshells..

Most that I met would probably be described as "economic refugees", the fact is that you cannot fund a journey by boat or any other transport to Australia unless you have reasonable means, your average villager is never gonna make it out..

What was palpable among those I spent time with was their sense of pride, it was easy to sense how difficult it was for brave and educated people to be reduced to the status of fringe dwellers, forbidden to work, subsisting on meagre handouts (less than AUD200 per week) from which they must also pay rent, no housing is provided contrary to the ridiculous stories you see pedaled on trash tv, which unfortunately is the source of the loudest and most obnoxious critics "facts".

It's a really difficult issue, as the whole "western" world is experiencing, Australia's "policy" on the boat turnbacks in itself had some merit, it saved many lives, but the (our) treatment of those that have landed on our "shores" can only be described as despicable, forced to survive in conditions that you would be convicted for keeping an animal in..

My personal view is that as we (Oz) are legally obligated to accept a share of the worlds refugees, I'm happy to take those with the bravery, determination and initiative required to undertake a journey like they did by boat, they're the sort of people I want to drive my taxi

[andyinasia]

Very interesting personal testimony, gough.

[LTO]

Refugees have made the conscious effort to try to get to Australia. They do that of their own accord. They must know what awaits them when they get there.

alan, you're in Syria or iraq, Afghanistan or wherever

Your wife's and 1 year old child's life is under threat, people in the next village have been murdered, raped, dismembered.

Bullets are flying, fighter jets scream overhead daily.

So you sit down, have cup of tea and a scone, and make a rational list, right?

NO. You fucking run, as fast and as far as you can, any port in a storm

And then when offered the opportunity to live in a peaceful country like Cambodia they refuse, and in the few cases they do agree to be settled here they decide all that murder, rape and dismemberment was better and head back home? Something is not adding up.

[alanclarke72]

Refugees have made the conscious effort to try to get to Australia. They do that of their own accord. They must know what awaits them when they get there.

alan, you're in Syria or iraq, Afghanistan or wherever

Your wife's and 1 year old child's life is under threat, people in the next village have been murdered, raped, dismembered.

Bullets are flying, fighter jets scream overhead daily.

So you sit down, have cup of tea and a scone, and make a rational list, right?

NO. You fucking run, as fast and as far as you can, any port in a storm

And then when the Australian dream of never ending benefits doesn't work out and you make the bad choice to go to Cambodia (picking up a resettlement grant along the way) you head back home.

At least that's what happened in the case of the refugees who came here.

[violet]

LTO has hit the nail on the head.

They are not really genuine refugees. It would appear that most are economic migrants hoping to circumvent the visa application process. Australia needs skilled immigrants who can work and pay taxes, not unskilled people who will leech off the cradle to grave generous welfare that Australia offers.

Australia is a country of immigrants, but they came through the process and were needed, or they were genuine refugees.

Lets face it, if you are a genuine refugee you are in fear for your life. When these mostly Muslim refugees are in Indonesia or Malaysia (both Muslim countries) they are not in fear for their lives and they are in a country with a far more similar culture for them than Australia. The need to get to Australia is then not genuine fear for their lives but a desire for the welfare that Australia offers. Yes it is welfare, because few can get a decent job as they lack the skills and education required of a developed country. If they have a skill they would have no troubles getting a visa the normal way, which is a lot easier and cheaper then pay the people smugglers.

I know few taxpayers in Australia (including many immigrants) who want these economic refugees to jump the queue and be a burden that they have to fund.

Is that true, that most are unskilled people? I honestly don't know so would like to see the figures.

Addressing the fear angle. Why, once the fear has been escaped from, would a person not then try to place themselves in the most beneficial position for themselves and their family? Wouldn't you try to get to the most advantageous position once you have escaped the immediate risk?

Just because some don't want to allow them in, doesn't mean that the people trying to get in should be painted as nothing but leaching advantage takers and scorned upon as though they are behaving in a way that is immoral. They are doing what many would do in similar circumstances.

The government does need to have a limit. It can't just let an uncontrolled number in. The problem is you have some rational people discussing what threshold to set and then you have the media whipping up a frenzy of hate and using scare tactics to paint the people as the devil incarnate.

People can't even sort through all the noise and the government and the media has no vested interest in educating the dumbasses. The media is not even worth mentioning really. Total puppets. The masses soak it up without any critical analysis.

[springrain]

Something is not adding up.

Damn tootin' right something ain't adding up. All this has been planned for ages. It started way back ...

The carving up of Africa was designed and drawn to cause maximum profit for the colonists & maximum suffering to the people of the earth - as was seen in the decimation of the 'Original' inhabitants of the Americas & 'Australasia' as it used to be known.

The sick colonists have continued to rape & abuse indigenous peoples everywhere. Now, we have the absurd situation where people who have been disaffected are screaming, nay, pleading for 'justice'. They will be 'meted out' the 'justice' they crave. These popups of 'purpose' will have a small hearing in 'world courts'. That will be deemed to be 'Justice' And so we go on ...

In simple terms, the EU, World Bank & IMF have failed. Failed to 'protect' those who deserve protection & expanded their sick Order of slavery. Yes, slavery still thrives. It has not only been encouraged, but enforced.

The most recent exposition of social slavery and hysterical warmongering lies not in Winston Churchill,though he started it, ...but in manipulated World Opinion.

The sort of stuff we see day by day.

So I disagree with vi & LTO. We have created the awful situation; it is our fault (collectively).

How awful to turn the blame on those running for a better life.