Safety on River Boat Cruises
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Safety on River Boat Cruises
Admin edit: I've split this off from the LTO thread for obvious reasons.
In reading the article in the Cambodia Daily about the death of Ken Cramer aka "LTO," I couldn't help but pick up on the article's depiction of this as a "party boat" and on this line: "Photographs from the scene near the Titanic Restaurant show a rain-soaked metal walkway with thin, waist-high railings."
Was this a Cambo Cruise excursion? I understand that the owner of Cambo Cruise Paul Brian is the Westerner in some of the photos from the scene. Do companies like that in Cambodia carry liability insurance for deaths occurring on their vessels that may or may not be due to the company's negligence?
Perhaps having passengers from a booze cruise disembarking at night on an unlit(?), wet, slippery metal gangway with a thin, single-bar, waist high, wet, metal railing and no barrier underneath that railing to stop people from slipping off the gangway into deadly currents below is not a smart idea.
I know this is Cambodia and all, but it would be nice if Western owned and operated businesses set a proper example and spent a bit of money to operate to Western safety standards.
In reading the article in the Cambodia Daily about the death of Ken Cramer aka "LTO," I couldn't help but pick up on the article's depiction of this as a "party boat" and on this line: "Photographs from the scene near the Titanic Restaurant show a rain-soaked metal walkway with thin, waist-high railings."
Was this a Cambo Cruise excursion? I understand that the owner of Cambo Cruise Paul Brian is the Westerner in some of the photos from the scene. Do companies like that in Cambodia carry liability insurance for deaths occurring on their vessels that may or may not be due to the company's negligence?
Perhaps having passengers from a booze cruise disembarking at night on an unlit(?), wet, slippery metal gangway with a thin, single-bar, waist high, wet, metal railing and no barrier underneath that railing to stop people from slipping off the gangway into deadly currents below is not a smart idea.
I know this is Cambodia and all, but it would be nice if Western owned and operated businesses set a proper example and spent a bit of money to operate to Western safety standards.
Last edited by gavinmac on Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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By way of example, here are some photos of gangways that probably meet Western saefty standards. Note the presence of: (1) non-slip walking surfaces with proper tread, (2) speed bump like foot stops, (3) a hand rail made of rope or another non-slip material, and/or (4) a lower railing, or netting, or other barrier below the waist high hand railing to prevent someone from easily slipping right under that hand railing and off the gangway while descending the gangway:
Now look at the gangway that LTO slipped from. The walking surface appears to a a single rusty sheet of metal that probably operates not unlike a water slide when wet. No foot stops. The hand railing is a thin piece of metal that would also be slippery when wet. There are no barriers below the hand railing to prevent someone from slipping off and into the water.
Now look at the gangway that LTO slipped from. The walking surface appears to a a single rusty sheet of metal that probably operates not unlike a water slide when wet. No foot stops. The hand railing is a thin piece of metal that would also be slippery when wet. There are no barriers below the hand railing to prevent someone from slipping off and into the water.
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I totally agree with Gavinmac on this.
For exemple as a building owner I spent a lot of money and sometimes redid the work twice or even three times in one occurrence to ensure that westen standards were respected so no kid could meet their death due to my shortcomings.
Edit: Since it happened, every fucking day I thought about what a silly accident it was.
For exemple as a building owner I spent a lot of money and sometimes redid the work twice or even three times in one occurrence to ensure that westen standards were respected so no kid could meet their death due to my shortcomings.
Edit: Since it happened, every fucking day I thought about what a silly accident it was.
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Yes, this could have been a kid, that gangway railing would be shoulder high to them.
BTW, I pmed an admin after I posted this and said I'm fine if they think this discussion should be in a separate thread. That's up to them.
It would be nice if something "good" comes from this, like replacement of that gangway. Might be interesting for a local reporter to ask Cambo Cruises if they are still using it and if they have plans to replace it and if they have had people slip off it into the water before. But you don't have to be a riverboat casino in-house litigation attorney to see that something needs to be done about this.
BTW, I pmed an admin after I posted this and said I'm fine if they think this discussion should be in a separate thread. That's up to them.
It would be nice if something "good" comes from this, like replacement of that gangway. Might be interesting for a local reporter to ask Cambo Cruises if they are still using it and if they have plans to replace it and if they have had people slip off it into the water before. But you don't have to be a riverboat casino in-house litigation attorney to see that something needs to be done about this.
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Exactly. If we weren’t living in a pretend country with pretend laws, this would be criminally negligent. I guess it’s one of the trade-offs we make for enjoying the customs of Cambodia, of which LTO was an especially astute scholar. He knew the deal we all make. I never had the good fortune to meet him, as far as I know, but I'll definitely miss his contributions here and on his blog. My deepest sympathies to his children and his wife.gavinmac wrote:But you don't have to be a riverboat casino in-house litigation attorney to see that something needs to be done about this.
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To all those who are criticizing Cambo Cruise for the death of my father, I would ask that you not. My father's death was an extremely unfortunate accident and Brian has been incredibly kind in assisting all throughout this tough time. I am in no way obligated to share the details of what happened that night but from all I know, it was just an untimely accident. Please be respectful toward the company and Brian for he has also lost a friend. Thanks.
-Kena
-Kena
shitegeist wrote:Exactly. If we weren’t living in a pretend country with pretend laws, this would be criminally negligent. I guess it’s one of the trade-offs we make for enjoying the customs of Cambodia, of which LTO was an especially astute scholar. He knew the deal we all make. I never had the good fortune to meet him, as far as I know, but I'll definitely miss his contributions here and on his blog. My deepest sympathies to his children and his wife.gavinmac wrote:But you don't have to be a riverboat casino in-house litigation attorney to see that something needs to be done about this.
Kena - we all respect your father. He was a wonderful guy.TheCicero wrote:To all those who are criticizing Cambo Cruise for the death of my father, I would ask that you not. My father's death was an extremely unfortunate accident and Brian has been incredibly kind in assisting all throughout this tough time. I am in no way obligated to share the details of what happened that night but from all I know, it was just an untimely accident. Please be respectful toward the company and Brian for he has also lost a friend. Thanks.
But gavinmac attacks for his own reasons. It's what he does. And here he is again.
I'm pretty sure nobody blames Cambo Cruise. I certainly don't.
As shitegeist said - we know the score when we decide to live here, and your lovely father was no exception.
Last edited by Chuangt2u on Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Chuangt2u wrote:shitegeist wrote:Exactly. If we weren’t living in a pretend country with pretend laws, this would be criminally negligent. I guess it’s one of the trade-offs we make for enjoying the customs of Cambodia, of which LTO was an especially astute scholar. He knew the deal we all make. I never had the good fortune to meet him, as far as I know, but I'll definitely miss his contributions here and on his blog. My deepest sympathies to his children and his wife.gavinmac wrote:But you don't have to be a riverboat casino in-house litigation attorney to see that something needs to be done about this.Kena - we all respect your father. He was a wonderful guy.TheCicero wrote:To all those who are criticizing Cambo Cruise for the death of my father, I would ask that you not. My father's death was an extremely unfortunate accident and Brian has been incredibly kind in assisting all throughout this tough time. I am in no way obligated to share the details of what happened that night but from all I know, it was just an untimely accident. Please be respectful toward the company and Brian for he has also lost a friend. Thanks.
But gavinmac attacks for his own reasons. It's what he does. And here he is again.
I'm pretty sure nobody blames Riverboat Casino. I certainly don't.
As shitegeist said - we know the score when we decide to live here, and your lovely father was no exception.
Is this your first post since the Mosquito Killing/Who is Andy Arms incident? Welcome back. I always thought you were a good guy.
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The first thing I thought of when I read Ken slipped was how his death probably could have been prevented if people were not so lazy. You and I agree on a lot and are friends but I agree with Gavin. 5 dollars in no slip adhesive foot pads could have save a life.Chuangt2u wrote:shitegeist wrote:Exactly. If we weren’t living in a pretend country with pretend laws, this would be criminally negligent. I guess it’s one of the trade-offs we make for enjoying the customs of Cambodia, of which LTO was an especially astute scholar. He knew the deal we all make. I never had the good fortune to meet him, as far as I know, but I'll definitely miss his contributions here and on his blog. My deepest sympathies to his children and his wife.gavinmac wrote:But you don't have to be a riverboat casino in-house litigation attorney to see that something needs to be done about this.Kena - we all respect your father. He was a wonderful guy.TheCicero wrote:To all those who are criticizing Cambo Cruise for the death of my father, I would ask that you not. My father's death was an extremely unfortunate accident and Brian has been incredibly kind in assisting all throughout this tough time. I am in no way obligated to share the details of what happened that night but from all I know, it was just an untimely accident. Please be respectful toward the company and Brian for he has also lost a friend. Thanks.
But gavinmac attacks for his own reasons. It's what he does. And here he is again.
I'm pretty sure nobody blames Cambo Cruise. I certainly don't.
As shitegeist said - we know the score when we decide to live here, and your lovely father was no exception.
Anyone who doesn't like Capitalism is a pathetic loser. God bless the USA and no place else.
- Lucky Lucan
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To be fair, that's a pretty solid looking walkway. I've often had to walk planks to get to boats on the quays. Where you go when you get to the end is a mystery.gavinmac wrote:
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What's weird is that even the QUEEN MARY 2 when it was in Sihanoukville suffered a drowned person as well. Odd as heck, but I guess it happens even to the best of us.
What I liked about the KC memorial is that they'll celebrate on the boat. Like a defiant gesture, in a way that KC would've liked.
LTO's blog is great. Living testimonial of his deep love for Cambodia.
What I liked about the KC memorial is that they'll celebrate on the boat. Like a defiant gesture, in a way that KC would've liked.
LTO's blog is great. Living testimonial of his deep love for Cambodia.
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Looks pretty solid doesn't it. Then imagine you have 60-odd years on you, you've got a bit of the old arthritis in the knees and this and that, and it's all dark and slippery as fuck.Lucky Lucan wrote:[o be fair, that's a pretty solid looking walkway.
No safety measures as Gavinmac has correctly pointed out.
That's not a gangplank I would send anyone down, if I was responsible for the decision.
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We have no way of knowing what exactly happened but looking at the lack of guards at the side, it looks very easy for someone who slipped on a grip free wet gangway to slide under the railing. Had any of the more conventional things shown in gavinmac's earlier post been in place that would be impossible and we might not be having this discussion.
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TheCicero wrote:To all those who are criticizing Cambo Cruise for the death of my father, I would ask that you not. My father's death was an extremely unfortunate accident and Brian has been incredibly kind in assisting all throughout this tough time. I am in no way obligated to share the details of what happened that night but from all I know, it was just an untimely accident. Please be respectful toward the company and Brian for he has also lost a friend. Thanks.
-Kena
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