New coronavirus spreading rapidly.
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How China's incompetence endangered the world, From Foreignpolicy.com: Between early December and Jan. 19, the chief Chinese Communist Party narrative from local officials in Wuhan, the epicenter of the epidemic, was that a very small number of people connected to a local live fish and animal market had become infected with a new virus, causing a few to be hospitalized with pneumonia. Whatever the cause of the sicknesses, it was not SARS or anything like SARS. All released data conveniently suited that narrative. Anybody who, like the physician Li, hinted at facts that countered the narrative was suppressed.
After the official announcement of the new disease on New Year’s Eve, a second narrative took flight, which argued that shutting down the live animal market had effectively eliminated the spread of the disease, as there was no evidence of human-to-human spread of the virus. For two weeks, the official case numbers barely budged and even decreased to 41. The message to the Chinese people was that there was nothing to worry about, local police and health officials had stopped an outbreak, job well done—a scenario accepted by WHO.
Throughout those two vital weeks—time when aggressive control efforts might have stopped the outbreak—the virus was spreading completely independently from the animal market
, as it had been since at least mid-December. Throughout December and early January, about half of the coronavirus cases in Wuhan were entirely independent of the animal market, and the epidemic was doubling in size weekly. Full Story: https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/02/15/co ... the-world/
After the official announcement of the new disease on New Year’s Eve, a second narrative took flight, which argued that shutting down the live animal market had effectively eliminated the spread of the disease, as there was no evidence of human-to-human spread of the virus. For two weeks, the official case numbers barely budged and even decreased to 41. The message to the Chinese people was that there was nothing to worry about, local police and health officials had stopped an outbreak, job well done—a scenario accepted by WHO.
Throughout those two vital weeks—time when aggressive control efforts might have stopped the outbreak—the virus was spreading completely independently from the animal market
, as it had been since at least mid-December. Throughout December and early January, about half of the coronavirus cases in Wuhan were entirely independent of the animal market, and the epidemic was doubling in size weekly. Full Story: https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/02/15/co ... the-world/
Freedom is not a state. It is an act. It is not some enchanted garden perched high on a distant plateau.. Freedom is a continuous action we all must take, and each generation must do its part to create an even more fair, more just society.-John Lewis
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China expels 3 WSJ reporters over covid19 reporting: China is deporting three Wall Street Journal reporters after the newspaper published a headline about the novel coronavirus that invoked a humiliating time in the country's history.
Deputy Bureau Chief Josh Chin, reporter Chao Deng, and reporter Philip Wen were given five days to leave China by the Foreign Ministry on Wednesday, according to The Journal.
The expulsions were a direct result of a February 3 op-ed titled "China Is the Real Sick Man of Asia," in which foreign-affairs academic Walter Russell Mead wrote that China was struggling to control the coronavirus outbreak, and could suffer economic downfall as a result.https://www.businessinsider.com/china-e ... age-2020-2 WSJ link has a paywall: https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-expe ... 1582100355
Deputy Bureau Chief Josh Chin, reporter Chao Deng, and reporter Philip Wen were given five days to leave China by the Foreign Ministry on Wednesday, according to The Journal.
The expulsions were a direct result of a February 3 op-ed titled "China Is the Real Sick Man of Asia," in which foreign-affairs academic Walter Russell Mead wrote that China was struggling to control the coronavirus outbreak, and could suffer economic downfall as a result.https://www.businessinsider.com/china-e ... age-2020-2 WSJ link has a paywall: https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-expe ... 1582100355
Freedom is not a state. It is an act. It is not some enchanted garden perched high on a distant plateau.. Freedom is a continuous action we all must take, and each generation must do its part to create an even more fair, more just society.-John Lewis
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Iran announced their first two COVID-19 cases today, and then announced their deaths just a few hours after that.
kungfufighter wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:34 pmThis from The Guardian. Advice for UK citizens:
Should I go to the doctor if I have a cough?
UK Chief Medical Officers are advising anyone who has travelled to the UK from mainland China, Thailand, Japan, Republic of Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia or Macau in the last 14 days and who is experiencing a cough or fever or shortness of breath to stay indoors and call NHS 111, even if symptoms are mild.
Interestingly, they haven't included Vietnam or Cambodia.
What worries me is if I catch a common cold. And even worse when it starts raining and everyone catches a common cold...
Also, from The Guardian: WHO are apparently praising both China's and Cambodia's approach.
Why would catching a common cold worry you?
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NYT updates Cambodia/Westerdam story: Only 20 people out of the 2,257 onboard were tested for the virus before disembarking, and that was because they had reported themselves to ship medical staff with various ailments. It is too early to tell whether the decision to let hundreds of passengers from the Westerdam fly off has the makings of an epidemiological disaster. Cambodian health authorities said that 409 of the 2,257 passengers and crew had left Cambodia for their homes scattered across the globe. The rest remain in hotels in Phnom Penh, the capital, or on the ship.
But deficiencies in screening for the coronavirus aboard the ship, along with continued complacency about the epidemic in Cambodia, are raising fears this small Southeast Asian nation could prove to be a surprising vector of transmission for a virus that has already killed more than 1,700 people, mostly in China, the epicenter of the outbreak.
The woman who twice tested positive after traveling on to Malaysia, an 83-year-old American, was not among those 20, Holland America said.
Health monitoring for the rest of the passengers was limited to a handful of temperature checks conducted with infrared thermometers, passengers said. In a statement, Holland America said that during one of those screenings, not a single person on board recorded an elevated temperature.
On Monday, an announcement broadcast to passengers remaining on the Westerdam warned that they should avoid the ship’s hot deck and return to their air-conditioned rooms to avoid falsely high temperature readings.
Some health experts have questioned the efficacy of infrared thermometers, also known as temperature guns, saying they measure the heat emanating from the surface of the body, rather than core body temperature.
Various environmental factors can distort thermometer gun reading, said Gary Strahan, who runs a small infrared device company in Texas.
“In Cambodia, you have warmer background temperatures,” he said. “It could impact the measurement. That’s the issue with any noncontact thermometer.”
Westerdam passengers were screened on Saturday before disembarking.
Even if temperatures are accurately gauged, people may be taking medications that lower their temperature, like some arthritis drugs.
And in any case, people who are asymptomatic can still pass on the coronavirus, scientists have found.
“A person who does not present as feverish is not necessarily uninfected with a disease or a virus,” said Jim Seffrin, an expert on infrared devices at the Infraspection Institute in New Jersey.
In the wake of the positive test in Malaysia, Cambodian health officials said they would be relying on a domestic lab to test all passengers and crew members still in the country for the coronavirus.
On Monday evening, passengers celebrated news from Cambodian health officials that a first batch of 406 people in Phnom Penh had tested negative, although there was no certainty they would not later test positive.
“People on the ship are very grateful to the people of Cambodia,” said Tammie Graves, an American from Kansas. “I was a bit worried that they might be afraid of us, even at the hotel, but it hasn’t been like that at all.”
On Monday afternoon, more than 100 Westerdam passengers took up Mr. Hun Sen’s offer of a capital tour, piling in buses to see the royal palace and other sites.
In pictures of the excursion, posted on a government-linked website, only one person can be seen wearing a mask.
Despite cases of coronavirus popping up in Southeast Asia, Mr. Hun Sen has campaigned against masks, arguing that they are better at spreading fear than stopping germs. At a news conference last month, he announced that he would kick out anyone who dared wear a mask.
Even as other governments instituted China travel bans that angered Beijing, Mr. Hun Sen traveled to the Chinese capital and met with Xi Jinping, China’s leader, in another photo op.
And as other countries organized airlifts of people trapped in Wuhan, the city where the virus is believed to have originated, Mr. Hun Sen said he would not ferry Cambodian students home because they should be “joining with Chinese to fight this disease.”
The sense of solidarity makes sense in a country heavily dependent on China for its fortunes, after having turned its back on a West that was demanding progress in human rights in return for aid and investment.
A torrent of Chinese cash has remade Cambodia, nowhere more so than in Sihanoukville, a once sleepy beach town that is now a sprawling construction site of gilded casinos and towering residential blocks. More than 90 percent of businesses in the city are now Chinese owned.
On Monday, Oeun Yen, a masseuse here, worried about the massages she had given three female passengers from the Westerdam before the virus case was confirmed by Malaysia. She was not afraid at first, she said, because the prime minister had assured people all was fine.
“Now I am more concerned,” she said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/17/worl ... n-sen.html
But deficiencies in screening for the coronavirus aboard the ship, along with continued complacency about the epidemic in Cambodia, are raising fears this small Southeast Asian nation could prove to be a surprising vector of transmission for a virus that has already killed more than 1,700 people, mostly in China, the epicenter of the outbreak.
The woman who twice tested positive after traveling on to Malaysia, an 83-year-old American, was not among those 20, Holland America said.
Health monitoring for the rest of the passengers was limited to a handful of temperature checks conducted with infrared thermometers, passengers said. In a statement, Holland America said that during one of those screenings, not a single person on board recorded an elevated temperature.
On Monday, an announcement broadcast to passengers remaining on the Westerdam warned that they should avoid the ship’s hot deck and return to their air-conditioned rooms to avoid falsely high temperature readings.
Some health experts have questioned the efficacy of infrared thermometers, also known as temperature guns, saying they measure the heat emanating from the surface of the body, rather than core body temperature.
Various environmental factors can distort thermometer gun reading, said Gary Strahan, who runs a small infrared device company in Texas.
“In Cambodia, you have warmer background temperatures,” he said. “It could impact the measurement. That’s the issue with any noncontact thermometer.”
Westerdam passengers were screened on Saturday before disembarking.
Even if temperatures are accurately gauged, people may be taking medications that lower their temperature, like some arthritis drugs.
And in any case, people who are asymptomatic can still pass on the coronavirus, scientists have found.
“A person who does not present as feverish is not necessarily uninfected with a disease or a virus,” said Jim Seffrin, an expert on infrared devices at the Infraspection Institute in New Jersey.
In the wake of the positive test in Malaysia, Cambodian health officials said they would be relying on a domestic lab to test all passengers and crew members still in the country for the coronavirus.
On Monday evening, passengers celebrated news from Cambodian health officials that a first batch of 406 people in Phnom Penh had tested negative, although there was no certainty they would not later test positive.
“People on the ship are very grateful to the people of Cambodia,” said Tammie Graves, an American from Kansas. “I was a bit worried that they might be afraid of us, even at the hotel, but it hasn’t been like that at all.”
On Monday afternoon, more than 100 Westerdam passengers took up Mr. Hun Sen’s offer of a capital tour, piling in buses to see the royal palace and other sites.
In pictures of the excursion, posted on a government-linked website, only one person can be seen wearing a mask.
Despite cases of coronavirus popping up in Southeast Asia, Mr. Hun Sen has campaigned against masks, arguing that they are better at spreading fear than stopping germs. At a news conference last month, he announced that he would kick out anyone who dared wear a mask.
Even as other governments instituted China travel bans that angered Beijing, Mr. Hun Sen traveled to the Chinese capital and met with Xi Jinping, China’s leader, in another photo op.
And as other countries organized airlifts of people trapped in Wuhan, the city where the virus is believed to have originated, Mr. Hun Sen said he would not ferry Cambodian students home because they should be “joining with Chinese to fight this disease.”
The sense of solidarity makes sense in a country heavily dependent on China for its fortunes, after having turned its back on a West that was demanding progress in human rights in return for aid and investment.
A torrent of Chinese cash has remade Cambodia, nowhere more so than in Sihanoukville, a once sleepy beach town that is now a sprawling construction site of gilded casinos and towering residential blocks. More than 90 percent of businesses in the city are now Chinese owned.
On Monday, Oeun Yen, a masseuse here, worried about the massages she had given three female passengers from the Westerdam before the virus case was confirmed by Malaysia. She was not afraid at first, she said, because the prime minister had assured people all was fine.
“Now I am more concerned,” she said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/17/worl ... n-sen.html
Freedom is not a state. It is an act. It is not some enchanted garden perched high on a distant plateau.. Freedom is a continuous action we all must take, and each generation must do its part to create an even more fair, more just society.-John Lewis
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Well, Corona viruses cause the common cold. And with a cold there is often a cough stage. Maybe not so much of a problem in Cambodia with the PM's strategy, or lack of one. But that could change if more people start getting infected. Incidentally, which private clinic is doing the testing re the NYT article posted above? Will it be Pasteur? Or a government minister owned one with the Japanese funding the testing?scobienz wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:45 amkungfufighter wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:34 pmThis from The Guardian. Advice for UK citizens:
Should I go to the doctor if I have a cough?
UK Chief Medical Officers are advising anyone who has travelled to the UK from mainland China, Thailand, Japan, Republic of Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia or Macau in the last 14 days and who is experiencing a cough or fever or shortness of breath to stay indoors and call NHS 111, even if symptoms are mild.
Interestingly, they haven't included Vietnam or Cambodia.
What worries me is if I catch a common cold. And even worse when it starts raining and everyone catches a common cold...
Also, from The Guardian: WHO are apparently praising both China's and Cambodia's approach.
Why would catching a common cold worry you?
In Vietnam, where I currently am, it means possible gathering together with infected parties. Which, as the family of the film director in China which recently had 4 members die because they were isolated together in their own home - so all caught it, is a worry, as the staff are undertrained and overworked with stretched resources, which likely contributed towards their deaths.
I'm not really so worried about the flu, after all it's only recently we've had a vaccine for it, and even then it's no way near 100% effective. But I am worried about being crowded together in the same room/ building with a load of infected people with the overworked staff having had minimal training compared to western standards and who will be severely under resourced if it really kicks off. That of course would be likely much worse in Cambodia.
As a recent example of comparable training:
Someone I know fell off his bike in Vietnam about 8 months ago.
He landed on his elbow. He felt like it was likely broken, so went to a modern Public hospital and had an x-ray. Doctor said not broken. He didn't trust the diagnosis as it still felt broken, so went on to have three more x-rays in two hospitals - one public, one private. The doctors all said no problem - not broken.
After 8 months he went back to Australia and saw a doctor who took an x-ray. You broke it, he said, but it has healed already.
He's currently trying a course of herbal massage to see if it will help with the pain.
Last edited by kungfufighter on Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Up the workers!
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I found what I was looking for on wiki, of all places. It's a bit out of date, but lists most relevant data in an easy to read chart.
Up the workers!
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Just got this message from my friend, talking about The Bridge:
There is a guy currently holding a bottle of ice water to his forehead so that he can pass the temperature check to get into my building. And the guy doing said temperature check is totally cool with it.
There is a guy currently holding a bottle of ice water to his forehead so that he can pass the temperature check to get into my building. And the guy doing said temperature check is totally cool with it.
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Completely unsurprising and would be funny if it wasn't so common and therefore infuriating.Miguelito wrote:Just got this message from my friend, talking about The Bridge:
There is a guy currently holding a bottle of ice water to his forehead so that he can pass the temperature check to get into my building. And the guy doing said temperature check is totally cool with it.
I understand the temp checking guys nonsense logic... Just considering the letter of the law rather than the reason for the law.
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Finally, a reputable source reporting on the coronavirus that's actually providing solid facts instead of biased opinions... from North Korea!
- Barang_doa_slae
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Indeed and deliciously distractingscobienz wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:47 pmAnyone who has spent any time in China and seen the prevalence of their disgusting personal habits - most notably their practice of ripping out big lumpy green boobs of phlegm from their throats on a regular basis - won’t be surprised these sort of diseases start there.
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I enjoyed that, good find.Hot_Pink_Urinal_Mint wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:16 pmFinally, a reputable source reporting on the coronavirus that's actually providing solid facts instead of biased opinions... from North Korea!
- Dahon
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Yep, I'm in Shanghai. No panic yet. We're expected to go back to work next week but have to wear mask all the time and large meetings are banned. Let's see what happens.RobW wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:55 pmDahon. You're in Shanghai, right?Dahon wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:28 pmChina's Surgeon General has already stated that it is more like 24 days, and som cases could be as long as 42 days. But China's economy can't wait anymore so they have to restart production. Most likely this will lead to a floodwave in new cases and then the internment camps will be needed.
Some sacrifices will simply have to be made. Expect a major hit to the world economy with massive layoffs in the US and EU this fall.
I have a friend in Wuhan and she says things are pretty awful but is very wary about what she says on Wechat.
What's the situation in Shanghai?
Schools are closed and have been ordered to start distance learning if the haven't done so already. Basically spring term is screwed for lower grades but they will try to open high school in a month.
There is no food shortage and I can move freely but there are temp checks everywhere. But you can notice all businesses are getting desperate to restart. Soon industries in EU will run out of parts and have to stop as well.
I would advise against travelling to China at the moment and leave if possible but there is no reason to panic if you have to stay in a civilized place like Shanghai.
Cambodia - tickets booked, moved on to mission planning DONE
Mission completed, reported to Col Braddock. DONE
Now ranting about the experience ONGOING
Mission completed, reported to Col Braddock. DONE
Now ranting about the experience ONGOING
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From SCMP: US scientists announced on Wednesday that they had created the first 3D atomic scale map of the part of the novel coronavirus that attaches to and infects human cells, a critical step toward developing a vaccine and treatments.
It came as the death toll from the Covid-19 illness jumped past 2,000, almost all of them in mainland China, where 74,185 cases of infection have been confirmed since it first emerged in late December.
The team from the University of Texas at Austin and the National Institutes of Health (NIH) first studied the genetic code of the virus made publicly available by Chinese researchers and used it to develop a stabilised sample of a key part called the spike protein.
They then imaged the spike protein using cutting-edge technology known as cryogenic electron microscopy, publishing their findings in the journal Science.https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united- ... s-announce
It came as the death toll from the Covid-19 illness jumped past 2,000, almost all of them in mainland China, where 74,185 cases of infection have been confirmed since it first emerged in late December.
The team from the University of Texas at Austin and the National Institutes of Health (NIH) first studied the genetic code of the virus made publicly available by Chinese researchers and used it to develop a stabilised sample of a key part called the spike protein.
They then imaged the spike protein using cutting-edge technology known as cryogenic electron microscopy, publishing their findings in the journal Science.https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united- ... s-announce
Freedom is not a state. It is an act. It is not some enchanted garden perched high on a distant plateau.. Freedom is a continuous action we all must take, and each generation must do its part to create an even more fair, more just society.-John Lewis
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