Raising the bar for what we can talk about
Raising the bar for what we can talk about
I believe that one of the most important roles for forum administrators is to decide what users may and may not discuss and I also believe that transparency is very important in such decisions.
In 2014 there was a thread about an event reported in the local press about an Australian owner of the Buffalo Sisters restaurant confining a prostitute in his apartment.
The discussion started out quite well with users posting different opinions. Some positive but also some negative, and as usual there was humor. Most important of all there was debate and everybody got a say. Even the main character, the Australian suspect, had his version of the event posted on the forum. I believe that this is one of the core principles of the Khmer440 discussion forum.
Then something happened. After his version of the events were published the past forum administrators believed that he had in fact not confined a prostitute into his house but this had happened accidentally because he had been drugged. The thread was then moved out of public sight to the moderator section where users could no longer read or contribute to the thread.
In my opinion this was a big mistake that compromised the integrity of the forum. The past owner did not stop there. He also added the perp's name to a list of banned words so that anytime his last name was written anywhere on the forum it would be replaced by the hash character "#".
The argument was that the forum owners should protect his name from search engines in case he actually was innocent. Typing his name into Google 6 years later returns Cambodian news articles on 4 separate websites with articles and pictures live today. Therefore covering up the thread on the Khmer440 forum had no other effect other than compromising its own integrity. There is speculation that it was done because the past owner was paid to do so, but because he has since then died we have no way to know for sure.
I do give some validity to the argument that we should not be smearing people with baseless rumors. That's why after discussing with moderators and owners I have restored the thread bringing it back to the public view but have applied a new policy starring his name. For example, instead of the thread saying "Trevor", it now says "Tr*v*r (* = e, o)", thus he won't suffer from search engine traffic but our users are still free to comment on the thread.
I have also re-added photos to the OP because previous pictures had been deleted from the host during the 6 years, and I have added links to currently available articles about the event.
We may use the star name policy in the future where we deem necessary either for legal reasons or in borderline cases such as this one.
In 2014 there was a thread about an event reported in the local press about an Australian owner of the Buffalo Sisters restaurant confining a prostitute in his apartment.
The discussion started out quite well with users posting different opinions. Some positive but also some negative, and as usual there was humor. Most important of all there was debate and everybody got a say. Even the main character, the Australian suspect, had his version of the event posted on the forum. I believe that this is one of the core principles of the Khmer440 discussion forum.
Then something happened. After his version of the events were published the past forum administrators believed that he had in fact not confined a prostitute into his house but this had happened accidentally because he had been drugged. The thread was then moved out of public sight to the moderator section where users could no longer read or contribute to the thread.
In my opinion this was a big mistake that compromised the integrity of the forum. The past owner did not stop there. He also added the perp's name to a list of banned words so that anytime his last name was written anywhere on the forum it would be replaced by the hash character "#".
The argument was that the forum owners should protect his name from search engines in case he actually was innocent. Typing his name into Google 6 years later returns Cambodian news articles on 4 separate websites with articles and pictures live today. Therefore covering up the thread on the Khmer440 forum had no other effect other than compromising its own integrity. There is speculation that it was done because the past owner was paid to do so, but because he has since then died we have no way to know for sure.
I do give some validity to the argument that we should not be smearing people with baseless rumors. That's why after discussing with moderators and owners I have restored the thread bringing it back to the public view but have applied a new policy starring his name. For example, instead of the thread saying "Trevor", it now says "Tr*v*r (* = e, o)", thus he won't suffer from search engine traffic but our users are still free to comment on the thread.
I have also re-added photos to the OP because previous pictures had been deleted from the host during the 6 years, and I have added links to currently available articles about the event.
We may use the star name policy in the future where we deem necessary either for legal reasons or in borderline cases such as this one.
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- ali baba
- "Suit up!"
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Why censor the person's name but not their business name? Why put the business name in the title of the thread where it's even more prominent for search engines?
Can we expect to see threads about the misdeeds of high ranking government ministers, civil servants and military members or does your bar not reach that high?
Can we expect to see threads about the misdeeds of high ranking government ministers, civil servants and military members or does your bar not reach that high?
C'mere c'meye
Well said Alexandra
Speaking of integrity and out of curiosity.....seeing as one of the admin's at that time is still in an admin position.....and I'm speaking of playboy....
.....what was his position on the subject then and what is it now?
.......and whilst we're bullshitting........what is playboy's role in 440?........ he seems quite ineffectual and impotent, either by design or by circumstance. That is of course unless you poke fun at his lack of a prosperous hairline, then he becomes quite active.
If playboy is indeed this stalwart, stiff-upper-lip, British gentleman of integrity.........
.........then perhaps he'll see the value and honor in stepping down and offering his small share to someone with the eye and vigor toward improving 440, like Alexandra.
......But I doubt playboys fragile ego would allow such a "demotion".
........... fucking around with peoples "rank", posting shitty memes and titty pics and banning those who poke fun at him seems to be an irresistible past time for him.
#stepasideplayboy
Speaking of integrity and out of curiosity.....seeing as one of the admin's at that time is still in an admin position.....and I'm speaking of playboy....
.....what was his position on the subject then and what is it now?
.......and whilst we're bullshitting........what is playboy's role in 440?........ he seems quite ineffectual and impotent, either by design or by circumstance. That is of course unless you poke fun at his lack of a prosperous hairline, then he becomes quite active.
If playboy is indeed this stalwart, stiff-upper-lip, British gentleman of integrity.........
.........then perhaps he'll see the value and honor in stepping down and offering his small share to someone with the eye and vigor toward improving 440, like Alexandra.
......But I doubt playboys fragile ego would allow such a "demotion".
........... fucking around with peoples "rank", posting shitty memes and titty pics and banning those who poke fun at him seems to be an irresistible past time for him.
#stepasideplayboy
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Businesses don’t have employers that Google them. It is more likely that a potential employer stumbles on a thread like that as part of an HR process.
Businesses are public by default but individuals are not necessarily.
Absolutely.
The most recent example that comes to my mind is a cement company oknha’s mistress that committed suicide. We were advised that there would be action taken unless we deleted the thread, so we moved it to an invite only section that members need to request access to read.
In the same section we also have the naked picture of the sexy online seller that triggered the ban against sexy online sellers.
The intention is to allow discussion about as much as possible but we still need to abide by the local laws. There is nothing illegal with translating, discussing and referencing local media reports about Tr*v*r and therefore it is allowed.
My problem with controversial threads is not to publish them but they are very rarely written in the first place. I welcome controversial content and I wish we had more of it. I think it’s healthy for the society as a whole.
- Petrol Head
- Grand Poobah
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Attempting to unify the common law:
Petrol Head wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:27 amKnightBoat wrote:I think it is the same standard for discussing foreigners who either had too much to drink or had their drink spiked, but we aren't sure which one, causing them to end up in the local news. If the foreigner ends up in their own home with a hooker and the cops have to come to remove the gate so the hooker can leave because the foreigner cannot be woken up, then it gets scrubbed from the site. However, if the foreigner ends up pantless on Street 182 then photos and video will be kept on here for posterity.GMJS-440 wrote:Apparently one of those above gets touchy with 14 year olds and smuggles stolen goods across state lines. They have even agreed to a settlement for some of those goods, however I am told we are not permitted to discuss further on this forum?
What are the restrictions for discussing the crimes of ex-cons? Is it only if they happened within a certain timeframe? Or case by case basis?
The rule is not to be strictly implemented, however, as there is some room for variability depending on whether the foreigner can make a nice sandwich or is just a lowly TEFLer.Petrol Head wrote:Yes, the issue of thread waxing is a curious one.gibbon arms wrote:No, at least none on 440. They always seem to quickly disappear.
In their Obiter Dictum in the cases of 440 vs Restauranteur 1 (2014) and 440 vs Restauranteur 2 (2014) (checking Lexus Nexus Case Base for precise case dates is challenging since the threads were waxed) and 440 vs GMB (2015) and 440 vs American Lawyer (2015) the high Justices of 440 took a dim view of the unsavory personal character of the accused and/or the material facts occurring in the case.
Although all four cases were not decided by a jury, generally there was resounding public opinion that the four accused were either personally or materially involved in some classic fucktardery. However, in and of itself, as far as the Justices were concerned, unsavory personal character and/or material facts didn't appear to have a bearing on the Ratio Decidendi of any of the four cases.
In the appellate court hearing of 440 vs GMB (2015) and 440 vs American Lawyer (2015), the 440 Justices decided that both the accused were guilty because they both ran businesses that had the potential to catch an unwitting customer in what amounted to a 'potential trap'. They upheld the original ruling and the thread was permitted to continue. It is unclear whether the Justice's test for what constituted a 'potential trap' was measured objectively, that a reasonable person would conclude that an unwitting customer could fall into the trap, or subjectively, whether it was necessary for the existence of malice aforethought in the mind of the accused in the formation of the 'potential trap'.
On appeal in the cases of 440 vs Restauranteur 1 (2014) and 440 vs Restauranteur 2 (2014) the high Justices decided that both accused ran businesses that didn't catch unwitting customers in a 'trap', (again whether the test was objective or subjective is unclear) apparently because provision of food that fattened the learned Justices was sufficient evidence to conclude there was no 'trap'. The accused were both found innocent and their threads were waxed.
With these principles in mind, at appears there has been a judicial oversight, perhaps even prejudice, in the cases of both GMB and American Lawyer.
In GMB, there seems to be a growing body of evidence suggesting that GMB's backstory had limited tangible effect (objectively or subjectively) on the running of his security or real estate business in Kampong Cham. In much the same way that the murky backgrounds of Restauranteur 1 and Restauranteur 2 had no bearing on whether their businesses constituted a 'trap'.
The same could probably be argued in the case of American Lawyer. I see no evidence on the facts that he purported to practice law in Cambodia, nor that he peddled falsehoods as a sales tool to attract customers. Furthermore, I believe it to be a widely understood fact within the Cambodian community that a white foreigner cannot practice law in Cambodia. Finally, I see no law on the Cambodian books that preclude a foreigner from running an educational establishment. In other words, I see no 'trap' on the facts.
What are we to conclude ? That the judicial standard is set higher in cases where there accused does not provide the Justices with fattening Western cuisine?
Perhaps we will never know, both GMB and American Lawyer have now exhausted their avenues of appeal, and their threads upheld. As curious observers, all we can hope for is another unsavory case to appear in the near future. Being Cambodia and being 440, I suspect we won't have to wait long.
Haha - my money’s on Playboy
I completely missed that back at the time, it makes for an interesting read even now. Nice move to bring it back!
Highly depends on what you want to accomplish with the biggest purchase in your life.
If you want to make it a commercial success, have a look how thaivisa operates. It'll require quite a lot of "changes" to K440.
If you want to stick to the principle of a gossip corner on the Internet for a very small public, I don't think, it'll become a commercial success
I looked for the Super Duper kidnap thread and tried to restore it when another poster requested it earlier today.
Unfortunately that thread was hard deleted and no longer exists on file. The thread about the confined hooker had only been moved to the moderator section and could just as easily be moved back.
I would restore it if I could but sadly it’s gone.
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I got classed as a wanted fugitive on the run even though the case was thrown out/ discontinued in 2007..... the internet is harsh
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- Making Khmer girls cry since 2003
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So if the sandwich guy threatens to sue you then you'll move the thread to invite only?We were advised that there would be action taken unless we deleted the thread, so we moved it to an invite only section that members need to request access to read.
I'm getting a vibe of "We believe strongly in free speech as long the speech isn't about important Khmer people, because they scare us."
Follow my lame Twitter feed: @gavin_mac
- Stokely
- Least Likely to be a Moderator, ever !
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Not sure I get this if I’m honest. So now any semi sensitive post will get blocked on K440, in the hope of deterring weirdos and possible slander/trouble.
Sounds to me like banning kids for the vicinity of schools to deter pedophiles.
Sounds to me like banning kids for the vicinity of schools to deter pedophiles.
"Now, then, in order to understand white supremacy we must dismiss the notion that white people can give anybody their freedom." Stokely Carmichael
- ali baba
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If anyone can remember when these threads were posted they might be able to find them on the wayback machine.
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://w ... hat_forum/
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://w ... hat_forum/
C'mere c'meye
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