ABA security fail
ABA security fail
ABA has a new feature that lets their users send money directly to somebody’s credit card. What could go wrong? Well, all you need is their credit card number and the name on the card.
That’s right, the recipient has to give you their credit card number. How long will it take before scammers take advantage of this? It’s almost like they designed it for fraud.
“Hey, I’m going to send you $100. Oh, all I need is your credit card number. Don’t forget the 3 digits on the back. When does it expire again? Your card needs to be valid for at least 6 months otherwise it won’t work. What is the date of expiry?”
That’s right, the recipient has to give you their credit card number. How long will it take before scammers take advantage of this? It’s almost like they designed it for fraud.
“Hey, I’m going to send you $100. Oh, all I need is your credit card number. Don’t forget the 3 digits on the back. When does it expire again? Your card needs to be valid for at least 6 months otherwise it won’t work. What is the date of expiry?”
- Orichá
- I have some social problems
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I have been having a serious problem dealing with Canadia bank's credit division.
While motorcycling in Laos during January, I accidentally forgot my VISA card in some luggage I left in storage while going up the river to Muang Ngoi. Although very well hidden, someone took my card out and photographed it with their phone or something.
Cleverly, the thief waited to use my card data the day after we got back to collect my luggage, spending 373 dollars unbeknownst to me as we rode down the highway to the next town... However, I did notice the problem on the way because I received one of those SMS messages on the phone asking to approve a purchase I was not trying to make...
By the time I got to a WiFi at the next town up the road, and accessed my online banking account, I saw instantly that the thief had made two purchases from Australian merchants without needing any SMS verification. (I am a Canadian, and have never been to Australia. I can photocopy all the pages of my last two passports to prove this to VISA, if need be.) Anyway, I rushed from the guesthouse to the nearest ATM and withdrew all the remaining cash funds in my account -- not so much -- and messaged Canadia Bank by email the same day with screenshots of the two debits, which I had not made, from my online bank account.
I did not formally apply for a refund in person at my branch until more than a month later because that's how long it took to ride back from Laos... After receiving my report, the young lady in charge of credit theft refunds in Phnom Penh has stonewalled all my queries, both over the phone and by email.
VISA has a webpage that says they will automatically supply refunds for fraud... Canadia either is a den of thieves, or VISA is offering substandard service to its Asian customers. As I said, I sent an email report to Canadia Bank the same day the theft happened. So, I can document the email report of the theft on the same day it was made to VISA if necessary, including screenshots of the theft debits from my online account. Yet, they have refused to refund the money. Once, speaking over the phone, the lady in charge at Canadia said some nonsense about the merchants being unwilling to refund. But this is gibberish, as it is the VISA company which is supposed to refund me the money, not the merchants...
Pay must be very low at Canadia Bank. I wonder how many refunds their employees have pocketed?
Any suggestions about how to get action? This all happened on January 22. I suppose I should call the VISA number listed on their fraud and theft webpage, but it is in the U.S...
What a hassle of substandard service!
While motorcycling in Laos during January, I accidentally forgot my VISA card in some luggage I left in storage while going up the river to Muang Ngoi. Although very well hidden, someone took my card out and photographed it with their phone or something.
Cleverly, the thief waited to use my card data the day after we got back to collect my luggage, spending 373 dollars unbeknownst to me as we rode down the highway to the next town... However, I did notice the problem on the way because I received one of those SMS messages on the phone asking to approve a purchase I was not trying to make...
By the time I got to a WiFi at the next town up the road, and accessed my online banking account, I saw instantly that the thief had made two purchases from Australian merchants without needing any SMS verification. (I am a Canadian, and have never been to Australia. I can photocopy all the pages of my last two passports to prove this to VISA, if need be.) Anyway, I rushed from the guesthouse to the nearest ATM and withdrew all the remaining cash funds in my account -- not so much -- and messaged Canadia Bank by email the same day with screenshots of the two debits, which I had not made, from my online bank account.
I did not formally apply for a refund in person at my branch until more than a month later because that's how long it took to ride back from Laos... After receiving my report, the young lady in charge of credit theft refunds in Phnom Penh has stonewalled all my queries, both over the phone and by email.
VISA has a webpage that says they will automatically supply refunds for fraud... Canadia either is a den of thieves, or VISA is offering substandard service to its Asian customers. As I said, I sent an email report to Canadia Bank the same day the theft happened. So, I can document the email report of the theft on the same day it was made to VISA if necessary, including screenshots of the theft debits from my online account. Yet, they have refused to refund the money. Once, speaking over the phone, the lady in charge at Canadia said some nonsense about the merchants being unwilling to refund. But this is gibberish, as it is the VISA company which is supposed to refund me the money, not the merchants...
Pay must be very low at Canadia Bank. I wonder how many refunds their employees have pocketed?
Any suggestions about how to get action? This all happened on January 22. I suppose I should call the VISA number listed on their fraud and theft webpage, but it is in the U.S...
What a hassle of substandard service!
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
...Hannah Arendt
...Hannah Arendt
The Canadia bank "Credit Card" is not a credit card (nor a charge card).
It is just a direct debit card with a Visa logo and you can use it as a Credit Card on the internet.
So all transactions you see on the card, are just withdrawn directly from the amount.
It is just a direct debit card with a Visa logo and you can use it as a Credit Card on the internet.
So all transactions you see on the card, are just withdrawn directly from the amount.
- Orichá
- I have some social problems
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Your reply does not address the question.
The VISA debit card functions as a charge card and is backed by the same refund promises as a regular credit card. Visit the VISA fraud page and read their promises for yourself. I did not make these purchases, therefore they are classed as fraudulent transactions, fully backed by VISA's refund guarantee....
The VISA debit card functions as a charge card and is backed by the same refund promises as a regular credit card. Visit the VISA fraud page and read their promises for yourself. I did not make these purchases, therefore they are classed as fraudulent transactions, fully backed by VISA's refund guarantee....
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
...Hannah Arendt
...Hannah Arendt
@oricha
if you received an sms to approve the transactions, then that is the point at which you decline the transactions. what did you choose? accept or decline?
if you received an sms to approve the transactions, then that is the point at which you decline the transactions. what did you choose? accept or decline?
They’d send a OTP token. If Orichá isn’t the person filling out the form he can’t accept it because there’s no way for him to submit the approval form supplying the token.cardshark wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:16 pm@oricha
if you received an sms to approve the transactions, then that is the point at which you decline the transactions. what did you choose? accept or decline?
It would time out unless the person committing the fraud could read the SMS, and the purchase would be rejected as unverified.
- Orichá
- I have some social problems
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I received one SMS with a code which, obviously I noted, but could not use, since I was not making the purchase on my phone. The VISA system sends these SMS's to the phone a card user registers, whether or not it is you trying to make the purchase or not. But not every site sends the SMS's, as you may have noticed in the past. Therefore, the thief kept trying to make other purchases until he found two sites that did not require any security code to process them. I have had both types of online experience myself, sometimes getting the SMS, and other times, the purchase is processed straight through without it. Anyway, obviously, the thief kept trying different sites to find one he could use without the SMS codes.Alexandra wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:30 pmThey’d send a OTP token. If Orichá isn’t the person filling out the form he can’t accept it because there’s no way for him to submit the approval form supplying the token.cardshark wrote: ↑Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:16 pm@oricha
if you received an sms to approve the transactions, then that is the point at which you decline the transactions. what did you choose? accept or decline?
It would time out unless the person committing the fraud could read the SMS, and the purchase would be rejected as unverified.
The card won't block automatically. You have to tell VISA. My phone was out of cash charge, and I was roaming in a foreign country, so I could not call it in. I still had the card in my possession, the thief merely photographed it... My only choice was to use the card to withdraw the remaining balance when I got to the next town... My main point is: the VISA security system is not effective. Many sites allow purchases without the SMS codes... Be careful...
( I really miss the days of traveler's checks... I once got a two thousand dollar refund, right here in Cambodia, after an unscrupulous concierge in Phnom Penh took two 1000 dollar Amex checks from the middle of a ten thousand dollar wad. I did not notice this until a month later. But after reporting it to Amex, they wired the money via WU, in about three weeks. That was six years ago. No longer can you use AMEX traveler's checks in most places anymore, especially in Cambodia... )
Now, I have to keep trying to get through to VISA to get them to honor their supposed anti-fraud promise. Debit and credit cards are both covered. Only "pre-paid" cards not connected to accounts are not covered by their promises of full refunds...
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
...Hannah Arendt
...Hannah Arendt
I'm not that familiar with this type of situation, but it sounds like you believe that Visa guarantees a refund in the case of fraud. In that case- contact Visa, not Canadia. It should be quite easy as you can use Skype for about 2 cents per minute. If they have 1-800 number its free with Skype. I'm guessing they will tell you that the refund policy applies only to credit cards. But please do let us know the result.
IF it would be a real Visa card, Visa does collect the spendings and once a month, you have to pay off the total (with a Charge Card) or an amount per month (with a Credit Card, hence the name Credit).
With the Canadia bank "Visa card", the amount spend goes IMMEDIATELY from your account, it's just direct debit. The only "VISA" things involved are the card authentication stuff (and the second OP has already found out, that is not really suitable for Direct Debit without further chances to charge back). There is no separate Visa account with bank statements, etc, which would be, when the card would be a Visa Credit or Charge Card.
How do I know: Well, I do have such a card and do use it 2-3 times a week, when in Cambodia.
With the Canadia bank "Visa card", the amount spend goes IMMEDIATELY from your account, it's just direct debit. The only "VISA" things involved are the card authentication stuff (and the second OP has already found out, that is not really suitable for Direct Debit without further chances to charge back). There is no separate Visa account with bank statements, etc, which would be, when the card would be a Visa Credit or Charge Card.
How do I know: Well, I do have such a card and do use it 2-3 times a week, when in Cambodia.
- Orichá
- I have some social problems
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Read this screen capture... the anti-fraud guarantee covers both VISA debit and credit cards.v12 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:02 amIF it would be a real Visa card, Visa does collect the spendings and once a month, you have to pay off the total (with a Charge Card) or an amount per month (with a Credit Card, hence the name Credit).
With the Canadia bank "Visa card", the amount spend goes IMMEDIATELY from your account, it's just direct debit. The only "VISA" things involved are the card authentication stuff (and the second OP has already found out, that is not really suitable for Direct Debit without further chances to charge back). There is no separate Visa account with bank statements, etc, which would be, when the card would be a Visa Credit or Charge Card.
How do I know: Well, I do have such a card and do use it 2-3 times a week, when in Cambodia.
And yes, since the service at Canadia is so poor, I will call VISA's fraud 1-800 number...
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
...Hannah Arendt
...Hannah Arendt
@v12 that's the difference between credit and debit.
My understanding is the main protection comes with a credit card because it is their money that has been spent (until you pay it back). With a debit card, it withdraws directly from your account so you will always be in weeker position regardless of what protections they say they offer.
Still, if visa says they protect your debit transactions from fraud, then you should contact them directly on their fraud hotline. Easy to find on the internet.
My understanding is the main protection comes with a credit card because it is their money that has been spent (until you pay it back). With a debit card, it withdraws directly from your account so you will always be in weeker position regardless of what protections they say they offer.
Still, if visa says they protect your debit transactions from fraud, then you should contact them directly on their fraud hotline. Easy to find on the internet.
What did they buy, and how was it delivered?
I suspect if you had taken more rigorous action sooner, you would have had a better chance. Now it has been quite a while and you've spent a lot of time on Canadia Bank in Phnom Penh, better to deal with Visa immediately when you got nothing from Canadia. But again, please do let us know as this is something that could happen to anyone.
Sorry to hear about the scam you experienced and that is a warning to all of us.
Sorry to hear about the scam you experienced and that is a warning to all of us.
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