Why do Westerners use the Eastern name order for Cambodian names?
Why do Westerners use the Eastern name order for Cambodian names?
Cambodia uses the Eastern name order and writes the family name before the given name for example Hun Sen. Why do languages that otherwise use the Western name order keep the Eastern order for Cambodian names? Why don't they call the Cambodian prime minister Sen Hun?
English speakers say Viktor Orbán when talking about the Hungarian prime minister. They don't say Orbán Viktor even though Hungary uses the Eastern name order just like Cambodia and Orbán is his surname.
Viktor is called Orbán Viktor in Eastern order on his Hungarian Wikipedia page and he is called Viktor Orbán in Western order on his English Wikipedia page, but nobody says Sen Hun in Western order.
Is this the same discrepancy that makes English speakers say cum-eye when they speak English instead of correctly pronouncing the English word Khmer?
English speakers say Viktor Orbán when talking about the Hungarian prime minister. They don't say Orbán Viktor even though Hungary uses the Eastern name order just like Cambodia and Orbán is his surname.
Viktor is called Orbán Viktor in Eastern order on his Hungarian Wikipedia page and he is called Viktor Orbán in Western order on his English Wikipedia page, but nobody says Sen Hun in Western order.
Is this the same discrepancy that makes English speakers say cum-eye when they speak English instead of correctly pronouncing the English word Khmer?
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I always found mildly funny when people thought Sam Raingsy's name was 'Sam'.
Apart from that, the issue has never vexed me enough to spend any time thinking about it.
Apart from that, the issue has never vexed me enough to spend any time thinking about it.
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I deal with this a lot, and I often find local (Khmer) people reversing the order themselves. This leads to much confusion, along with the way everyone seems to have an official name and a nick-name.
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It can get very confusing, and like you I find the Cambodians doing it themselves as well. Giving me a business card with their name in one order, and then their email in the opposite. I sometimes then ask staff which is the first name, and they can’t even tell me.Lucky Lucan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:35 pmI deal with this a lot, and I often find local (Khmer) people reversing the order themselves. This leads to much confusion, along with the way everyone seems to have an official name and a nick-name.
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What is the problem?
If we chose to live, work and travel in a society that traditionally puts the family name before the given name then we, if we have any cultural sensitivity or awareness at all, will do the same when addressing Cambodians until we are on first name terms with the person in question. Then, of course, and especially so in a respect/ age/relative position status/power society such as Cambodia we should be showing such differentials. Never mind the respect language of the likes of Om or Pou etc.
However, once we start integrating in to the society around us, which sadly many expats never really do to any meaningful extent because of their insularity and lack of even basic local language skills and cultural integration, then we become real friends of Cambodians and start using their first name and they ours.
In my own country, Australia, I take umbrage at being called by my family name, after all I long since ceased being a lowly member of any armed forces. I expect to be addressed by my given name or nick name by those that know me.
However, when Cambodians see my name card in the word order Given Name followed by Family Name, they all smile. Because the phonetic in Khmer for my given name means "Shy" in English. And those same Khmers of what ever gender immediately say Oh Mr. OML is not shy as he speaks to all of the pretty ladies. Long may it remain so. I am very happy being addressed as Mr Shy and with the lovely smiles that go with it.
OML
If we chose to live, work and travel in a society that traditionally puts the family name before the given name then we, if we have any cultural sensitivity or awareness at all, will do the same when addressing Cambodians until we are on first name terms with the person in question. Then, of course, and especially so in a respect/ age/relative position status/power society such as Cambodia we should be showing such differentials. Never mind the respect language of the likes of Om or Pou etc.
However, once we start integrating in to the society around us, which sadly many expats never really do to any meaningful extent because of their insularity and lack of even basic local language skills and cultural integration, then we become real friends of Cambodians and start using their first name and they ours.
In my own country, Australia, I take umbrage at being called by my family name, after all I long since ceased being a lowly member of any armed forces. I expect to be addressed by my given name or nick name by those that know me.
However, when Cambodians see my name card in the word order Given Name followed by Family Name, they all smile. Because the phonetic in Khmer for my given name means "Shy" in English. And those same Khmers of what ever gender immediately say Oh Mr. OML is not shy as he speaks to all of the pretty ladies. Long may it remain so. I am very happy being addressed as Mr Shy and with the lovely smiles that go with it.
OML
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Just choose 1, but say MISTAAH first. Works everytime.
My name is Steve Jones.
Mistaah Steve.
Mistaah Jones (and me).
My name is Steve Jones.
Mistaah Steve.
Mistaah Jones (and me).
US date system annoys me the most. I think Vietnam may employ the same arse-about-tit way also.
I find this maddening as it has implications in my work. Staff send me reports with some dates in proper format and some in USA format. Not even on different reports, the same report will have different date formats comingled. Great enjoyment trying to investigate transactions that I am not sure if occurred on July 4th or April 7th.Guest wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:13 pmUS date system annoys me the most. I think Vietnam may employ the same arse-about-tit way also.
I have only discussed this error 5 times with staff so it's not yet reasonable to expect them to send me reports without the date errors.
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Yeah very frequently it will be impossible to tell as often the family name is their fathers first name. So someone can have 2 names which could both be first names.Miguelito wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:01 pmIt can get very confusing, and like you I find the Cambodians doing it themselves as well. Giving me a business card with their name in one order, and then their email in the opposite. I sometimes then ask staff which is the first name, and they can’t even tell me.Lucky Lucan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:35 pmI deal with this a lot, and I often find local (Khmer) people reversing the order themselves. This leads to much confusion, along with the way everyone seems to have an official name and a nick-name.
Its not like us westerners whose family names last through several generations.
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I think I got a post deleted for outing OML's first name...When he actually just did it himself!
Yeah... It’s a borderline case. He’s given enough clues but didn’t spell it out himself.ផោមក្លិនស្អុយ wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:32 pmI think I got a post deleted for outing OML's first name...When he actually just did it himself!
Everybody has a post deleted sometime. It builds character
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Nothing borderline about OML. It was a fully guideline compliant post.
Nor was there ever any need to "Out" me based on simple onomatopoeic association. One does not have to be a Nobel Laureate to have worked it out. So I certainly did not Out myself.
Being clever means one can know the answer. Being wise means knowing when not to shout it from the roof tops.
And yes, being deleted does build character as those of us that have been deleted on other forums can attest.
OML
Nor was there ever any need to "Out" me based on simple onomatopoeic association. One does not have to be a Nobel Laureate to have worked it out. So I certainly did not Out myself.
Being clever means one can know the answer. Being wise means knowing when not to shout it from the roof tops.
And yes, being deleted does build character as those of us that have been deleted on other forums can attest.
OML
Wow. You are so up yourself mate.
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I don't really understand what you are on about here.Ot Mean Loi wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:47 amNothing borderline about OML. It was a fully guideline compliant post.
Nor was there ever any need to "Out" me based on simple onomatopoeic association. One does not have to be a Nobel Laureate to have worked it out. So I certainly did not Out myself.
Being clever means one can know the answer. Being wise means knowing when not to shout it from the roof tops.
And yes, being deleted does build character as those of us that have been deleted on other forums can attest.
OML
I'm also not sure your example is onomatopoeia but maybe i'm just not clever or wise... But I do try to be coherent.
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