So many unfinished buildings what was it meant for?
Many weekends many hotels are full too. Lot of local tourist in city. If you don't believe, just look the statistics. For example https://www.khmertimeskh.com/501068063/ ... stination/
Most of the unfinished buildings the construction was started in 2018-2019 already. So not further 100 000. Of course there are big projects like Ream City etc. that have launched during covid. But if we are talking about the buildings in Sihanoukville town, most were launched years ago and construction stopped in 2020.Ephrium wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:08 pmYou mis categorize the 122000 in 2019. They represented when casino was at their peak as when Xihu etc are already completed. The completed buildings including others such as new Atlantic hotel, Furi hotel are for these.
Theres limit to demand from casino industry. For instance one or two years ago the newly completed Lucky 8 (cannot remember the name )Chinese casino in Las Vegas was bankrupt, and in Saipan New Imperial Casino was already facing finances in 2017 before it closed down. 2019 with the 200 Casinos it was already peaked, bearing in mind Macau had only 45, Philippines about 50, Korea 19 etc.
So this UNFINISHED buildings represent a FURTHER 100000. What and who was it for?
If money laundering, you put the money into building these tall buildings, how to extract it out as clean money?
china_love wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:30 pmAccording to city officials in 2019 there were 100 000 Chinese living in a city where around 47 000 people was living back in 2012. Do the math. There was need for all those buildings.
Even now the buildings that are completed are over 60% occupation even though most have move out.
Loved the 'left-over chum' explanation! Accurate, graphic, and elicits the rotten smell and bad taste in the back of the throat as well! Nailed it!
It doesn't fully refute all china_love's past proud and hopeful posts, maybe in 10-15 years, Sihanoukville WILL look like ... (Fill in your image of a happy, bustling, tall building beach city, I was thinking Waikiki, or Miami, Singapore(?), but they aren't likely apt.). However, china-love, me thinks, should openly admit and accept the huge level of greed, corruption, and waste seen all around there now.
It doesn't fully refute all china_love's past proud and hopeful posts, maybe in 10-15 years, Sihanoukville WILL look like ... (Fill in your image of a happy, bustling, tall building beach city, I was thinking Waikiki, or Miami, Singapore(?), but they aren't likely apt.). However, china-love, me thinks, should openly admit and accept the huge level of greed, corruption, and waste seen all around there now.
The money invested is for some (a large part?) ill gains which would be way too difficult to spend in China. Hence the CN fraudsters turning up in the recent cyber slave Al Jazeera documentation. Prince Group was implicated, they even run their own bank....
Up untill now they can bring money in without much control. Banks are getting pressured to adopt more anti money laundering checks. So there will be records, which if done well, will only point to middelman or shell companies. Then there is informal banking within the Chinese community, Khmer money brokers, cryptocurrencies, etc. It also depends on amount and requested smokescreen. FTM often unravels small threads until such constructions come down. It can be done, it is not easy.
Up untill now they can bring money in without much control. Banks are getting pressured to adopt more anti money laundering checks. So there will be records, which if done well, will only point to middelman or shell companies. Then there is informal banking within the Chinese community, Khmer money brokers, cryptocurrencies, etc. It also depends on amount and requested smokescreen. FTM often unravels small threads until such constructions come down. It can be done, it is not easy.
Mostly it’s Chinese money but also Euro, American and other Asian countries (HK, Singapore, Thailand, Taiwan, Malaysia etc) but it’s all (was) tied to gambling.
Land prices are still high and I’ve seen prices turn upwards in the last three months.
It’s still a beach resort where people can park money. That’ll always be interesting to some.
Land prices are still high and I’ve seen prices turn upwards in the last three months.
It’s still a beach resort where people can park money. That’ll always be interesting to some.
pew, pew, pew, pew!
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https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international ... 499_4.html
LeMonde
INTERNATIONAL
The 'forbidden cities' of Chinese organized crime in Sihanoukville, Cambodia
Thai police estimate that over 1,500 Thais are still working in scam call centres in cities like Phnom Penh, Sihanoukville and Poipet, held against their will by the scam gangs, the report further said, adding that, They have already rescued 800 Thai nationals from criminal gangs in Cambodia since October 2021.
The exact workings of these rackets remain unclear, but there is mounting evidence that they are regionally coordinated and linked to other nodes of illicit activities, such as the massive drug-trafficking syndicates that operate in eastern Myanmar, the report said.
LeMonde
INTERNATIONAL
The 'forbidden cities' of Chinese organized crime in Sihanoukville, Cambodia
Thai police estimate that over 1,500 Thais are still working in scam call centres in cities like Phnom Penh, Sihanoukville and Poipet, held against their will by the scam gangs, the report further said, adding that, They have already rescued 800 Thai nationals from criminal gangs in Cambodia since October 2021.
The exact workings of these rackets remain unclear, but there is mounting evidence that they are regionally coordinated and linked to other nodes of illicit activities, such as the massive drug-trafficking syndicates that operate in eastern Myanmar, the report said.
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According to the Chinese, Sihanoukville Economic Zone has been a resounding success
"A report said the trade growth through the Chinese-invested Sihanoukville Special Economic Zone (SSEZ) in the first half of this year reflects the resilience of the zone's development.
PHNOM PENH, July 19 (Xinhua) -- The value of imports and exports passing through the Chinese-invested Sihanoukville Special Economic Zone (SSEZ) in Cambodia reached 1.37 billion U.S. dollars in the first half of 2022, up 38 percent year on year, said an operator's report on Monday."
"A report said the trade growth through the Chinese-invested Sihanoukville Special Economic Zone (SSEZ) in the first half of this year reflects the resilience of the zone's development.
PHNOM PENH, July 19 (Xinhua) -- The value of imports and exports passing through the Chinese-invested Sihanoukville Special Economic Zone (SSEZ) in Cambodia reached 1.37 billion U.S. dollars in the first half of 2022, up 38 percent year on year, said an operator's report on Monday."
The SEZ housing is located within the SEZ itself. I do not see buses transporting workers from these high class hotels to work in the SEZ. The Zhong Guo Cheng or Chinatown in Snooky yes I seen their dormitory before.
So these tall buildings still a mystery what they for. How to explain to CCP where the original millions to build is from and after built who is coming to stay.
So these tall buildings still a mystery what they for. How to explain to CCP where the original millions to build is from and after built who is coming to stay.
Anthony's Wiener wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:53 pmAccording to the Chinese, Sihanoukville Economic Zone has been a resounding success
"A report said the trade growth through the Chinese-invested Sihanoukville Special Economic Zone (SSEZ) in the first half of this year reflects the resilience of the zone's development.
PHNOM PENH, July 19 (Xinhua) -- The value of imports and exports passing through the Chinese-invested Sihanoukville Special Economic Zone (SSEZ) in Cambodia reached 1.37 billion U.S. dollars in the first half of 2022, up 38 percent year on year, said an operator's report on Monday."
Yes most workers live within SEZ or in the area nearby. But manager level staff and owners live in town. In my building we have few of them livingEphrium wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:06 pmThe SEZ housing is located within the SEZ itself. I do not see buses transporting workers from these high class hotels to work in the SEZ. The Zhong Guo Cheng or Chinatown in Snooky yes I seen their dormitory before.
So these tall buildings still a mystery what they for. How to explain to CCP where the original millions to build is from and after built who is coming to stay.
Anthony's Wiener wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:53 pmAccording to the Chinese, Sihanoukville Economic Zone has been a resounding success
"A report said the trade growth through the Chinese-invested Sihanoukville Special Economic Zone (SSEZ) in the first half of this year reflects the resilience of the zone's development.
PHNOM PENH, July 19 (Xinhua) -- The value of imports and exports passing through the Chinese-invested Sihanoukville Special Economic Zone (SSEZ) in Cambodia reached 1.37 billion U.S. dollars in the first half of 2022, up 38 percent year on year, said an operator's report on Monday."
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Yes absolutely nailed it!Guest9999 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:24 pmLoved the 'left-over chum' explanation! Accurate, graphic, and elicits the rotten smell and bad taste in the back of the throat as well! Nailed it!
Don't mention the Giant Panda in the room.
Yes, a better understanding of the Snooky situation includes both an analysis of all its parts and an overview, and the later must include the SEZ, and various port rebuilds.
My two bits.
As an overview, old-time expats might wax nostalgic for the days when we had some economic significance, Kompong Som was small, 95% Khmer, and we knew lots of adequate, reasonably inexpensive, eating, drinking, and sleeping establishments, all close to beaches where nature, not concrete, was boss. That place is long gone. However, china-love is right, what we have now has a lot of positives, even if, certainly, the current omelet broke a heck of a lot of eggs. We might not want to stay in, or even enter, some of the huge, fancy, Casino hotels, but success of various SEZ's DOES help Cambodia, and the biggest chunk of that investment is, I'm guessing, from mainland China.
Officially, USA still seeks to reduce reliance on Chinese imports. They are not much fooled by China outsourcing factories to SEA, but they slightly prefer 'Made in SEA', to direct support/direct dependance on mainland based producers. (With things like solar panels, they don't have much choice, in the very near-term, but to buy SEA. assembled Chinese products.) I guess most of the various SEZ's will continue to do well. Cambodia's workforce doesn't yet have great numbers with the right skills, but lots of Cambodians have factory experience from Thailand and elsewhere, and baby step by baby step, appropriate vocational training is up-skilling. Electricity is comparatively expensive, but new solar farms will help.
Sihanoukville isn't living the dream yet, but who knows, they might pull it off.
My two bits.
As an overview, old-time expats might wax nostalgic for the days when we had some economic significance, Kompong Som was small, 95% Khmer, and we knew lots of adequate, reasonably inexpensive, eating, drinking, and sleeping establishments, all close to beaches where nature, not concrete, was boss. That place is long gone. However, china-love is right, what we have now has a lot of positives, even if, certainly, the current omelet broke a heck of a lot of eggs. We might not want to stay in, or even enter, some of the huge, fancy, Casino hotels, but success of various SEZ's DOES help Cambodia, and the biggest chunk of that investment is, I'm guessing, from mainland China.
Officially, USA still seeks to reduce reliance on Chinese imports. They are not much fooled by China outsourcing factories to SEA, but they slightly prefer 'Made in SEA', to direct support/direct dependance on mainland based producers. (With things like solar panels, they don't have much choice, in the very near-term, but to buy SEA. assembled Chinese products.) I guess most of the various SEZ's will continue to do well. Cambodia's workforce doesn't yet have great numbers with the right skills, but lots of Cambodians have factory experience from Thailand and elsewhere, and baby step by baby step, appropriate vocational training is up-skilling. Electricity is comparatively expensive, but new solar farms will help.
Sihanoukville isn't living the dream yet, but who knows, they might pull it off.
If the money is really, really dirty, people are happy to lose 60 percent of it in construction.Ephrium wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:08 pmYou mis categorize the 122000 in 2019. They represented when casino was at their peak as when Xihu etc are already completed. The completed buildings including others such as new Atlantic hotel, Furi hotel are for these.
Theres limit to demand from casino industry. For instance one or two years ago the newly completed Lucky 8 (cannot remember the name )Chinese casino in Las Vegas was bankrupt, and in Saipan New Imperial Casino was already facing finances in 2017 before it closed down. 2019 with the 200 Casinos it was already peaked, bearing in mind Macau had only 45, Philippines about 50, Korea 19 etc.
So this UNFINISHED buildings represent a FURTHER 100000. What and who was it for?
If money laundering, you put the money into building these tall buildings, how to extract it out as clean money?
china_love wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:30 pmAccording to city officials in 2019 there were 100 000 Chinese living in a city where around 47 000 people was living back in 2012. Do the math. There was need for all those buildings.
Even now the buildings that are completed are over 60% occupation even though most have move out.
How much of the downfall of Sihanoukville is more related to the boom in crypto and novel payment system laundering?
Maybe the Chinese bumped into someone at Sharkies who was more cutting edge and they all switched to crypto channels going through Ukraine to accounts in Switzerland with various dubious crypto products or channels in between?
You missed the point. To money launder you have to explain completely how your money is obtained. The above explanation via casino gambling is listed read above. However how to explain revenue by a built hotel when you have to also explain where you got the money to build the hotel in the first place
Guest wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:37 pmIf the money is really, really dirty, people are happy to lose 60 percent of it in construction.Ephrium wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:08 pmYou mis categorize the 122000 in 2019. They represented when casino was at their peak as when Xihu etc are already completed. The completed buildings including others such as new Atlantic hotel, Furi hotel are for these.
Theres limit to demand from casino industry. For instance one or two years ago the newly completed Lucky 8 (cannot remember the name )Chinese casino in Las Vegas was bankrupt, and in Saipan New Imperial Casino was already facing finances in 2017 before it closed down. 2019 with the 200 Casinos it was already peaked, bearing in mind Macau had only 45, Philippines about 50, Korea 19 etc.
So this UNFINISHED buildings represent a FURTHER 100000. What and who was it for?
If money laundering, you put the money into building these tall buildings, how to extract it out as clean money?
china_love wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:30 pmAccording to city officials in 2019 there were 100 000 Chinese living in a city where around 47 000 people was living back in 2012. Do the math. There was need for all those buildings.
Even now the buildings that are completed are over 60% occupation even though most have move out.
How much of the downfall of Sihanoukville is more related to the boom in crypto and novel payment system laundering?
Maybe the Chinese bumped into someone at Sharkies who was more cutting edge and they all switched to crypto channels going through Ukraine to accounts in Switzerland with various dubious crypto products or channels in between?
@Ephrium "To money launder you have to explain completely how your money is obtained."
Sure, if you are inside China or the developed world. However this is Cambodia. For everything there is a middleman to make the paper-trail look legit. Even in the developed world financial specialists and LE struggle to unravel well thought out schemes. It is hard to track and map international money flows or proving ownership of (shell)companies. After all it has to survive in court or all work is wasted. Easier to go catch some dumb criminals and secure your yearly LE budget.....
"What the eyes see and the ears hear, the mind believes. Harry Houdini "
Here they do not care where the money comes from as long as they can take a cut. But this is slowly changing thus smaller players will get pinched. Do not expect these laws and regulations to hit multi-million USD or higher contracts. For those amounts and with the right connections you can do as you please.
To see how this goes in the real world have a look at the Chinese in Guyana:
Sure, if you are inside China or the developed world. However this is Cambodia. For everything there is a middleman to make the paper-trail look legit. Even in the developed world financial specialists and LE struggle to unravel well thought out schemes. It is hard to track and map international money flows or proving ownership of (shell)companies. After all it has to survive in court or all work is wasted. Easier to go catch some dumb criminals and secure your yearly LE budget.....
"What the eyes see and the ears hear, the mind believes. Harry Houdini "
Here they do not care where the money comes from as long as they can take a cut. But this is slowly changing thus smaller players will get pinched. Do not expect these laws and regulations to hit multi-million USD or higher contracts. For those amounts and with the right connections you can do as you please.
To see how this goes in the real world have a look at the Chinese in Guyana:
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