Law change allowing foreigners to own property
This whole thread (and people in gerneral moaning about property laws) is pretty silly. It costs $500 to set up a private limited company (which can be 100% foreign owned), and the company can own the property. The $500 is a flat standard fee, and the new breed of guys in the MoC aren't demaning additional bribes. The whole process takes a week. That means you can buy land using only your name and that of your company. It's safe, easy, and 100% legal, so what's the big deal?
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I recommend Sciaroni & Assoc above all the others. They have very close ties with the government and are responsible for drafting and reviewing news laws being written for Cambodia. They are clearer than any other law firm with regards to the latest laws (as they draft or review most of them), have a very clear understanding of what is practical and what is a risk, and close ties to government could be useful if you ever needed help. The Senior partner is headof many associations here, including the Law Society and has been given the title of Ayurdom by Hun Sen.Playboy wrote:If you are investing / purchasing a larger amount, go to one of the better law firms here to help you set up a land holding company to complete the purchase and manage it.
The below local law firms can all help, with varying costs and fee scales:
- Sciaroni & Ass.
- DFDL,
- Sarin and Ass.
- BNG & Ass
Full contact details can be found via:
http://www.yellowpages-cambodia.com/
DFDL runs a close second with particular expertise in acquiring rural properties, but lacking SA's close ties with people that matter.
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Bubbs, this is misleading information.Bubble T wrote:This whole thread (and people in gerneral moaning about property laws) is pretty silly. It costs $500 to set up a private limited company (which can be 100% foreign owned), and the company can own the property. That means you can buy land using only your name and that of your company.
The law and facts as they stand now are that ANY land or property ownership MUST be 51% Khmer. As offroadscholar pointed out above, that means 51% of the shareholding must be Khmer.
The new law that government is enacting allows for 100% foreign ownership of PROPERTY only.
Note there is a distinction between PROPERTY and LAND. They are not the same thing. Property refers to what is on the land (apartments, buildings, factories, etc..., not the land itself (as Playboy noted above).
I too have a 100% foreign owned ltd company. These companies can be set up in Cambodia, as mine is, or set up off-shore (some people choose to do it offshore because they perceive offshore companies can have the benefit of offshore legal protections).
A 100% foreign owned private ltd company is NOT able to purchase land without 51% Khmer participation and until this new law is enacted they are not able to purchase property on land.
They ARE able to take out land concession agreements or lease agreements with the govt to hold lease rights over land for either 77 or 99 years, or take out private lease agreements on land or property with local land or property owners.
If you've been told anything different and think your 100% foreign owned company holds the property or land title rights for something you've purchased, I suggest you go pay an independent professional for a second opinion. Sounds like you've been duped.
I wouldnt call it a standard flat fee.. if its not bribes, then its graft. I dont remember ever getting a receipt for my payment, do you?The $500 is a flat standard fee, and the new breed of guys in the MoC aren't demaning additional bribes.
Oh, I forgot, I wasn't paying bribes or graft, I was paying them to do their job, because their government salary is so small.
Can get done in one day actually, if you know the right people. Funny how quick the MoC and the tax office can work together when they want to.The whole process takes a week.
Its wrong and the big deal is, unless you get proper advice, you could lose tens of thousands of dollars with no legal recourse.It's safe, easy, and 100% legal, so what's the big deal?
Bubblet, maybe you should stick to computers.bubblet wrote:This whole thread (and people in gerneral moaning about property laws) is pretty silly. It costs $500 to set up a private limited company (which can be 100% foreign owned), and the company can own the property. The $500 is a flat standard fee, and the new breed of guys in the MoC aren't demaning additional bribes. The whole process takes a week. That means you can buy land using only your name and that of your company. It's safe, easy, and 100% legal, so what's the big deal?
Or better yet, try and get a real education, why don't you ?
Has anybody currently on the ground noticed any slowing down/fall in cambo property values linked to the subprime crisis, or has the local market been totally unaffected ?
How do you think the current condominium projects could influence the market ? Is an oversupply of high range accommodation likely or even possible ?
My mistake on the land, but as it stands a 100% foreign owned company CAN already own property (just checked with one of Sciaroni's guys).
And yes, i did get a receipt for my $500, along with the name card of the woman i paid, and an official seeming document that stated the official prices of different types of registration. The registering itself only took a day as you said, but to do anything (like open a company account), you need your MoC stamp, which takes more than a day.
Another piece of advice i got from Sciaroni's guy is that the 51% doesn't have to belong to a single Khmer. You could have 2 Khmers each with 26% and keep 48% for yourself, leaving the business more than 51% Khmer owned, but with you still; as the majority shareholder (as long as one of them doesn't sell his shares to the other)
And yes, i did get a receipt for my $500, along with the name card of the woman i paid, and an official seeming document that stated the official prices of different types of registration. The registering itself only took a day as you said, but to do anything (like open a company account), you need your MoC stamp, which takes more than a day.
Another piece of advice i got from Sciaroni's guy is that the 51% doesn't have to belong to a single Khmer. You could have 2 Khmers each with 26% and keep 48% for yourself, leaving the business more than 51% Khmer owned, but with you still; as the majority shareholder (as long as one of them doesn't sell his shares to the other)
I am, by trying my best in the real world. Why don't you get a real life instead of being so bitter about everyone else's?logos wrote:and get a real education why don't you
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The information about property ownership is interesting but I think secondary for potential investors. As already stated a good law firm can navigate the ownership issues for a fee.
To me the primary issue of property ownership is the current market value. The November - December property guide had a villa for sale in DP for $850K. In the latest guide it had gone up to $950K. This is probably the only property market where sellers increase the price if the property does not sell. the same happens with leases. I was going to lease a building for $500. It had been empty for a year because he had been holding out gor more. He had offered it to various people for between $500 and $800. The owner decided to wait and got $700.
Obviously getting no income from the Property for a year negates the higher price he eventually got. The whole real estate industry needs a reliable body to provide price indicators.
To me the primary issue of property ownership is the current market value. The November - December property guide had a villa for sale in DP for $850K. In the latest guide it had gone up to $950K. This is probably the only property market where sellers increase the price if the property does not sell. the same happens with leases. I was going to lease a building for $500. It had been empty for a year because he had been holding out gor more. He had offered it to various people for between $500 and $800. The owner decided to wait and got $700.
Obviously getting no income from the Property for a year negates the higher price he eventually got. The whole real estate industry needs a reliable body to provide price indicators.
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Good point.The information about property ownership is interesting but I think secondary for potential investors. As already stated a good law firm can navigate the ownership issues for a fee.
To me the primary issue of property ownership is the current market value.
Yep, we seem to have established that the pending new law will allow condo ownership for foreigners and land ownership is possible through a good law firm.
Remains to be seen if the new law will prop up realestate prices with an influx of foreign buying.
Perhaps not, given its only the condo market that will be affected and we dont even have a condo market yet.
Interestingly, I see a mob called BS realestate is building a condo development in Snooky, on Omui St. (the back way to Otres beach)
Probably in anticipation of the law change to allow foreign buyers.
At least its near the beach.
As for Condo's in Phnom Penh, what lifestyle positives are going to attract foreign buyers there, cheap nightlife ?
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The market will determine what’s a reasonable price for all the developments going up. It reminds me a lot of the Docklands development in London in the 80's. The visionaries all got burned but what was left was a great asset for those who came later. Many developments in Docklands remained dormant and uncompleted for years.
Phnom Penh does not currently seem to have a compelling case for all the top end high rise and residential development at the moment. I assume most of the buyers would be wealthy Khmers. I understand the Korean retirement market but I am sure little, if any, effective market research has been undertaken. It is Sunny and warm compared to Korea.
As many Asians consider rivers to be the very lifeblood of humanity then the Position of Phnom Penh may also be considered a special location. Gold Tower residents will have great views of one of the Earths greatest confluences.
Being based in Cambodia at this stage of its development is exciting. I also consider it a privilege. There are so many opportunities, both for making and losing money.
Phnom Penh does not currently seem to have a compelling case for all the top end high rise and residential development at the moment. I assume most of the buyers would be wealthy Khmers. I understand the Korean retirement market but I am sure little, if any, effective market research has been undertaken. It is Sunny and warm compared to Korea.
As many Asians consider rivers to be the very lifeblood of humanity then the Position of Phnom Penh may also be considered a special location. Gold Tower residents will have great views of one of the Earths greatest confluences.
Being based in Cambodia at this stage of its development is exciting. I also consider it a privilege. There are so many opportunities, both for making and losing money.
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You'd think that the investment in high end condo's etc would need to be matched proportionally with investment in industry to eventually provide a working middleclass that can afford such properties.Phnom Penh does not currently seem to have a compelling case for all the top end high rise and residential development at the moment
Previous remarks on this thread that GT42 was having trouble selling its units suggests the developers might be getting ahead of themselves?
Would be interesting to know the most recent figures (2007?) of FDI in Cambodia , and what percentage of that comprised of residential real estate developments. Hopefully a low percentage.
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